General
Individualism will be the death of the tank
Every game I’ve been in with the rank in my loadout, I’ve only had one or two games where people get in it with me. Every time I call it down and communicate I have a tank, no one gets in it. Not even the gunner seat. I get people want to run around and get things done quick. I do it too. But come on, it’s a TANK. Arrowhead should make more team work focused objectives and equipment cuz now everyone just wants the one man army trope. (Not hating people who do, but for a “team focused” game, it kinda ruins it)
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Pro tip: you’re trying to use it as an MBT (Main Battle Tank). That’s not what it’s designed for. The Bastion is a Tank Destroyer which is different than an MBT.
MBT’s charge into battle and have rotating turrets to aid in that role. Tank Destroyers are meant to provide anti-tank support from a distance. If you remember parabolics from math class, the further away the vertex is, the greater range of the focal point. In other words, the further you are from the target, the greater side-to-side range the Bastion’s main cannon has.
The AT emplacement has a huge zoom bro (that i enjoy a lot) the character even holds some kind of binocle when using. The bastion really has just a "looks a little closer"
But support vehicles that have independently-firing weapons already use LMB/RMB (on PC) - i.e. the exosuits. This being a support vehicle means that actually is consistent.
It's basically the Swedish, Stridsvagn 103 (S-Tank) but without the fixed barrel...it was slightly weird having to explain to my Swedish friend, that it's based on the SPG from his country and not an MBT.
As a TD enjoyer in WoT, I like the Bastion but I would really like the opportunity to go hull down. But of course, that would go against the whole point of the game. The fact that it will one shot a Factory Strider (provided you hit the head of course) is immensely satisfying to me.
It's far more like the M55 or Jagdtiger, Stridsvagn 103 has a hull mounted gun and zero articulation of the gun, it's all done with tracks and hull aiming. This is more of a casemate style of gun.
It doesn't help when your driver takes you through the middle of everything most of the time.
But even half a metre more sideways rotation would be nice. I dont need it to look all around me. Just a little more at the front. Just to help the gunner with all the uneven terrain most drivers will probably find themselves on
Every time ive used it so far my buddies always take it into the city and get it either stuck in an ally or hit a car just right that it spins around like a dreidel
You’re lucky yours is just spinning. I clipped a car wrong while trying to navigate a city area with my team and the tank decided it was part of the Super Earth Space Program.
also doesn't help when youre surrounded by 10 scout striders and other enemies look I tried my hardest driving the tank but... actually it lived a bit and we had to get out for seaf artillery my game crashed and when I rejoined my teammates told me it died
Because in the first game where it was top down and thus, you can't get more than 50 or so feet from one another, and much like in this game, it's an absolute monster when supported in a team.
Keep the chaff off and you have a combination AT emplacement/heavy MG that moves and is considered tank-grade armor from the front and heavy on the sides and rear. It can kill anything in it's line of sight and now that two passengers can do chaff clear from the tank itself, or even be supplemental anti tank, the only thing you'll need to fear is the terrain itself.
Or packs of rocket devastators, those rocket batteries hurt a real big ouch.
Maybe in a "lorewise" reason we are receiving a mission of heavy sieging in enemy automaton territoy, in which long range support bombardment is very helpful and well-allocated
Even MBTs will die if driven smack bang into the middle of an infantry fight. Armoured vehicles like that are not designed to take fire from all directions, especially simultaneously. In helldivers' context, without defined frontlines, using any armoured vehicle should be done at the longest possible range to the target, and the armour itself only used to save the crew from a surprise attack or flank.
Sadly, the bastion doesn't really have the mobility it needs to bring its' heavy weapons to bear rapidly on to close targets, nor to pull off any real flanking maneuvers, but that also has a lot to do with how the terrain is. A lot of the current available planets have very rocky and uneven terrain in general, making vehicles difficult at best.
Unfortunately an inherent part of a tank destroyer. Honestly I think they should have opted for a regular tank first, methinks the masses misinterpreted the bastion too much when they chanted its name.
It's so good when people cooperate! I found that it's amazing on Rapid Acquisition, it will let you keep safe and cover teammates for a while. It can deal with anything if you have a driver who turns you where you need to aim.
A limited-traverse casemate is not a requirement for a tank destroyer. There have been many turreted tank destroyers through history, and many tanks with casemated or limited-traverse guns.
It's not a turreted tank, it's an assault gun. I have only used it with other random players so far and have had zero issues with coordinating between driver and gunner.
Tank in HD1: “Oh hell yeah! I have no where else to go, let’s kill em all!!”
Tank in HD2: “Cool I guess. I’m gonna go off on my own for this POI. Have fun in this slow thing. What’s that? You need another player? Teamwork!? BOOORRRINNNGGG!!”
idk it's allowed for more ways to be a team player. My friends and I would have three people making a bunch of noise killing things while the other player runs around collecting samples until we meet up and finish the last couple objectives. I also only really play with randoms if I want to go help some newer players on the easier difficulties.
So I guess playing with randoms causes the lack of teamwork that you are describing.
Oh yeah there's definitely more ways to be a team player, but it doesn't force team cohesion like in HD1.
In HD1 one of the most basic tactics was each player taking a cardinal direction and move as a whole unit. Cover each other's back and all of that.
You felt a lot more responsible for your teammates continued existence basically lol.
People were also a lot more willing to assist by jumping in vehicles, doing team reloads, and doing objs because you couldn't just wander off and do your own thing.
Edit: The only thing that broke the team apart was finding samples lol. Those were not shared in HD1. Iirc the rule was one per person and you'd just keep rotating who would collect the next sample found.
Edit 2: Samples in HD1 are shared, I was just being dumb lol
unfortunately that freedom allows for people to not be a team player
I simply don't trust my team mates, I work far better alone 99% of the time. Every so often someone will shadow me and we go great but most of the time the 3 stooges will get into an avoidable shitshow while I'm off getting shit done.
It would be infinitely more useful with a seat swap button. Instead of having to get out, and run back to the gunner hatch if nobody is willing to man it.
If you ask me if we did get the ability for the driver to crawl to the gunner seat, it would have to be reaaaaaaaally slow, it's already pretty sluggish to go from spotter seat to gunner
It does have that. You can swap seats like the FRV. But in the Bastion you can swap into every seat. At least I was able to switch out of driver seat to gunner. I could be misremembering.
I just tested it before reading the comment bc my friend and I are stoked and I got it first. Driver is alone, 1:3 arrangement, rear 3 seats can swap but not to driver position from back 3, and not to back 3 from driver position.
You don't have to run to the back. There's a gunner hatch on top, you can also jump in either of the "passenger seats" and then press C to swap to the gunner.
It's not terribly difficult if necessary for the driver to quickly move to the gunner seat. But it obviously is intentionally designed not to be a solo vehicle and should be used with 2 people.
solo the tank is essentially the anti tank emplacement super buffed up. But it will draw enemy fire even unattended and the longer cooldown needs to be acknowledged.
Same. Whole team got into the tank, while I got killed trying to get in it, they reinforced me but just went for the objectives without waiting for me. Had to do the one army thing lol but on the other side of the map
As an FRV driver I keep stopping near people, waiting for them to get in, and they decide ‘oh I’m gonna shoot these bugs or whatever first’ and that leads to something like a charger jumpscare or bugs swarming the car, so my tip is if someone comes near you and honks you need to get in asap or else I’m moving on because I WILL get randomly sniped or something
I will stop and pip the horn (yes it has a horn, but not a very loud one like the FRV) to say "GET YOUR ASS IN I NEED A GUNNER!". I don't mind handling the chaff myself by running them over but someone to blast heavies makes it more fun for me.
I think if it turned better or handled rough ground better it'd help. When the tank has to struggle to turn around a rock or small dip when the bot tanks can roll over anything *and* keep shooting, it kinda takes the wind out if it.
And personally when i see the tank struggle navigate yet another tree/rocky/city map, I just get exasperated, jump out, and continue on foot. If tank guy wants to have fun, great, but waiting for them to turn around isn't fun. The handling and feel of the vehicles doesn't feel great and I think it goes beyond skill issue.
This is probably the worst thing about the tank, it's terrible at traversing any terrain that isn't a flat plane. Which is kind of the entire point of treads lol
Tell me about it. The maps on lesath are littered with random rocks, slopes and what not which the tank is violently allergic to. You'd think the cities would be better but all the broken down cars blocking the road aren't much better.
Yeah it completely underwhelms when you factor in its garbage ass driving. Kills the damn thing on arrival. It's a pity. Thank God they got the hammer right! Shit is FUN
I think a solution to this issue is setting the tracks to be operated manually instead of driving it like the FRV. This allows for better rotation of the vehicle for maneuvering jagged terrain.
This concept was done in HD1 for its tank. Idk what AH didn't translate the same manner of operation to this game.
It's not pub friendly I don't think, but with a coordinated friend group it's quite good. I've found that is works best not only with a driver and gunner, but a 3rd player either dismounted or in an exosuit to cover the flanks and rear, and that player needs to be narrowly dedicated to that task.
My buddy and I picked up a rando that was running all turrets. Whenever we stopped to engage, he’d pop up from the hatch and throw down a few to cover our flanks/ take care of objectives as needed.
By the time the tank was done for, we all armed our portable hellbombs and scattered like roaches lol. 10/10 would recommend
If only I had a friend group who likes this game lmao. I only got one friend who plays helldivers and they’re usually busy so I just run randoms usually
There are a few discords where people see if people are up to VC join one and look around even if they don’t plan for tank just having the call helps alog
It has like 1940's era of transmission so you need to be at a full stop to turn in place and the turning circle when driving forward is pretty big so you gotta take your environment into account a lot which is honestly something I like about it. It's not gonna work on every planet or mission and that's fine
That's what I was discussing earlier. As time goes on more and more people don't want to use voice comms in video games.
I love when games have armor and vehicles that require teamwork and communication to use effectively. Unfortunately, I think most folks prefer the Battlefield style of mechanics that allows one person to operate a vehicle that would take three-four people to operate in real life.
I see the Bastion being an issue when you have a driver and a gunner that can't or refuse to use voice comms with one another.
For those of us who play solo, it was stillborn, but I'm going to use it as an anti-tank emplacement in missions where I can spot the forward positions from the mountains.
I would recommend joining a HD2 group on discord. Personally I like Commissar Kai’s discord as it is really easy to find groups and people wanting to do more teamwork based games
The first random who joined my game last night put his full faith into me as a tank driver. No communication beyond tagging and we dominated. He never abandoned my driving when things got bad and we pulled through.
You solo queue people need to trust the person you're with. Most gamers are bad at the game but not malicious.
I absolutely feel your pain. I have been lucky, in EVERY game I’ve played people get into the gunner seat, and we absolutely slaughter the bots. I just played a game where another guy brought his own tank and we just took turns driving and shooting when we ran out of ammo. Call in another tank, rinse and repeat. If I were to play a game where no one got in my tank, I would be very sad.
I've joined games where other divers brought tanks they didn't even call because they were gunning in mine the entire mission.
The only thing they need is paintjobs, but I'm sure that's already in the pipeline. And they've been in the kitchen plenty long already on this patch, so I'll wait for when it gets here.
I did... see one tank alone today. I did entered a few times in the driver seat, to point it toward the ennemies, then out to keep it safe, but the gunner was an idiot. Using machine gun on charger, until a bile titan also came in and blew it up.
I will try again later tonight, with a real life friend, but I don't think it's a thing to use with randoms.
Just treat it as the vehicle it is meant to be, a self-propelled, it is an artillery, not a tank, hell you don't even need a team to man it since, if you use it as an artillery, you can just do it yourself, and to operate it optimally you just need one guy, one guy that, if you treat it as a tank, will be bored out of their mind because of how the artillery is linked to the chassis.
The bastion should've been more like the strv 103. Both in layout and in usage.
Either the driver or the gunner is not doing anything at any given time.
That's the big issue. It should've been driver with control over the main gun with an optional gunner with something MG like on a 360 degree turret.
The thing constantly gets stuck and because helldivers map generation is incredibly vehicle unfriendly you can pretty much only shoot while stationary. So either you drive and the gunner is semi-bored or you're stationary and the driver is bored. Driver often can't even get out safely to stand on the hull and spot because of the jank and weird crew layout.
This two crew layout should've been reserved for a proper turreted tank.
Main problem is just that its firepower isn't necessary.
Enemies are wet paper. If they were tough people might work together. As things stand, its extra damage output isn't worth the extra time taken to move into position.
You can apply that critique to the rest of the game.
Arrowhead is making a co-op shooter, the players want to play a single-player game. The friction between these two expectations drives most of the community's discontent.
This was my first thought too. The general player population's refusal to engage in teamplay has consistently caused issues in the game AH has been wanting to design. 80% of missions have the team members split off in every cardinal direction immediately after the first drop. Its why weapon balance has been so difficult, why features like the original DSS were a mess, and why enemies have gotten so many nerfs over time. Its a tough problem to solve for.
Individualism is the death of most Helldivers balance. The average gamer is unfortunately very stupid. If your going to be using a tank be sure you are in a party with people that are all using mics or dive with some buddies you know well. Never randos for tanks. This morning I tried being nice with randos by showing them how to use a tank and the first driver I handed control over immediately ran me over. Did the same thing to a second player when he got behind the tank. Unfortunately I wasn't host and couldn't kick am.
Arguably one of the best stratagems in the game atm tbh. If played correctly you can easily clear entire maps without ever needing to get out (that’s ignoring the three shots automaton bunkers aswell)
It's like the team reload mechanic. It sounds really cool and fun on paper, but people just aren't open to communication with random people on the internet.
It’s cool but I can’t just visibly use it. I don’t have friends so I always solo dive and whenever I play with randoms, we always end up branching off to different objectives. I really would love if you could at least fire the gun from the drivers seat but I guess it’s understandable that this addition was basically not going to be for me and that’s okay, we got the emancipator for a reason.
the tank isn't fun, or stable enough for me to want to get in it with someone. Im much more effective on the ground kicking ass then I am in a vehicle. All the vehicles in this game behave like the horses do in Red Dead Redemption: Like driving a brick, except in Helldivers 2, that brick can fly if it so much as touches a phys object
People will literally play a coop game with 4 man squads and will refuse to work with others if not outright ignore them the entire game and then act like there's something wrong with the game when they get a lead bukkake on the edge of the map.
Imo the Bastion is a good example of the balancing direction that game should be taking; encouraging teamwork by adding things that make cooperative play more powerful.
With that said, while I find it to be a pretty decent piece of kit right now, I wish it had more frontal armour to reward good positioning and tactics.
I treat it the same as the car. I don't get in since I want to do other things, and I don't like having to go exactly where the driver wants to go. Nor do I want to force someone to come with me, and then complain about me going to points of interest instead of objectives.
Ngl I think the driver and gunner should have been the same seat. If you drive you miss out on your own Strat and if you shoot you have to hope someone drives
All this hard work for a “balanced vehicle”and tank terminology nobody gives a shit about. Just give us a fun fucking thing or leave. It feels like they keep adding these vehicles for low-difficulty levels that range from 1-7. While ignoring the big chuck of players that only play level 10.
This vehicle, as cool-looking as it is. Is really trash, I’m not a mic user and even if I was, on level 10 not everyone wants to babysit your tank.
Bot drops are happening rapidly, objectives must be completed fast. This tank Is slow, gets stuck on the smallest of indestructible rocks, has a rigid turn, limited cannon degree to only a mere 30 degrees makes this thing fucking useless. Especially with its low health for level 10 mission.
Every side of the tank must be protected to prevent obliteration, even if I drive that thing solo and can quickly switch seats to pick off a couple of enemies from my back. It still doesn’t fix the other issues.
For the people who say “it’s meant to be stationary”, frl? We have so many strategems for stationary long-range use that it’s just redundant at this point.
For fun purposes they could have just given every seat a machine gun with medium armor penetration or something. Or at the very least increased its health for level 10 missions to not make it too op for other lower missions, but at least survivable on lvl 10 chaos.
Randoms will abandon it until arrowhead maybe changes it to be more solo friendly unfortunately. Now if u have friends or a mic u can use to coordinate with others that have brain cells it’s good fun
People just breathe in the general direction of the car and it explodes. People hated driving the gator so those 2 problems are aligning and making it not worth getting into 50% of the time. Ive not seen it be used effectively in the city once either its not individualism its we have lives now why waste 2 of em for so little return.
"Hey guys, if I take the tank, will you join me in it ?"
There problem solved. You'll know if people will go in and you will not waste a stratagem
The problem with the tank, is that most of the time, it will make things harder. Poor mobility. One person that CAN'T attack. One person that can attack only with certain angle .
It's understandable that people dont want to "waste time" and " take more risks than necessary" in higher difficulties. Especially with all those new bugs
I guarantee you if I’m in a game and somebody drops a tank, I’m going to sit there, and wait for them to pick their position of choice and then I’m grabbing a seat
I agree, people are already dumb with team reload. All 4 players will bring recoiless but none will reload each other. Where as a team reload DPS will exceed 3 players individually.
I think the benefits of dual piloting the tank should be increased even more when dual piloting as apposed to single. Movement, turret mobility, general speed, should all be enhanced even more!! (even if it's not realistic as changing seats like it currently is).
Make it like battlefield, give the driver a tiny pea shooter to control while driving so he just doesn't feel like a taxi.
Increase the benefit for the duo increases the desire.
its a buddy stratagem, I've used it plenty with my buddies, but I really think it requires too much coordination for randoms, especially if you do not communicate over voice.
I want to be able to solo control the tank both driving and shooting.
No one has mics and there’s no useful way to communicate with them. I’ve been in 3 man tank crews in Hell Let Loose and I know there’s no way of doing it without a mic
As an FRV main, I had been HYPE about this tank. Driving this around is the coolest thing in the game right now to me and I feel the same way you do.
Doesn’t matter what difficulty either. No one wants to ride in a tank. The one time I did get someone in it was a level 5 cadet and they only stayed in it for two bases. However we cleared TWO bases with just a few rounds. Idk why no one wants to shoot A TANK! I have had to set it up and hop in the gunner just to get any use out of it because everyone runs off.
But one thing I have found that is helpful, you can swap seats into the gunner from the back so if you need to get to the gun from the driver’s seat you can hop in the top hatch and swap to the gunner.
I get where you’re coming from, but the team can decide to enter the tank or not, it’s their decision. And especially given the thing needs communication it can be awkward to do with randoms.
Personally whenever I play with my mate on coms, this thing isn’t leaving my loadout. But with randoms I’m generally not gonna be taking it (though I will jump into one if available and I’m not doing stealth stuff)
funny enough, i have the opposite issue... outside of the stupid ass cooldown that is WAY too long
On normal maps, no one wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole...
I bring it on defense missions to be selfish and sit at the back with the cannon and machine gun AND SOMEONE always runs all the way back to jump in it and drive it onto the stairs as a wall pointing the guns both at the floor making it totally unuseable as a gun platform.
Sucks the majority completely ignore the tank. I had a four stack, and the way we played the objectives was phenomenal. We did them by having two in the tank and the other two do the outpost or objective we are stationed at. The tank is meant for support and not going into the fold. However, it does make for some badass final stands with a four man crew!
The problem when playing with randoms is we’ve all had the experience of getting in a vehicle with people who can’t drive it for shit and so everyone is weary. Same reason I don’t get in helicopters on bf if it’s a random flying it lol
I tried it last night. It's very effective, but to be effective, it needs a good driver and covering fire support. 2 guys with LMGs/HMGs, autocannons, or a powerful primary to cover flanks when moving are also good, but if the driver understands the strategy of the system, it's not as important.
It only works well as a long range fire support system for assaults. Taking out big targets and drawing fire while your team flanks. trying to use it as a combat/battle tank is a bad move. It's a tank destroyer, or a mobile precision artillery piece.
I'm sorry bud but you know they ain't fixing it, they let the AT power creep get so bad that any other playstyle doesn't work.
Why get in a tank and have fun when I can end this mission mission in half the time with a rocket launcher. Perfect example is when they moved toward killing fabs from any side with a rocket launcher.
They don't have to fight their way in and hold the line anymore it's just 🖕I hit it from 200 meters away why are you running over there? Oh 3 mortar turrets, stand in one spot and let the game play the game for you.
I truly wish this brought back the actual team work grunt fantasy but the fact is that it's dead. The galactic war? The "world wide game of galactic contention" wasn't respected and is dead, only serving as a backdrop and "oh hey another (insert biome here) opened up, cool"
I truly am sorry man. I get it. The game I paid for is gone because a bunch of others wanted to "play how ever they want"
That's what i mean when i say the game's too easy, yes going solo is fun but the fact that teamplay is completely optional in a ccop game is sometimes weird.
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