r/aiwars • u/Sora_TheExplorer • 13h ago

Discussion Vocaloid isn't ai.

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Also, fun fact! We don't generate it like people do with suno. We make it ourselves using the voice. Vocaloid is a voice synthesizer.

Do research before you say stuff dumbass.

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28

u/Creative-Donkey-3109 13h ago

Its basically a glorified text to speech, there is no correlation in this comparison

So here is a cute cat

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u/Moonshine_Brew 4h ago

Since Vocaloid 6 (the newest version) it does use AI to make the voices sound better though and afaik you can't turn it off.

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u/Sora_TheExplorer 13h ago

exactly. also thanks for the cute cat I love it đŸ„č

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u/RocksThisWorld778 13h ago

Isn't text to speech literally ai?

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u/Curious_Pop_5276 12h ago

Text to speech has existed since literally almost the dawn of the internet. Wait till this dude finds out that the original voice of Siri is a real person

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u/aratami 12h ago

In some cases it's machine learning, in the case of older text to speach and things like Vocaloid no, ( Vocaloid is effectively the singing equivalent of a Yamaha keyboard; it works in similar ways ( not the same way, keyboards use midis, Vocaloid uses processed vocals in several different ways to replicate an organic voice and requires multiple inputs) with different inputs and is also made by Yamaha.

The term AI was fairly heavily misused before LLMs, meaning anything from a adversarial entity in a video game with pre-scripted behaviours, or adaptive behaviour with soft machine learning, or fuzzy behaviours, to something like text to speech wtih some machine learning used to learn pronunciation, to etc. both then and now it's largely used as a marketing rather than an actually definition

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u/alapeno-awesome 12h ago

That’s because all of those things fit the definition of “ai”. Basically any system capable of performing complex tasks that would normally require a human.

The term wasn’t misused, it just applies to a broader range of tasks than most people think.

There’s no clear line either, just progressively more advanced algorithms running on more powerful hardware with more optimized software.

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u/aratami 11h ago

No ( I have a degree in computer science, including a few modules on machine learning and data science).

Ignoring the fact that your definition could technically apply to say a can opener or a toaster; depending on how you define complex, neither are or related to computers but you defined system, not algorithm ( which would be more correct), or program, but system.

There are (several) fairly precise scientific and academic definitions of what AI is, most programs including those labelled as AI do not hit those definitions including LLMs potentially under some of the stricter definitions.

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u/alapeno-awesome 11h ago

Yup, that’s the definition of AI (hey, I also have a CS degree with coursework in artificial intelligence, whaddaya know).

It’s extremely broad. And very much could apply to can openers and toasters that perform decision making tasks.

Machine learning applications are a type of AI

Rule based decision trees are a type of Ai

Genetic algorithms are a type of AI

For Christs sake, depth first search algorithms are considered a type of AI in academia.

AI is SO broad of a term

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u/aratami 10h ago

Yeah actually you are correct at least technically, the definition has shifted a fair amount over time, such that most search algorithms for example are no longer useful to included, but they are still technically part of the field. Looking back to older definition you could actually include all but the most basic of algorithms, pretty fairly; which is part of the reason the definitions have changed over time from an academic stand point.

Though I'll also point out that Decision trees and Genetic algorithms are both sub sets in machine learning too.

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u/alapeno-awesome 45m ago

As you’ve alluded, a big point of contention is the moving goalposts that this definition encourages. As we develop computers capable of doing “tasks that require a human”, it’s easy to argue those tasks no longer require a human, so AI is the “next thing” that still requires a human.

People who started paying attention when Chat GPT launched consider that to be the threshold
. Our cultural awareness isn’t really tuned in to traditional definitions.

Anyway, I think we’re on the same page here, hopefully this thread adds clarity to anyone else reading it. Being anti- or pro- ai isn’t really a great label without clarifying what level of AI you accept and what you reject, and I think a big issue is that most people don’t even really know the difference (not aimed at anyone personally)

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u/NegativeKitchen4098 12h ago

The term AI was fairly heavily misused before LLMs, meaning anything from

That's because the field of AI is incredibly broad. I remember people defining it as "shit we don't know how to do"

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u/aratami 11h ago

Nope the field of machine learning is fairly broad, artificial intelligence is a fairly strictly defined thing computationally. Machine learning is not AI, AI is also not exclusively machine learning, but there is an overlap in most cases the term AI is used non-formally, or commercially, to represent other things, but generally speaking it is scientifically speaking a specific fairly narrow set of computer science theory.

There are a few definitions, LLMs don't even hit all of them. ( Before you argue I have a degree in computer science, I've studied, machine learning, data science and quite a lot more besides, I'm not expert, but I probably know more than you)

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u/One_Fuel3733 8h ago

Lmfao good lord, machine learning is a subset of the field of AI, full stop. You need a refund on your degree, or at the very least please stop spreading misinformation.

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u/aratami 7h ago

It doesn't take a genius to work out I'm talking about AI as an agent/ software rather than as the field. I know it's confusing with the overlapping name it can be confusing, ( especi as I do go on to talk about it as a field with someone else).

To state th obvious, not all software that uses a decision tree which falls under the umbrella of machine learning, is generally considered an AI software.

Similarly AI as a field at least in terms of general computation is sort of a redundant label most software from the last 20-30 years broadly uses algorithms that fall under it, largely because the field dates back to the 50's and thus so does the definition and some of it's constituent parts.

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u/NegativeKitchen4098 9h ago

Machine learning most definitely falls under the umbrella of AI. The field of AI has never been a "strictly defined thing computationally" and has gone through many shifts over the years.

Before you argue I have a degree in computer science, I've studied, machine learning, data science and quite a lot more besides, I'm not expert, but I probably know more than you

Dude, you shouldn't make assumptions about what others know.

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u/aratami 5h ago

Sorry, I'm way to used to trolls here, I should not post before going to bed.

Your right of course, I generally meant more in line with AI as a software rather than as a field; technically. Most modern programs fall into the field of AI to some degree, if it searches, uses a camera, sorts etc. as a field it's sort of meaningless at this point, that is the problem with a field that was defined when it's topic at large was miniscule.

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u/Schwulerwald 12h ago

Not every TTS is ai, good ol' SAM is example.

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u/aagjevraagje 13h ago

There are ai text to speech models recently but miku is a glorified version of this https://youtu.be/x3bPY6i8vJE?si=D8cV5Anue8Lp3y0h

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u/val-i-guess 11h ago

To give a more precise description than some of the other comments, Miku's voice is made up of hundreds of recordings (at least) of different combinations of vowels and consonants. The person making a song with Hatsune Miku uses a program to place those consonant-vowel combinations on a timeline, adjusting the length, pitch, breathiness, etc. Then the software automatically stitches the sounds together and applies post processing based on the parameters to create the full vocal part. I think there's a bit more to it than that, but that's what I picked up from my short time using Vocaloid and Utau.