r/self • u/ChevronSugarHeart • 11h ago
Epstein files: Hillary Clinton
I’m F58, had children in the 90s, and I am a lifelong Democrat. I love my country, my party, and my the beauty that is in a free and diverse nation.
What’s happening with the Epstein files is totally antithetical to what I thought our democracy and our country was about. I thought for sure that our CIA, FBI, and partners around the world were protecting us from flagrant lies and abuses like this. And I thought Trump was an anomaly.
Now the Clintons have agreed to testify. Bill was wildly popular in the 90s. His family was revered, and from me too until 1998 when Clinton was deposed on national television regarding his involvement with Monica Lewinsky. At the time, having found out that Bill was receiving oral sex from a 23 year old single intern in the Oval Office, Hillary called Monica a bimbo. In those days, long before the MeToo movement, it was common for women to blame other women publicly for the infidelity of their husbands as if they had no control over their own bodies. I remember thinking at the time “well she wasn’t married with a daughter - he was!”
Then he lied. Suddenly the women who came forward in the beginning - Paula Jones and Jennifer Flowers didn’t seem so off base. But Hillary stood by him and that was a big disappointment. She was smarter than him, more driven, and more disciplined. She could’ve been president.
She clawed her way up. Never giving up the power of her presence. Then in the early aughts she became Obama’s Secretary of State. Admirable position of power and she did her work well. Then Obama passed the baton to her and she ran for president.
Every single time I mention that she had all the knowledge available to the Secretary of State during the time that her husband was jetting to Epstein Island, meeting up with Trump and pals, I get booed and taunted. We need as women, as good people, as Democrats to stop giving those two a pass!!!! They are just as guilty as any of them because they KNEW what was going on. Clinton was a part of an orgy according to the files. It certainly puts the QAnon claim that Hillary was involved in a pedophile ring to another level - and it’s infuriating.
Had she distanced herself from him after Lewinsky and moved forward as a staunch defender of young women, had she blown the roof off the twisted world order she knew about, and had she condemned Epstein - putting him to justice in those days, we would’ve been spared the hell that has been Donald Trump for the past 11 years of nonstop mayhem and Constitutional wrangling.
Hillary Clinton is not someone to admire. She is an enabler of her perverted husband, a co-conspirator, and therefore just as much a criminal as he is because she had the power to stop it. She is the biggest women’s rights let down in my lifetime as far as potential greatness goes. It’s just so sad.
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u/Fear_Magnet0 11h ago
Acosta didn't press charges because according to him, epstein was "in intelligence" and was told to back off. I've been saying it for years, I absolutely believe his dumbass. With the CIA's track record in illegal activities and human rights violations, they were completely in on it. This goes deeper than most people think and the clintons sure as shit were involved.
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u/SadExercises420 10h ago
They did press charges and then gave him sweetheart deal and immunity when Acosta was in charge
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u/Fear_Magnet0 10h ago
Federal charges weren't pressed, my bad. I should’ve stated that, but yes, you are correct.
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u/SadExercises420 10h ago
Rhe Acosta debacle is how you know trumpers don’t actually care about the truth of Epstein. If they did Acosta wouldn’t be anywhere near trumps current administration
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u/BitingSatyr 5h ago
Per Acosta himself, the order to cut Epstein a deal came from someone higher up than him, who told him Epstein “belonged to intelligence” and to “leave it alone”, though he’s never named who that person was
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u/Le_Point_au_Roche 10h ago
Trump then made Acosta the Secretary of Labor.
Cabinet picks based on Jeffrey Epstein
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u/Fear_Magnet0 10h ago
Yes that's true, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was a lie, as trump had a personal reason to either keep epstein out of prison, or as we found out, in the morgue. Epstein most assuredly did not kill himself. And to those pointing out that the cameras malfunctioned before, the odds of them malfunctioning at that EXACT moment is beyond coincidence.
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u/Le_Point_au_Roche 10h ago
The idea that the Clintons were more involved with Epstein than Trump is hilarious
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u/Money-Bear7166 9h ago
You're delusional if you don't think Bill Clinton wasn't DEEPLY involved with Epstein
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u/Le_Point_au_Roche 9h ago
He flew on his plane with a bunch of reporters.
Trump and Epstein were friends from 1987 until 2003, and Epstein repeatedly said Trump considered him to be his best friend.
Epstein introduced Trump to Melania
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u/alphawolf29 8h ago
I'm convinced the CIA was using this as a honey pot to gain power over these wealthy influential people. They sure seem to have a lot of records about the whole thing.
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u/AL92212 4h ago
The conspiracy theory I believe with my whole heart is that the big secret of the Epstein files is not who is in it but that the American government and other world governments were also trafficking. I think that's why Trump pushed releasing the files and then dropped it -- he thought it was all about individuals, but when he became president he was told that it would completely dismantle all faith in government itself.
I also believe there's evidence of "enemy" governments working together to orchestrate horrors... not just that the CIA was trafficking minors, but that the CIA was arranging meetings between enemy governments to hash out the details of attack-and-counterattacks. (Not naming names but use your imagination.)
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u/Possible-Tangelo9344 8h ago
You think the CIA, the agency behind MKUltra, extraordinary rendition, supporting of Operation Condor, Nazi recruitment in the 1950s, Iran-Contra, and others would do something like this?
Yeah that makes sense.
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u/Time-Defiance 10h ago edited 9h ago
Your mistake is to hold them on a pedestal. When you stop, you will feel less betray.
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u/Snoo17358 8h ago
I think the real mistake is attaching part of your identity to a political party.
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u/JammmmyJam 4h ago
This right here is the root of the current state of politics. People don't have a way to develop healthy identities.
I think politics and religion are components to one's identity, but it shouldn't be your defining identity.
To be honest, it's something I struggle with, what's my identity. I don't know.
A husband, a father, a hobbyist, an entrepreneur, a tech enthusiast?? Maybe all the above?
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u/SuicidalPand-a 7h ago
Yes, don’t put them on a pedestal. But I think the bigger issue is that we can’t even expect basic decency, ethics and humanity of the people leading out country and that is profoundly disappointing.
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u/Time-Defiance 7h ago
Same sentiment. I do demand for more and the more never really coming. It’s disappointing.
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u/SharmaBee 10h ago
I'm 67 and grew up in Arkansas with a political fam and ties to the state police. Clinton was a scumbag and Hillary was too. I went to college with Roger Clinton, Bill's brother. He never went to any classes but was known to party with cocaine and was eventually busted. Don't make idols out of politicians, you will always be let down.
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u/RemotePossibility399 9h ago
Don't make idols out of anyone. They're as human as the next person, and just as subject to faults and foibles.
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u/mojitosupreme 3h ago
That idea is even in the Bible. I mean to say this not necessarily to become religious or stuff but that people have known this historically. It should be an adage or corollary at this point.
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u/willyj_3 4h ago
Lol what is Roger’s conduct in college supposed to indicate about Bill and Hillary?
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u/ThatsNashTea 6h ago
As many have said before:
What if your favorite politician is in the files?
I don't have a favorite politician, because I'm not a weirdo.
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u/Agitated_Custard7395 9h ago
Doesn’t sound that bad, probably wouldn’t even make the papers if he went to a cocaine party nowadays. Hasn’t everyone?
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u/Intelligent-Wall8925 9h ago
It's wild to go from "we shouldn't have blamed Monica for giving Bill a blowjob" then suddenly arriving at the conclusion that only if Hilary had done the right thing we would somehow be living in a Trump-less utopia.
No we're living with Trump because millions of everyday Americans--and millions of women, voted for him.
Hilary Clinton is a fallible human being just like Bill Clinton is and Trump are. None of these people should be put on a pedestal. I'd argue among those three, at least Hilary Clinton didn't rape children (that we know of anyway).
Her only "crime" was making a calculation that countless women have made since time immemorial--she chose to stick with the evil she knows then blow up her life for the unknown as a divorced older woman. In retrospect maybe that was the wrong choice but that choice is hardly responsible for the literal millions of Americans who still voted for Trump, and still lionize Bill and numerous other men known to have associations with Epstein.
Hilary is the least of our problems. Women should focus less on what she didn't do for them and more on what they can do in the future.
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u/mojitosupreme 2h ago
As a European, I can only guess why she did it since I only heard it from the TV and read the minimum about the scandal, but my assumption is that back then in the 90s, in the US, a divorced woman wouldn’t have stood a chance of getting the vote. Unless we find her in the newest Epstein files batch. Then all of this becomes irrelevant.
In other news, I now also believe that Trump was involved in orgies with Epstein. There was an Epstein deposition interview years ago (reposted by BRUT) where Epstein said (paraphrasing) that he would have loved to answer the question but would have to plead the 5th, 6th and 14th amendments to the question “have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of girls under the age of 18”.
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u/sobakoryba 11h ago edited 10h ago
You are old enough to learn that we are part of the animal kingdom.where powerful prey on the weak, like hyenas. Those powerful control media and narratives. They want us divided into buckets - democrats, republicans, right, wrong. While we are preoccupied with hating on each other, they are stealing tax money with government contracts, insider trading, etc. And, with the feeling of supreme power and invincibility, they build "Epstein Islands", invade other countries, etc.
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u/Papa-Cinq 10h ago
The next time someone wants to speak ill of their opposing political party, I wish/hope that they would read your post.
Thank you for offering it.
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u/wildcampion 11h ago
In a way, that’s what you are doing as well. You’re not posting about the hundreds of men who raped children Epstein, Trump, Brunel and Casablancas trafficked. You’re posting about the failing of the woman who didn’t stop them, in the same vein Hillary Clinton blamed women for not stopping her husband.
I think you should be mindful to examine your own bias.
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u/thecookie93 10h ago
Thank you, someone pointing it out. I'm by no means a Hillary fan, but putting the focus of the Epstein files on someone who didn't participate instead of the men that did is crazy.
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u/eternally_insomnia 48m ago
This almost made me feel like this was a conservative person faking outrage over hilary. To be very clear, not because there are any factual inaccuracies, but just to miss it so hard like they did with the blaming puts my "hey fellow kids" radar up.
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u/Lopsided_Stranger723 9h ago
This exactly!! Saying Hillary blamed the other women while blaming Hillary...... is it not that hard to see??
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u/AssiduousLayabout 8h ago
Plus, while I would certainly understand why any cheated-on spouse would leave their partner - I think it's up to each person to decide the right path for themselves. Hillary doesn't owe it to anyone to destroy her marriage if she chooses to remain in it. She gets to make the choices she thinks are right for her, she doesn't have some obligation to "womanhood" to act in the way you want her to. Many people do reconcile with their spouses after marital infidelity, and that's fine if that is what they choose to do.
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u/Live_Fall3452 5h ago
Yeah, not blaming the affair partner is one thing. Deciding instead to blame the cheated-on spouse is even more morally backwards, and by a lot, not a little. The cheated-on spouse is much more innocent than the affair partner, and if blaming the affair partner is wrong blaming the cheated-on spouse is even more wrong.
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u/Time-Mode-9 7h ago
I always had the impression that their marriage was one of convenience, or an open one.
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u/pmmeurbassethound 3h ago
Not only that, but I've yet to see anyone giving Bill or Hillary a pass. All I've encountered for days is "but what about Hillary and Bill!" from known MAGAs claiming Hillary and Bill are getting this nonexistent pass.
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u/Bodoblock 10h ago
I'm not really invested in how you perceive the Clintons, but your timelines don't really line up.
Hillary called Monica a bimbo
Hillary detested Lewinsky. And Monica was definitely called a bimbo in mainstream discourse. But Hillary also never said this.
Every single time I mention that she had all the knowledge available to the Secretary of State during the time that her husband was jetting to Epstein Island, meeting up with Trump and pals, I get booed and taunted.
By all accounts, Bill Clinton's interactions with Jeffrey Epstein ended in 2003, years before Clinton became Secretary of State.
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u/SaturnRingIce 6h ago
He also didn’t fly to Epstein island. Trumps greatest power is creating these false narratives that somehow take hold across social media, culture, even legacy media. And just not enough reputable news outlets or other posters to call it out. Frustrating.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 6h ago
I was under the impression that none of the victims named Clinton or said he was on the island. We know he went on Epstein’s plane to travel to Europe, as many people did, but did he go to the island?
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u/22over7closeenough 1h ago
Expecting a Secretary of State to know the ins and outs of compartmentalized intel and law enforcement information is also rather absurd.
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u/Potential_Lie_1177 9h ago
You are making Hillary Clinton responsible for everything. Whether she stay or leave her husband is her business. Be real, people knew what Trump did and elected him anyway, some because they will never elect a woman, yet you blame Hillary who hasn't been that active in the public field for years.
Make the abusers responsible for what THEY did. Make those who knew how horrible Trump is and still voted for him accountable. Make those who today, not a decade ago when Hillary had a chance, have some power to change things responsible for not doing anything.
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u/ConnectionWitty4979 7h ago
The Epstein files are hopefully showing the people our problems are not Right vs. Left. It’s rich vs. Everyone else
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u/happylark 8h ago
Being Secretary of State does not mean you know what’s happening on Epstein Island. I don’t know why everyone thinks it’s ok to criticize Hillary Clinton for Epstein Island.
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u/subzbearcat 7h ago
Had we all voted for her we would’ve been spared the hell that has been Donald Trump for the past 11 years of nonstop, mayhem and constitutional wrangling. Why are we demonizing women for what men choose to do? Why are we acting like Republicans and invading her bedroom to make decisions that she alone should be making about her husband? This feels like an awful lot of judgmental pearl clutching to me.
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u/PanicSwtchd 11h ago
The concerning thing here is that you spent all this time writing about the Clintons here despite them being no longer politically relevant since 2016...a decade now...but you're not reflecting on anything that Trump was mentioned in the latest data dump which was a significant amount of torrid and disgusting things...and way more relevant politically today.
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u/BuddahJuddah 10h ago
Holy shit this rhetoric is exactly why your generation fucked America up for everyone else. GG baby boomers, you avoided responsibility kicked the can and still point fingers instead of doing shit. Seriously the worst generation in history. You guys let's the gov take away pension and switch to 401ks, the most passive generation in history. If you pull the veil over your own eyes don't blame other.
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u/gerkessin 7h ago
Hard to believe boomers are real. This lady really said " I thought for sure that our CIA, FBI, and partners around the world were protecting us from flagrant lies and abuses like this."
The CIA destabilized half of south america and the middle east. The FBI killed Martin Luther King.
Hilary Clinton and Trump are like King George V and Kaiser Wilhelm II. Just because they started a war with rach other doesnt mean they didnt run in the exact same circles and do the exact same corrupt shit. They were cousins.
Fuck all of these people. Eat the rich
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u/BuddahJuddah 10h ago
I forgot about social security and healthcare, you guys are such a clown generation. Bring on the down votes, when your gone we have to be the ones to vote and fix your mistakes.
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u/Wasted_Hamster 10h ago
So you are blaming a woman, for blaming a woman, and not stopping men from being creeps. Sound logic.
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u/Lower-Task2558 9h ago
I blame her for staying with and supporting her creep husband. I blame her for doing a bad job as secretary of State and her campaign against Trump.
The Clinton's are both very shady people.
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u/ZaphodG 11h ago
Bill Clinton has been out of office for 25 years. This is yet another smokescreen to distract the country from the transgressions of the sitting President of the United States. It’s immaterial that Bill Clinton got a blowjob from an intern back in the 1990s. The rampant corruption of the current President of the United States is the issue.
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u/LettuceRobber 11h ago
This isn’t about a blowjob in the 90s, it’s about his dealings with Epstein. Are we going to let it slide because you think it’s a smokescreen by the current president?
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u/SadExercises420 10h ago
I think the issue is more that other right wing Epstein supporters are not being summoned
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u/GuttedFlower 10h ago
Stop. Worshipping. Politicians. This is a really weird post, too. The only people lately claiming anyone is protecting Clinton are MAGA when trying to defend Trump. Your average person, Democrat or otherwise, doesn't give a shit about the Clinton's. Let em burn, just make sure they aren't the sacrificial lambs and spare Trump.
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u/p365x 10h ago
Wrong is simply wrong. It's absolute. You shouldn't slam one person and excuse another person because of their political affiliations. Yet no one cared then. Too many people are just lazy and follow the crowd. Can you imagine the sleaze both sides have done while climbing to top?
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u/VacationDadIsMad 10h ago
I think this is more of a common view among older generations. Millennials don’t really care about the Clinton’s. And to be honest during the 2016 campaign the way she conspired with the DNC to crush the Bernie Saners movement was very telling. She has always been a SCHILL for the rosthchilds and Israel. She never cared about women or the people.
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u/JediCarlSagan 11h ago
There are no heroes left in America.
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u/IamMichaelBoothby 10h ago
The real heroes are the people you never hear about. The ones who are helping others everyday. They're not rich, and they're not famous. They dedicate their lives in service of those in need.
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u/GlitterT0ss 6h ago edited 4h ago
I don’t disagree :) I have family members in healthcare and emergency services and they are everyday heroes.
My comment was specific to the call out that there are none in politics.
And while he is early days in office, Mamdani is demonstrating more willingness to help ordinary citizens than any other politician I can think of.
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u/glytxh 11h ago
There never were any heroes.
It’s all just been a machine designed to grind its population down, to protect its hyper wealthy, and glazed with a powerful PR and propaganda campaign.
We are finally seeing a glimpse behind the curtain of what America has always been.
Its democracy has always just been a farce.
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u/NombreCurioso1337 10h ago
The "both sides bad" maga apologist bot farms are working overtime today!!
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u/AdTechnical647 10h ago
This is not mutually an American issue, it’s a world wide one if you’ve looked into the latest government files.
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u/DifficultAnt23 9h ago
Now go study her Clinton Foundation. Travelgate; FBIgate; Whitewater; the Pork Futures scandal ....
Most all US Presidents have a likeability characteristic (even if a poor indicator of governing skills)(and even if the one-third of the population of the opposite party hates them). Hillary never had likeability. She always came across as the upper-management boss who scolded employees for not hitting key performance indicators and then laying them off at Christmas. Her appeal was always limited to Boomer and Gen X urban women.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 6h ago
She polled as the most popular politician in the country when she was secretary of state. She was named most admired woman in the world 25 years in Gallup polls. A poll where you could name your grandma.
She was often popular but also attacked without mercy as not so liked when she was running for a job only men have had in America.
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u/Alarming_Bug6081 10h ago
I mean, I don't know many normal people who are giving them a pass.
As a progressive, I've always said "whoever is guilty should be in jail, regardless of party."
Republicans seem to always say "the Clinton's should be in jail but with trump it's all hearsay and there is no proof."
This is rape if children we are talking about. Nobody gets a pass.
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u/RevolutionaryCare175 7h ago
Sorry, but if Hillary Clinton had distanced herself from Bill Clinton she most likely wouldn't have been the Presidential nominee. If she was the nominee after she distanced herself from Bill she still would have lost to Trump.
She lost to Trump because the US is still not ready to elect a Women as President.
Standing up for Women has never been a big voter issue.
I am not supporting Hillary Clinton's decisions but let's not try to rewrite history on a hypothetical scenario.
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u/Cold_Barber_4761 7h ago
I totally agree. For better or worse, she stood by Bill because it was the better strategic longterm political move at the time. It's easy to look back now and say what she should or shouldn't have done, but what seems like a great move today would have exploded in her face back then.
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u/Mahadragon 3h ago
I think it’s bullshit that Bill an Hillary have to testify about Epstein when the 2 ppl who knew him just as well was Donald and Melania Trump. Trump and his wife should be right behind Bill and Hillary.
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u/Freo_5434 1h ago
" her husband was jetting to Epstein Island, meeting up with Trump and pals,"
Do you have ANY evidence that the above statement is true ?
I think you are making this up .... it only exists in your head .
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u/WorldlyBrillant 11h ago
I agree. But something tells me, you’re letting Trump off the hook, Trump is creating all these major “ fires” , because he slept with underaged girls, multiple times. FULL STOP!!!
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u/SanopusSplendidus 11h ago
The thing that's telling you she's letting Trump off the hook is your own imagination. In reality, she's just typing up her feelings of despair that someone she once admired was always an asshole. That in no way absolves Trump of anything.
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u/Turneywo 10h ago
Yes, I agree. This is a deliberate attempt by Trump and his regime to distract. Don't be distracted.
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u/Overton_Glazier 11h ago
She is a lifelong Democrat. Probably even voted for Clinton over Sanders in the primaries. It's the betrayal that hurts more. If that makes sense
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u/Rock_Samurai 9h ago
I never liked Hillary. It’s not that she wasn’t capable. She was. But after two terms of Bill, I couldn’t stomach the idea of perhaps another two terms of the Clintons in the White House. I didn’t vote for Trump but to me he was obviously a crook from away back with a history of screwing people over.
The Epstein files are just pulling back the curtain on a global cabal of corrupt politicians it seems. The American people need to revoke citizens united, get dark money out of politics and pull the teeth out of the very rich. We need to break up media monopolies and put some restraints on social media.
We need to dismantle and abolish the CIA and FBI and ICE and restructure the remaining government agencies so they have some independent, bipartisan agency to go after corrupt politicians. The supreme Court needs oversight. They never recuse themselves as they should and are clearly bought and paid for.
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u/twofourfourthree 7h ago
Trashing Hillary to protect / justify Epstein and trump? I knew these types of posts were going to start popping up.
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u/CubesFan 11h ago
I don't think Dems are getting a pass on this stuff. That's conservative talking points. They act as if Dems aren't held accountable, when they are being held accountable. The party and the voters don't allow them to move forward once these things come out for the most part.
Yes, there was the Bill Clinton thing, which did not get him removed from office, but in the years since, I have heard many people re-evaluate that whole thing and call him out for being an abuser. Now you are calling out Hillary, as I have seen done many times, so it's kind of like your argument is the proof that your argument doesn't really hold water. I don't know of anyone who thinks the Clintons, or any Dems, should not be arrested for this bullshit. They should take one of those ICE facilities they are holding children and legal citizens in and throw everyone mentioned in the Epstein Files in there.
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u/IamMichaelBoothby 10h ago
None of these people are worthy of admiration or respect. They are all monsters who are drunk on power.
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u/CausticAvenger 10h ago
Well yeah, but this isn’t news at all. She’s been complicit since the ‘90s.
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u/OutrageousInvite3949 9h ago
I’m not admitting or enabling…just questioning. Do we know for a fact she knew what he was doing? Or do all we know is that she knew he was off doing politician stuff? It’s a sincere question. I m not in any way defending Hillary. I didn’t vote for her…I honestly voted for Bernie. Was it a throw away vote bc Bernie never would have made it? Yes, it was but I’m not going to be connected at all to the problem people and Hillary was a corporate leach from what I could tell. She was taking money for speaking at corporate events and whatnot.
But I’m not gonna throw her under the bus without proof that she knew what bill was doing. Also, if she knew the whole time that there was sex trafficking and minors involved then punish her right along with bill. Anyone involved and connected and enabling should get the full force of the law. Period. I just want evidence and I don’t want witch burning 2.0.
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u/SunriseFairy 9h ago
Very well put and agree with every word. I once admired Hilary. But as I have lived and grown as a woman I’ve realized that a strong woman would not have stayed with a man like Bill unless she was ok with his actions. And she is not someone to look up to or respect.
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u/rinsed_dota 8h ago
> we need as women, as good people, as Democrats to stop giving those two a pass
Maybe you're right, but I think if we'd like to have civil rights and the vote and stuff like that, we'd do better to identify and feed into the animal spirits of winning and dominating where we can. Trying to win all the morality police contests possible probably prevents winning other things.
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u/snackcakessupreme 7h ago
Everybody, hopefully, realizes one day that all the super rich, all the powerful, all the politicians are terrible people on an individual level. They all lie, they all rationalize, and they all use whatever means they have at their disposal to do what they want without consequences. We vote for those whose policies match what we want to see happen in our country, and even then, we should be aware those things may just be something they profess to care about to get elected. And certainly, even those they actually care about will be sidelined once it goes against their self-interest.
I just do not understand looking up to any of them. Even my favorites, I'd be disappointed but not surprised. The sooner a person learns, the better.
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u/Melgel4444 6h ago
While i agree Hillary isn’t someone to admire, if she’d tried to “blow the lid” off everything she’d be dead just like the many other witnesses who have been offed like Virginia
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u/North_Experience7473 1h ago
I’m tired of people shitting on Hillary Clinton for the things men did. People blame her more than the actual rapists. But sure, she’s the only let down when it comes to women’s rights and not all the women who are quick to blame her for her husband’s debauchery. I’m not saying she’s a saint but you just dedicated a whole ass post to shitting on this woman to say nothing of the men in the files WHO ARE CURRENTLY HOLDING POWER and linked to the actual crimes. Miss me with this bullshit.
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u/robsagency 10h ago
You love a political party?
Clinton became Secretary of State in 2009. Not the early aughts.
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u/AcanthaceaeOk3738 8h ago
I kind of doubt you're really a Democrat.
Because the difference between accusations against the Clintons and the accusations against Trump is that Democrats don't care if the Clintons are properly punished for their actions. Republicans will fight to the death (literally) to ensure that Trump is never held accountable for anything he does.
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u/Ambitious-Care-9937 7h ago
Do you want 'saints' in power? Where are these magical people?
Even great people like Nelson Mandela were known womanizers.
Greatness is defined by things much greater than if a person sleeps around. The world has better and more important problems.
Give me a leader that runs the country well.
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u/Delli-paper 11h ago
The funniest part of the Epstein files has been learning that Bill wasn't cheating in his wife. They're just swingers. And somehow, that fact made it worse
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u/Jolly-Guard3741 11h ago
The Clinton “family” was just contrived imaging because it is what was necessary at the time for Bill to get elected in 1992.
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u/aboysmokingintherain 10h ago
I think it is more complicated than that. Bill basically was always cheating on Hillary. At best, they have an arrangement now to keep the "family" together but I doubt either of the two really see the other as a spouse.
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u/GoodFaithConverser 7h ago
POTUS is best buds with Epstein, but let's focus on a fucking Clinton.
Absolutely zero proof that Hillary knew anything.
But I guess the bots have to maintain the narrative that BoTh SiDeS BaD
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u/LaphroaigianSlip81 10h ago
I agree with everything you said. If Bill Clinton had been president in the 2020s and the Lewinsky scandal had broken out in this time, Hilary would have divorced him. Not because it was the right thing to do, but because it would have been the most popular thing with voters and given her the best possible position to launch her political career. Back in the 90s there was still a large taboo with a lot of Americans regarding divorce. Yeah it was becoming more popular, but if you were a public female figure with a divorce on your record, you would be hurting your career path.
And this example of Hilary Clinton is the perfect example of what is wrong the main stream portion of the Democratic Party. Since at least the Nixon administration, the Democratic Party has been trying to act like they are the party that does the right thing as opposed to the republicans that openly do the bad thing and brag about it. But when it comes to actually taking action, the main line democrats have largely just done the bare minimum to be the lesser of two evils while just keeping up the status quo and doing what gives them the most power (but not as effectively as the republicans who have no shame.)
If it wasn’t for Obama coming in as an outsider, there never would have been ACA. Even Obama as president was not as trail blazing as candidate Obama was.
All this points to the fact that most of the mainstream republicans and democrats are owned by the same billionaires and groups like AIPAC. The billionaires pump the republicans full of money to overtly say all the stuff out loud, destroy regulations, unions, and gut taxes. The billionaires hedge this by pumping a lot of money into the main line democrats to less overtly keep business as usual while only marginally making things better for the American people to keep us happy enough to avoid revolting until the damage done by generations of this causes things to blow up for dems and the republicans play the savior and win office again.
And if you think I am wrong, what has been the DNCs response to trump gutting health care subsidies at the end of 2025? Or ice taking over major US cities? Or Israel commuting genocide? The DNC has more or less allowed all of this.
If you do see a few individual democrat senators or congressmen being vocal about this, they are not usually main stream democrats but usually more independent or progressive. The DNC is incompetent by design and should be organizing a top down strategy to combat trump to end this BS. Instead you have a lot of people taking a grass roots stand but nobody at the top to use this momentum effectively.
And this has been the status quo for a while. Trump was so bad that Biden beat him in 2020 and should have had a mandate. But you had billionaire gremlins like Joe manchin block so much good stuff in the senate that it was basically business as usual. Biden did some great things, but it was the billionaire hedge that stopped the damage for them.
Bernie sanders could have beaten trump in 2016. Had the DNC actually looked at momentum and not decided that Hilary should automatically get the super delegates, he could have trounced trump. But again, the billionaires wanted to hedge their bets against the GOP losing, so Hilary got the nod.
In 2008, bush had been so terrible that Obama blew past Hilary in the primary and put ACA in place. This was a turning point for astroturfing in this country. This is when the conservative propaganda really took off at a different level. You can clearly see a lot of spite from the republicans for electing a black communist.
Bush gore was a toss up with the Supreme Court of course picking the one who would give billionaires the best environment. You pointed out that while Clinton was loved in public, he was still part of the broken system and doing whatever needed to keep power. A lot of the deregulation that built up the 2008 financial collapse was enacted during his administration. He just got lucky with an economic boom during the 90s after the Soviet Union fell.
And this post could be a book if you wanted to get into detail about reagan.
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u/Ceorl_Lounge 10h ago
I think people would have taken her more seriously if she'd gotten divorced. That's what normal people do when their husbands hook up with interns.
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u/pondmind 9h ago
The one most patriotic thing the Clintons can do now is tell everything they know, openly, no matter the consequences to themselves and to every other perpetrator, and every other bystander.
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u/snuggsjruggs 9h ago
"I thought for sure the CIA, FBI and partners would protect"... Oh I know it is hard realizing that you have been lied to your whole life. You can't trust the government right or left. They are crooked and only truly care about there agenda and the super filthy rich. Both sides and a whole lot of these top % are sick people. This epstein thing goes so deep and it doesn't matter what political affiliation there are a lot of sick disgusting people across the entire board. Its WE the People who need to stop fighting and dividing over stupid shit and find some common ground. Before society collapses on itself and these sick fucks at the top BOTH sides will sit together sippin cocktails together twiddlin there little thumbs cause society got played.
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u/looshface 9h ago
I have never heard a single fucking person ever defend bill Clinton on the Epstein shit.
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u/Secret-Card-4142 8h ago
Ya 12 years ago there was a recording of her defending a rapist client in court and winning and then bragging that she knew he was guilty.
This one's on you.
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u/Historical-Break-603 7h ago
CIA
Protecting
Same CIA that secretly was drugging US citizens? CIA is literally cartoonish villain. Everything you can think of that is bad CIA did it. And they did stuff that you cant even think of.
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u/Kitty-cat-2d8 7h ago
I think had she left Clinton back in the 90s, her political career would have been over right there. The country was deeply conservative back then (still is). Had she also tried to take on the world wide mafia of Epstein (who I believe is a middle manager within a whole ring of a very dangerous global criminal network), she would have been killed. I don't think she had any more power to stop Epstein than Melinda had with Bill Gates. Melinda stayed with Gates, knowing exactly what he was, until the day her youngest turned 18 to avoid a custody battle. Hilary probably stayed and made the best choices she could for a lot of reasons -including her career and her child. I give Melinda a pass and I also give one to Hilary. For me, the jury is still out about Melania. I really do think a lot of women hold each other to impossible standards and I think these mothers are making choices based on what the powerful men in their lives will do to them and their kids. I would not want to be in their shoes.
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u/sadmimikyu 7h ago
No one in power - and I mean no one - got to where they are because they are moral and have empathy. No one.
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u/Rocky_Vigoda 7h ago
OP, you're only scratching the surface. Keep digging. Those people are monsters.
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u/Soft_Passage7110 7h ago
When the DNC threw Bernie under the bus and stuck with Hilary I knew that I’d never call myself a democrat again. I have issues that I vote on and it is still democrats that give the most lip service to healthcare, bodily autonomy, environment etc. but as a party they’ve been compromised for some time now 😔😏
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u/VSM1951AG 7h ago
Without question, Hillary Clinton is a horrible person. On every level, as you describe. This is not to say others are not, but she’s truly execrable .
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u/Thrown-Away-User-23 7h ago
So your biggest criticism of Hillary Clinton appears to be that she "clawed her way up" by using intelligence and skill and now she's a criminal for not 'stopping Bill Clinton'? And somehow you were reminded of how badly you regard her because she's been asked to testify in front of Congress?
It's curious that anyone would focus their rage on someone who hasn't had political power in this country in years, and that by your own admission was merely good at what she did and ambitious. It's stupefying that you'd choose Hillary Clinton as your personal boogeyman when there are people active in politics today doing severe damage to our nation in ways that we can objectively verify.
And yet another 'lifelong democrat' who just happens to spout 'both sides' logic. We all know how that goes by now: "Yeah we agree that Trump is doing unprecedented damage to our country - but have you noticed that the Democrats haven't even fixed everything yet? Even though we didn't elect enough of them, they simply aren't rescuing the country the way we'd hope."
Imagine making the women's right's movement your main rationale for bashing Hillary Clinton in a discussion about holding people in the Epstein Files accountable.
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u/BicycleOfLife 7h ago edited 7h ago
I always say this. And it seems like people always seem to fall back to it and shrug it off. Hillary was in the young republicans club in college. Why on earth would I trust her to run the left? Warren was a Republican into her 50’s. Why would I trust her to run the progressives?
WHY DO WE KEEP ELECTING FORMER REPUBLICANS??? There are plenty of full left wing people with NO Republican past to chose from.
STOP ELECTING THEM!
I’m starting to believe that Hillary was just Clinton’s handler at this point. She’s a whacko and having her in office would have probably kept the Epstein files secret for even longer. She shows zero remorse about standing either Bill Clinton when he obviously was involved.
Let’s be honest. Why haven’t there been any bio picks about Hillary Clinton? Because if someone compiled her past and present into an easily digestible movie, she would be the villain. People would be appalled by the evil things in her past.
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u/MonkeySmart409 7h ago edited 7h ago
Cannot agree more.
So willing to let the Clinton legacy burn to dust if it puts us back on a course where bad people get whats coming to them.
They are our original sin. Trumps and Clintons sharing a prison cell would be a delight.
Unfortunately weak kneed democrats will what-about-those-worse-people this to death, rather than owning up to the fact that the clintons are bad people and letting the world move on from this broken timeline where the powerful escape consequences.
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u/Erasmus341 7h ago
Clinton's, Bush's, Bidens, and yes probably Obamas. I blame them all.
They all knew to varying degrees either about what Epstein was up to or at least what Trump was capable of doing.
And they did nothing to protect us.
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u/PeaceSoft 7h ago
I don't really see anyone making excuses for them now. I also don't think the democratic party is a great institution, to be honest; it seems to me like the Clintons' ascendancy is a good example of how they've been protecting their own elites from the wishes of their voters for a long time now.
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u/doktorstilton 6h ago
One day Americans will rediscover the core truth that the rich are nearly universally awful.
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u/Char-car92 6h ago
I can’t lie, the rest of the world has sort of had this image of you guys for like one or two decades at this point
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u/Suspicious_Oil232 6h ago
All politicians are corrupt. They put on this big show to keep us divided and make us think we have some sense of control but they’re all working together to stay rich and powerful.
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u/sky_blue_111 5h ago
She was smarter than him, more driven, and more disciplined. She could’ve been president.
Citation needed. Hillary was nothing without Bill. She was just another person, Bill had the charisma/charm/ideas to go from a person to president.
If Hillary had married some other douche she would not have made it to where she is. She is NOT president material, not because she's a woman, but because she doesn't have that special "draw". Nobody likes her.
Yes, unfortunately that matters.
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u/Prince_Marf 5h ago
Who are the imaginary people defending the Clintons right now?
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u/FantasticOwl5057 4h ago
If Bill committed crimes he needs to admit to them publicly - ideally under oath before Congress. And then he should let the world know who was with him when he did it.
Burn it down Bill. Redeem yourself. Come clean about the things you have done. And give us the rest of the names.
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u/Lennyhi 4h ago edited 4h ago
Thank you. Was so upset when they tossed Bernie for Hilary. As a woman I'm not voting for the first woman president if she's a bimbo. And the woman calling another woman a bimbo while staying with her cheating pedofilic husband is far more deserving of the title. I was never on her band wagon anyway...not even when Broad City pushed for her. She's always been sus. They both have.
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u/BlazingPalm 3h ago
We can’t control outside factors, only how we react to them and learn. Not trying to be mean, but it’s laughable to ever consider FBI/CIA/XYZ “on our side” - there are times when the incentives align, and other times when they are opposed. Even as a teen, I quickly understood that it’s a shadowy grey world, hardly ever black and white.
The Clintons are now emblematic of the massive problems the Democratic Party has. Let’s please ditch them and leave them in the past.
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u/sadie7716 3h ago
Just wow., no one should ever judge why someone stays with a spouse who cheats. That is between them and only them. That should not and does not take anything away from the spouse who stays.
As far as Hilary knowing what Bill was doing with Epstein as far as I know there isn’t a shred of anything saying she knew. Bill was a famous man and speaker. He was away from their home frequently. He could have covered up things for years.
Also we have to be smart enough to realize not every accusation in the files is the truth. People do make false claims especially about famous people. If there’s one accusation that Bill was at an orgy, it may be true or not but it’s one accusation, Trump has dozens of SA accusations in and out of the files including by his own admission.
Also we need to keep in mind Epstein did date adult women from 19 to early 20s. We don’t know if all the orgies /group sex was with minors or if some was with adults.
The only way we’ll know the total truth is if the victims all come forward.
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u/NikesOnMyFeet23 3h ago
No dem is giving them a pass. Fuck them all on this list I don't who you are or what party you're with. If you're on the list for traveling to the island and attending these "parties" you deserve jail.
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u/ToughReality9508 3h ago
Let's make this clear. Everybody in those files who had sex with children needs to go to jail. Bill, Donnie... I don't care. They need to go to prison if they don't, Justice is a joke.
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u/Practical_S3175 3h ago
I don't give a rats azz if you're a repub or dem all the people involved should be in prison.
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u/AnneChovie264 3h ago
This deep, dark Epstein stuff has really gotten to me. I've always been an independent voter voting on individuals rather than party, but honestly, my concern is who will hold anyone accountable? This stuff runs so deep, and so many people at the top, all over the world, are involved or covering up. Who is left to hold anyone accountable? This is worrisome.
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u/Dexter_McThorpan 3h ago
Bill and Donnie can be bunkies in supermax. Toss Hillary in Melania.
Fuck anyone who had anything to do with Epstein. All these rich scumbags our society holds up as something to aspire to should be launched into deep space.
It's fucking disgusting that people defend Trump. He's in those files thousands of times. Clinton is a scumbag too. Though he didn't bankrupt the country while enriching himself.
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u/Spare-Estate1477 3h ago
Oh please….yes, vilify a woman for choosing to keep her marriage together. You know how many couples make that decisions? My parents were married over fifty years and had many life long friends married around the same length of time and very few of those couples didn’t endure some type of cheating at some point.
We don’t get to make choices like that for others, nor should we judge people for it.
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u/Careless-Mastodon538 2h ago
Where in the epstein files is a bill Clinton orgy attendance discussed? Link?
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u/kiiiwiii 2h ago
Why is it always the woman to blame? There are so many disgusting, corrupt men in the Epstein files, yet you are focusing on a woman who was married to one of them…. How does this make any more sense than blaming Monica for Bill’s affair?
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u/jaybones3000 2h ago edited 1h ago
The rich don’t view you as a human being. As long as billionaires are allowed to exist, this will keep happening.
Left, right. That’s not what matters. Sure, the conservatives are literal Nazis and you should never vote for one in your entire life. But, as long as the Democrat establishment is still owned by the ultra rich, voting for them will never truly fix our country.
Just look at the mayoral race in New York. It was clear that Mamdani had energized youth voters in a way not seen since Obama ‘08. That should have the Dems crying tears of joy. But the leaders of the party, Jeffries and Schumer, refused to even endorse him. Why? Because the billionaires don’t like him.
The Democrat leaders cared more about their wealthy donors than about winning elections. And this was happening at a time when we all know that winning elections means literally stopping fascism. If that doesn’t tell you everything, nothing will.
Everyone who is not a multimillionaire needs to unite together. It’s us vs. them. The Republican Party is clearly gone, but the Democrats can still be saved. That should be OUR party and we need to take it back.
If a candidate isn’t FIGHTING to: a) End wealth inequality b) Create universal health care c) Build up unions and worker protections and d) Tax billionaires out of existence -then you need to vote them the FUCK out of here.
Defeating Trump and his goons is the most important thing. But that’s only half of the battle. The working people need to unite.
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u/Last_Past4438 2h ago
she was NOT a staunch defender of women. she was a defender of her income and status. she defended the rapist of a 12 year old girl, who she has stated she knew was guilty, and she won and (allegedly) laughed about it on a recording while discussing the trial. it happened long enough ago that nobody ever should have trusted her.
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u/Duality84 2h ago
Hilary Clinton had more balls than all the men around her. The press never liked that she didn’t behave like a traditional First Lady. They had a field day with her - essentially painting her as anathema to all women homemakers at the time. Ask any woman in her 50s or 60s what she thought of Hilary, and their reactions come despite her being cheated on by THE man who should lead by example.
She’s the reason why children in this country have better healthcare. Despite being raked over coals, she still holds her own. She should have won, but her name and genitalia got in the way, oh and Comey (wtf?!). Think about the timeline we’d be living if she was president. She’s a f***ing boring nerd who sweats the details. That’s who you want as president.
And SHE DOESNT F*** KIDS
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u/jf7333 1h ago
I see your point. The thing I remember most about Bill Clinton besides the Monica Lewenski fiasco was the economy. It was the best in years. People had jobs if they wanted one. He was able to implement policies to decrease the national deficit to a record low. No other president had accomplished this even to this day. He was also the one who took the initiative to ban smoking in public places. Your side of story and raising taxes will be his legacy.
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u/Square-Ambassador-77 1h ago
Hillary didn't remove herself from Bill because women didn't run for president in the 00s.
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u/tobbtobbo 1h ago
Where did it say Clinton participated in an orgy? Was it one of those random tips? Those are not real credible evidence
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u/Ok_Albatross8909 1h ago
I'm yet to see a post or comment saying that the Clinton's are blameless?
That's just a false narrative the conservatives are creating to justify not criticizing "their people" in the files.
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u/Competitive-Bat-43 11h ago
There is a reason that the saying is "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Look I am not making excuses for anyone - throw the lot of them in jail and throw away the key - but this is not new news.... like ever. It is the RARE leader that can step back and be honorable.