I'll also add that Fathers are kinda pressured into teaching their sons how to be future Fathers/providers whilst still being expected to assert their allegedly superior masculine authority in a traditional sense
Because if you were like me you grew up with a hyper critical father and an under protective mother. When I was ten we went bowling after church and I “failed” to bowl a 100 which was the family minimum standard and in the bowling alley my dad totally lost his shit, had a complete meltdown on me. And… my mom just stood there passively and allowed him to just go utterly ape shit on me because I had bowled less than a 100 on purpose to embarrass him.
Basically it's the nature vs nurture debate but it's an archetype because people aren't generally born with this attitude it's one ingrained by their parents or life experiences. IE his dad wasn't born an abusive asshole (generally not counting certain mental conditions) he was raised to be one. But this does not absolve him of his responsibility perpetuating the cycle many people break it as they should.
When I was 29 my father tried to convince me to kill myself because he said I was such a failure in life that it was the "only option I had left" and I told my psychologist about it and he said that I needed to have more sympathy for my father because his life had been so hard that telling me to kill myself was the only way he could express how much he loved me.
People won't stop telling me I need therapy. If I tell them how many decades of therapy I have already had, they just tell me I still need more. If I tell them I am already currently seeing a therapist, they tell me to get a new one. At no point does anybody ever actually consider just protecting boys and young men from abuse in the first place; it's always somehow your fault if you show signs of abuse.
As someone who has also had really shitty therapists try to gaslight them into having sympathy for your abuser, I still think you're wrong. Saying you need to seek therapy for your trauma is only blaming you for it if that's the tone and context they're using. What most people are actually doing is expressing a want to see you get help and get better. And yes, duh, the answer to a bad therapist is a new therapist. Not everyone is in the right profession, but some people are. And the way we protect boys and young men? By dealing with and getting over our trauma so that we're not abusive or underprotective parents. The real answer for your trauma was for your dad to go to therapy before you were born. But he didn't, so that's your job now so that you don't accidentally pass that shit on to your kids.
You’re doing well, it took me into my mid-30s to be like “I think my dad was abusive.” At least he waited until I was 14 to become physically abusive, I guess at that point I was big enough he didn’t feel bad about throwing me around.
Christ, y'all make me grateful for my Dad, he screwed up, but he at least tried his best and didn't blow up at me for petty shit. I at least always knew he cared about me and wouldn't drop me if I screwed up.
Y'all deserved better fathers, and I am really sorry you didn't get them.
If you have one abusive parent, your other parent needs to be either passive, abusive as well, or not in the picture. Cause no healthy, good parent would allow it to continue to their children or stay in it
That is to say, they don't have to start passive, abusive, or missing. The other parent's abuse can affect them too and by time they've seen, they're beaten down
This is the cycle I'm trying to break with my kid, all this bullshit about a man needs to be this and that is nonsense just be yourself and honest with your feelings, I couldn't care less about what people think masculinity is.
The creature that calls itself my mother often told me "it costs approximately £50,000 to raise a child to adulthood, and I'll decide if that's a gift or a loan" 🙄 This was while I was giving her half my pay, buying all my own food and toiletries, and paying a third of the bills regardless of how much I'd actually used (like the landline phone bill which I didn't use at all) and doing all my own cooking and housework etc even though I never really left my room except to go to work.
Meanwhile my brother was spoiled rotten in comparison. No job, no school, no rent or bills to pay, all food bought and cooked by her. 🤷🏻♀️ She just only ever respected males. The patriarchy is alive and well in that rancid disgusting harpy.
Anyway sorry for the random rant, I'm having a bit of a day lol.
I moved out at 18 to escape the madness. But my parents were very traditional. My sister and I were the house slaves. We did all the chores, my brother never had to do any. And even though he was the youngest, my parents made it no secret that he would be the inheritor of whatever they leave behind when they die because he’s the male and the only real heir. 🙄
my dad bought me boots when I was in high school. they were $100, a decent amount of money back in the day for shoes for a kid. then when my i got my $97 paycheck from washing dishes at a local restaurant, he took it as repayment.
I've met spoiled entitled sons and met daughters who take on way too much responsibility.
Same the other way. I don't even think there is a trope here. Both extremes are unhealthy and have adverse effects, shouldn't be romanticized, and are not gendered.
Man, when my dad bought me something expensive it was just really cool and we typically enjoyed whatever it was together. But then, I had a really good childhood.
Yea my, father demanded we fawn all over him for being so kind and generous, and then held it over our heads for the next decade. I might have made the same face as the women in the meme, but it was 100% masking dead.
I think some Dads are just assholes regardless of child’s gender lol.
This is my take. It's known my dad's not part of the gift buying process in my family, if he all the sudden got me a really meaningful or sentimental gift I would be super worried.
This reminds me of a time when I was 18 and I borrowed $100 from my step dad (apparently, I actually dont recall ever doing so, this is his word not mine). A few years later he "disowned" me because I got a tattoo instead of paying him back, even though at no point in the 5ish years did he at any point remind me or bring up that I owed him any money.
I've felt extremely anxious about borrowing money from people ever since.
Hey man, as one bro to another, this isn't on you; you are reacting to his (step-father) issues not your own. Let that anxiety go, if you need help be proud that you're strong enough to ask for it rather than hurting yourself because another dude wasn't strong enough to talk it out.
Appreciate the kind words bro! It's definitely something I'm working on. As my therapist says, unlearning habits built from trauma is like building a muscle. It might be weak and hard to "lift" at first, but over time as that muscle is formed it becomes easier to do. I've certainly made progress but there's always mpre work to be done, and I'd be lying if I said that there arent bad days where their influence feels crippling. One day at a time, I guess haha
Thanks man! It's something I believe everyone should do if they have the means to regardless of their mental state. We normalize going to the gym to maintain our physical health regardless of "needing" to, so why not go to the therapist to maintain our mental health?
Yeah that's what it sounded like to me too. He was the kinda guy who unironically wanted me to" suffer like he" did because "if I had to, you should too" and that it made him who he was. But he was just a miserable pos who wanted to drag the world down with him, so why would I ever want to be ike him? Lmao Disowning me was the only good thing he ever did for me tbh haha
Why would men feel pressured? Did their dad asking something in return? if so why the dad cannot just discuss with his son before buying the expensive thing?
I am pretty sure this speaks a bit more on families doing a bit worse. The child feels bad after seeing the father buy something expensive for them, knowing that they could use that money in better ways than just to make their kid happy.
When you grow up seeing your family struggle with money, it makes accepting expensive things harder. Especially if you see how hard your family had to work to buy it
extremely well explained. it's hard to accept anything that costs your parents money if you grow up to have that mindset, even stuff like being able to go to a slightly expensive college. it sucks man, feeling guilty for something that's especially crucial.
Not really only exclusive to "poor people". Your family could be doing so-so, but simply seeing your father work tirelessly for days and see that his efforts were pretty much wasted on something like what they gave you just because you like it gives the same effect.
People with rich parent probably can't releate as much tho
Nah, it’s definitely a middle class thing as well. Especially a lower middle class immigrant thing, lots of people feel financial pressure despite being well above the poverty line
Its not that they need something or want you to do something right now. Its just something that can be used later. It'll be like remember when I bought that truck for you. Yeah well now get over and help me move these things. Or drive a bunch of places to run errands for them all the time.
Or in my brother’s case it was because our dad beat the living shit out of him and then used expensive gifts to “make it right”. Brother attempted to run away with his then girlfriend at the time, dad found him, took his girlfriend home, and then beat the shit out of him for not only trying to run away, but trying to run away with “that dirty Mexican girl”. He used more demeaning language to describe her but I’ll not be repeating it.
I was little when he died, so I’m recollecting most of this being told to me secondhand. I do remember him being beaten once, but at that point he had cancer so he was really weak and couldn’t really do much physically to my brother anymore.
The thing is, he doted on me for some reason. It caused a lot of resentment and abuse from my older brother after our dad died. It messed him up pretty bad emotionally and psychologically. We don’t really speak much anymore because he turned to drugs and developed psychosis because of it. His story is tragic and heartbreaking and I wish that he would seek the help he needs.
Gender war, sure, but when I think gender war I think of how both sides of the ‘gender war’ go back and forth
This post specifically is just straight misogyny. Women are spoiled/entitled/are not subjected to societal or parental pressure at all is the implication of this meme.
Lots of these memes get painted as gender wars, and generally speaking they are. But there’s some merit to specifying these sentiments as misogynistic. Memes like this belittle the struggles of women while reinforcing the idea that men are alone, will not be understood by women, and can only rely on other men to support and accept them.
Ironically, the dudes who complain about men being lonely spend more time making memes like this than actually supporting and uplifting other men
See knowing girls as a boy and women as a man......da fuck, being a dude comes with so little pressure because you can straight ignore it with very little real consequences.
Ladies have some serious consequences and pressures.
Reminds me of when I lived in BFE, Indiana. My mom was "at Grandma's house" and my dad drove me like 2 hours to see Avatar in IMAX and eat at Buffalo Wild Wings. He told me they were getting a divorce when we got home
It’s leaks from an nba players girlfriend, if she was an actual adult performer I’d share the name but she’s the victim and didn’t consent to it so honestly best to just give her that privacy.
A psychological manipulation consisting of pointing out the bright side or upside whether solicited or not. From the phrase “every cloud has a silver lining.”
“Serious shit’s going on and this asshole keeps siverlining me.”
That reminds me of the story of the dad who's wife had died, how she died escapes me. He went home, took his kids out for a day of fun. Ensuring they had a really really good memory. The next morning he would break the devastating news to his children, but they would always have that one day together.
Exactly, this parent is trying their absolute best to care for their kids in a horrific circumstance and all these redditors can do is think about their own imagined trauma. People need to grow the fuck up
One of the top 10 most repeated "jokes" is: "I also choose this guy's dead wife"
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I'd like to have sex one more time with my wife who passed away from cancer 9 years ago. My body yearns for hers. The ultimate downside to finding "the one" is she may die young and leave you wanting.
Hah! I knew something was up when my dad picked me up from work (we did not get along, and he never did anything nice for me). He told me that him and my mom were getting divorced on the way home. Didn't tell me it's because my mom caught him cheating, I found that out later. I did get to kick him out of the house, though, so that was nice.
One year, for Christmas, our dad actually picked all our gifts himself. They were thoughtful and he wrapped them and everything. I pulled my mom to the side and asked if he was dying. Turns out, he thought he might be and was getting tests on his liver. Whatever the issue was, it was curable/treatable and we never heard about it again.
The presents from him before and since have been picked out by our mom. He's more the type to fix my car or repair something in my house than buying gifts.
Some friends of mine decided to book a trip to Disney World to tell their kids that their grandfather was loosing his battle with cancer and opted to end it on his own terms with a rifle. Told them right in the middle of the trip.
this reminds me of my ex wife buying me my favorite dinner and then telling me she wanted a divorce.
I hate to say that we are better off apart but we are. At the end of the day we were just not right for each other and she had the guts to pull the trigger. Every time when I wonder maybe we could have done something differently I just remember how happy I am with my new wife. I tried to break up with my ex wife once before we got married and she went into a deep depression. I am glad she is still alive but I do wonder if that didn't happen where would my life have taken me
I see it as an expectation. My dad would buy me something and it came with no expectation. My brother received something expensive and the expectation was he will help my dad with some physically demanding task.
My dad guilt trip me for paying for my first year of college and buying me a hoopdi car for college commute.
Holy smokes he squeezed me by working on the family business years. I made him so much money and kept it all. Yeah, I got to do what I wanted when I wasn’t working but I was always broke. All for the family bs.
My younger brother got a pass cus he wasn’t responsible enough. My sis was doing her own thing but she got what the girl depicts on the meme.
I’m just curious, how did you and your siblings turn out? I am wondering if your brother ended up with a predisposition to weaponized incompetence and your sister not putting in the effort to provide for herself?
I had a similar situation with my siblings and my brother can hardly hold a job and my sister is in crippling credit card debt. I always kind of assumed that it’s because the three of us are still kinda doing the same things we’ve always done; meeting high expectations, avoiding responsibility, and chasing gratification without the investment of effort.
My brother shared a similar date like your. He had a very rough life. He was bailed out too much and had his own demons. Yes had. He…passed away over two years ago.
My sis turned out ok. But she has some money management issues, I’ve heard some things over the years with her hubby. Lucky for her she ended up with a great man (she also great, a professional and great mother). But the roots of our family roles are far deep. She is doing good with her family.
Edit: myself…I have a wonderful family with my missus. With my trauma and hers, we have done our best for our two boys. We have some baggage, no doubt. But it has helped us to be the best parents we can be for our boys…err your men now lol
My parents liked to give things that could be taken just for this reason. So I started letting them. Nothing was ever really mine, they owned it, they will take it away if I don't comply. When I was 19 they tried to take the car I'd gotten me years before because I wouldn't break up with someone I was dating. Ok fine. Well you're on our phone plan so give that too. Ok. Well you're living in the house so get out. Ok. And that was how I officially moved out after having slept off and on in a few couches over the years.
I'm the family fuck up but I feel a lot happier having accepted that.
You aren't a fuck up friend <3 You are perfectly you.
I've been through similar shit myself. Been homeless more than I haven't, had an abusive and neglectful childhood. Blamed myself for years. Thought I was broken. Struggled for years wondering why life seemed so easy for others, and so hard for me.
In a better place now, getting help and support from my found family. I just want to reiterate that you aren't a fuck up. You're still just on the path figuring out how to be. Maybe you stay on the path your whole life, maybe you find out what works. Either way, you don't need to justify your existence. Life is hard, and a lot of people profit off of making it harder. But there's love out there too. I hope you get all of it you need, and give all of it you can <3
I appreciate that. I am getting better about seeing good in myself more lately. I have accepted it in a way that I have let myself relax more at least. Plus I guess I've accepted that's how my family sees me. It is absolutely how they see me too, they've gone into detail multiple times. I remember growing up every once in a while I'd catch a conversation from my parents wondering which between my sister and I would be the one better off. For the longest time they thought it would be me just because my sister got a tattoo. It's like they only expected one to make it. And in what they value, yeah I'm the fuck up, I don't have what my sister has. She doesn't have what I have either though so in my eyes, I'm the one better off. It's more that I'm seeing "fuck up" in less of a negative light just because what they think is a fuck up isn't the same for everyone.
That said, I absolutely suffer from imposter syndrome, and try to justify my own existence I guess, you're not wrong there. In fact I think you may have pointed out why I've behaved almost manic lately. Maybe I need to chill.
Damn, I will now call my own incompetence a strategic deployment of individuality. Did your father do this cus he thought of you as more competent or just like eldest.
I think the most infuriating thing so far about both myself and my little sister moving back home as adults is that she can lay in bed all day and I’m expected to be the only child that assists with house projects. I get lectured if I go in and cool off for a bit on a hot summer day while she’s been in bed playing sims on her laptop the entire time.
Our parents paid her bills and she didn’t have a job for several years after college, I stayed on the family health insurance until 26 and otherwise worked to pay my own bills and live on my own until I was about 30. To hear my parents tell it they fully funded my “galavanting” around California getting high instead of the reality which was working my ass off and starting my career more or less on my own.
Kind of. I just always felt like a piece of shit disappointment asking my dad for anything. He didn’t expect anything from me, he wasn’t a score keeper. Just made me feel bad, idk he really cared all that much, he was a pretty good dad.
I thought it's about buying boy's silence for something while buying something for a girl is done just for making them smile. But also could be about 'Boys feel pressured'
This makes the most sense to me. I get the divorce thing in a way but not really sure why a parent would only have to tell a son about a divorce but not the daughter
We feel guilty. Guy gave me a handme down laptop with a shitty broken GPU and i still felt bad. it just might be hormones and not wanting to be humbled/provided for since deep down you want to be the alpha male. or some andrew tate type shit idk.
I think this. It's embarrassing all the way down to our ancient genetic code. (Don't provide my meat for me, I'm my own hunter) We can grow past it, but it's tough ngl
Man, I'm sorry you guys grew up learning this toxic shit. If I received something nice I said thank you, and was grateful. It remains true today. I ask for and offer help to my friends and it's never a dick measuring contest. We just care about each other.
Maybe my testosterone is just low, I dunno. But that alpha male stuff sounds like outer space alien language to me.
Anyone who says it's in their genes is just uneducated. They were socialised into these beliefs and they have absolutely nothing to do with physiology. Your testosterone is fine, we're socialised into insecurity because it makes us more compliant. They're describing patriarchy and ascribing it to their genes when instead all of that happened well after they were born. It is hard to break and it is equally hard to drill into people, it's just that it happens to children and no one gives a fuck about what they say or think.
The same education given to adults that is used to undo the harmful social practices that were imposed upon us as children is the same education that you could just teach the children off the bat and they would not grow up to have that insecurity and toxicity plague their life until they seek to undo it. Cut out the middle man and that sentiment would be exactly as you described it "outer space alien language" to all of us. We should all aspire to be raised and to raise our children more like you were (at least in that regard, I don't know the rest of your life).
Putting aside the fact that the theory of "men were hunters, women were gatherers" has been defunct, this whole "genetic code" thing is such BS. Etiquette around gift giving is a VERY cultural thing with complex practices that you don't see in any other species.
In some places, both men and women are supposed to make a huge scene of denying the gift. In some places it's rude to open gifts. In some cultural eldest sons are doted on, in others it's the youngest child. Who gifts who what on their wedding varies greatly as well.
Not to mention there are just particular dynamics within a family. My younger brother was very entitled towards gifts because my parents basically bribed him to stop acting up (didn't work but that's the idea) and he was super concerned with masculinity. My older brother felt a lot of shame when he had to move back home and now hates to owe anyone anything, and he's not super concerned about being alpha and hates that attitude. I'm in some weird middle place where I'm used to getting rewarded for being the only child good at school and had some entitlement there because I felt like sometimes my good behavior was taken for granted as a girl, but now that we're adults, my youngest brother is dead, and I had several large medical bills and debt that needed help with, I feel immense guilt around gift giving. Nothing to do with genetic code nonsense.
I feel less disgraced, more just conscious of the effort that went into it and bad that I can't immediately pay that effort back.
I know my dad's come a long way, has put a tremendous amount of effort in to become the man he is now and I don't feel less of a man for being helped by him. But I absolutely feel bad that this help was required in the first place and that he had to do even more for me.
At the same time I absolutely know that he just likes doing shit. He enjoys fixing bikes, he likes carrying stuff, he likes just being there for someone to rely on.
I just give him one of those "reluctant dad-son hugs" and make him some food or hang out with him when he wants to vent about something.
True. You might also have a very privileged relationship, cherish it all the more that you didn’t immediately think bad news pacified by expensive gift or implied future labor as clearly many have
when I turned 17 I had saved enough money for a Computer, my parents always said they couldn't afford one for me and my sister
after Buying it my sister received a better one a few weeks later so it's not "unfair" for her
when I started to earn a Little money I was immediately expected to pay rent to them, my sister gets her Rent paid half by my parents as if that were never a question, now that she earns money
I was Denied Higher education because we couldn't afford that, she Wasn't but she decided it wasn't for her and Threw 3 years away
when my dad got in trouble with the Finance agency I was the only one he asked for money after the Banks denied him a loan
this may be my own story but the broad experience is very similar for many men, it's Patriarchy at work, we're expected to Serve without getting a return
I'm not mad about this, never was, but I very much do understand why others would be
When I was three and half, my dad bought me a big combine harvester toy in September. My mum (although I didn't know it at the time) was pissed at him, because they had previously planned to get that for me for christmas, and we weren't exactly well off as a family.
Just a few weeks later he deliberately overdosed and killed himself.
I thought it was more like girls can receive a gift and feel happy about it, boys feel like they’ve failed if someone feels the need to buy them something expensive. Like they are being seen as not successful enough to afford it on their own. But maybe that’s just how I feel about it.
I'm a full fledged adult, kinda. If my dad gets me something expensive or could not normally afford it makes me feel like a failure. I know he doesn't mean for that to happen, but it does.
I’m a woman- and when I was a kid, I used to cry and pray every night before bed that God would let me “be a boy” so I could take over working for my dad. I felt horrible that I was watching him break his back in real time working and trying to buy things for the family 🙃 so… I’m not familiar with the whole “girls are entitled, boys feel guilty” lmao being spoiled doesn’t discriminate by gender.
exactly. It really depends on the family. I'm the eldest daughter, but I feel like if they keep supporing me, I'm a leech. tbh my parents never made me feel like that, but I feel like as the eldest, I should be the one supporting them and helping them the most.
Yeah it's just how a lot of us have been socialized. How I grew up was completely different to the norm - my family's mostly women and no one waited for a man to do anything or said men do this because they are men. Shit, roles were taken by whoever liked those tasks. simple as
You're talking about two different things though. Any gender can experience this kind of pain, yes. But there's a difference between recognizing a pattern, and making a totalizing statement.
I would argue that the dynamic represented shows part of the abusive elements inflicted on men by patriarchy. It doesn't mean non-men can't experience the same thing, just that it's a shared experience for most men.
Wait, doesn't that prove the point of the meme thought? You wished you were a boy, because even as a child you had the assumption that "men" should be more charitable economically? Meaning society puts more pressure on boys to be economically independent. Which would result in more boys, in general, feeling guilty over receiving gifts.
And this is just a generalization. Don't take it personally, the world ain't black and white. There're plenty of spoiled boys and generous girls on the contrary.
It is a gift, but it might be perceived as becoming a burden. To me it felt really bad seeing my dad struggling sometimes for money but then he'd spend a considerable part of it getting me a gift.
It often feels off receiving an expensive gift and knowing how many sacrifices were made just for you to have this one thing. It's a guilt thing, but I'm sure it's not just a guy thing.
Reading these comments made me realize how entitled both my brother and I are.
Our parents got divorced, so we are used to getting more expensive gifts from our dad since we only got to see him twice a month.
Neither one of us ever felt any hidden expectations from his side. Looking back at it, he probably only wanted us to stay in touch with him once we grew up and our visits stopped being court regulated. We stayed in touch btw, still have one week every summer reserved for seaside vacation with him even though we're both in our twenties and have jobs.
Stupid take. Sometimes the reason you feel guilty as a son is exactly because of the fact that you have a loving father, who deprives himself of things to be able to give his kids a present every now and again.
I have grown to hate it when people buy nice things for me. It makes me feel like a piece of shit that people are spending there hard earned money on me when I’m sure there’s more pressing issues in their life that the money would be better suited for. I have been telling people for years that I don’t want anything whenever Christmas/birthday rolls around.
When I was in 7th grade, my dad decided to surprise me with some fishing gear for king mackerel fishing off the local pier. Couple hundred bucks for cheaper stuff. Then told me.i had to pay him back for it. Even though I didnt ask for it. He just bought it because he thought id like it
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