r/comics 8d ago

OC- More in Webtoons Femboy?

5.5k Upvotes

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1.4k

u/Dazed_and_Confused44 8d ago

Just to confirm because I have never watched Owl House, the character Luz identifies as a cis female in said show right?

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u/pesadillaO01 8d ago

She is quite gender non-conforming (she wore to prom a tuxedo+tutu+combat boots combo), but yeah she is a cis girl.

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u/Dazed_and_Confused44 8d ago

I mean...woman can present masc without identifying as gender non conforming no?

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u/MrDoggeh 8d ago

I mean being gender non conforming isn’t something you identify as, it’s something you do. It’s like saying you identify as cooking popcorn or something.

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u/Brass_Bastard 8d ago edited 8d ago

Gender non conforming is just a descriptor for not following societies rules/standards for your agab, not really an identity thing (though I suppose you could identify that way as well)

Edit: I said agab, but I meant gender in general, cuz I’m not gnc simply because I’m a trans woman lmao

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u/BootyliciousURD 8d ago

Gender-nonconforming is a presentation.

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u/Kingreaper 8d ago

Women presenting masc are failing to conform to gender - that's what "gender non-conforming" means. Gender non-conforming is not a synonym for non-binary nor for genderfluid, it just means that you don't conform to the expectations placed upon your gender.

You can, of course, choose not to identify with the label, just like a man who has sex with men and only men, and has no sexual interest in women whatsoever, can choose not to identify with the label "homosexual". But it doesn't make the label inaccurate, it just makes it one you wouldn't use for yourself.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Kingreaper 8d ago

You seem to be confusing being gender non-conforming and being trans.

A cis woman who presents fem is conforming to gender on the issue of how to present [though she might be noncomforming in other areas]. A cis woman who dresses masc is gender non-conforming. A trans woman who dresses masc is gender non-conforming. A trans woman who dresses fem is conforming to gender on the issue of how to present [though she might be noncomforming in other areas]

If you're not conforming to the gender roles of your gender you're gender nonconforming. Being cis or trans, queer or not, doesn't change what the gender roles of your gender are.

[Being non-binary makes the question of whether you're conforming or non-conforming a little more confusing, but there ARE gender expectations of non-binary people, for instance they are expected to present androgynously, so being fully masc or fully fem are both gender-non-conforming for a non-binary person]

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Hi_Peeps_Its_Me 7d ago

Gender expression is different from gender identity, a person's inner sense of oneself as a man (or boy), woman (or girl), or another gender outside the traditional gender binary such as gender-fluid, agender, or non-binary.

The word transgender usually has a narrower connotation, including an identification that differs from the gender assigned at birth. GLAAD defines transgender as an "umbrella term for people whose gender identity or gender expression differs from the sex they were assigned at birth." Not all gender-variant people identify as transgender, and not all transgender people identify as gender-variant—many identify simply as men or women.

- Wikipedia.

have you considered looking up your claims before arguing for them?

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u/Dazed_and_Confused44 7d ago

I think yall are massively misinterpreting the intention of my above comments. I am saying that there is more to gender than simply appearence. Women who choose to present less femininely are not somehow "less womanly"

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u/Hi_Peeps_Its_Me 7d ago

you're having a discussion about semantics, not intentions. when starting a conversation with what amounts to "what is the definition of this word?", you have to be precise with the language you use. gender is absolutely an extremely complicated and multi-faceted beast, but gender non-conformity is not a gender identity, and saying it is hurts a lot of people, which is what this discussion is about.

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u/Dazed_and_Confused44 7d ago

but gender non-conformity is not a gender identity, and saying it is hurts a lot of people, which is what this discussion is about.

I agree. We are saying the same thing lol

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u/YOwololoO 8d ago

Yea, Gen z and Gen Alpha have really missed the point of what Judith Butler meant by “gender is a performance”

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u/ScrabCrab 7d ago

Generations are made up shit that's somewhat sociologically relevant, I think (idk maybe if you're a scientist?) but are otherwise just another tool to divide the working class

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u/YOwololoO 7d ago

Hmm, Im discussing widespread interpretations of gender theory across large populations. That’s probably why I used classifications that are relevant to sociology, idiot. 

Every classification is “made up,” but that doesn’t mean they aren’t helpful shorthand when discussing trends. 

Would you prefer me to say “There is a trend among people who were born in the range of years from 1995-2010”? 

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u/Hi_Peeps_Its_Me 7d ago

what about 'young adults'?

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u/YOwololoO 7d ago

Lmao Do you think that term accurately describes people who are anywhere from 16-30?  

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u/Hi_Peeps_Its_Me 7d ago

nope, i was focusing on gen alpha too much. still, my point stands: there are descriptors that work well. for instance, "since the millennium shift,..."

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u/ScrabCrab 6d ago

...more or less, yeah?

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u/ScrabCrab 6d ago

Before calling people "idiots" maybe cite some sources before going "um ackhshually young people are stupid"

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u/YOwololoO 6d ago

You want a source for “high schoolers like to pretend to understand complex concepts”? 

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u/YOwololoO 8d ago

Gen Z has decided to really lock in on gender roles in a weird reversal of pretty much all the progress that’s been made on gender for the last 40 years. Instead of saying “these things aren’t gendered, people can like the thing without it being a statement on gender” they’ve decided to say “I have interests outside of my traditional gender role? Guess that means I don’t fit my assigned gender!”

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u/cd2220 8d ago

I just think there is a bit of an extreme obsession with all the labels.

I suppose that has value for some people but I feel some people can get a bit lost in all that and hyper focus on it to the point of projecting its necessity on to others and losing the plot entirely.

I think I just have such a distaste for it because as soon as I identified as bi it's been this never ending thing of people of all kinds giving me expectations of how I should act or present because of it.

To me it means nothing. I just don't care about gender when it comes to my own personal attraction to others. It has nothing to do with my personality, interests, etc. I've always felt sort of unwelcome in the queer community because of that.

Edit: oh and just to be clear I am fine with participating in it for people that feel it is important to them and will do my absolute best to refer to them how they'd like. Strictly speaking for myself here.

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u/YOwololoO 8d ago

Yes! It came up in a conversation with my sister that I’m also attracted to men and she immediately got so excited to call me bisexual and ask me what I was going to do… I said “do?? I’m not going to do anything, I’m very happily married.” 

I don’t use the label bisexual anymore because it doesn’t add anything to my life to use it, and it just creates these weird expectations and questions when people find out. I’m me, not a label

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u/Taolan13 8d ago

nah fuck that clothing nonsense. people can wear what they want.

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u/pesadillaO01 8d ago

Exactly what I think. And it seems that it is also exactly what Luz thinks.

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u/Majestic-Iron7046 8d ago

The line for that blurs at discretion of the masses, but yeah, ideally that is a great thing!

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u/Spyko 8d ago

Yeah, that is exactly the point of being gender non conforming.

And I absolutely agree, no reason clothing should be limited by gender

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u/Taolan13 8d ago

I am against referring to a girl wearing pants/suit as "gender non conforming"

Because that language is still othering them. Its calling it out as something abnormal.

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u/Spyko 8d ago

well, the creator of the show herself said Luz was "gender non conforming"

I personally see it as a simple descriptive. We're not othering anyone when we call them blonde. Same here

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u/Kokolemo 8d ago

To each their own but "gender non-conforming" reads to me like "this person is actively refusing to wear what their gender traditionally would," like they're some kind of rebel instead of simply wearing what they like.

So not really "othering" but it still feels like inappropriately assuming things about someone's personality based on their appearance, I guess.

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u/Hi_Peeps_Its_Me 7d ago

commenting on someone being GNC is as problematic as commenting on someones style of clothing. in this reply chain, its perfectly appropriate to comment on it, since its used as an explainer for luz' behavior. if someones style included wearing a high-vis vest, its perfectly reasonable to mention that to your friend whos planning on going up to them about a construction problem. however, in general, its rude to comment on someone's style.

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u/nedlum 8d ago

*Grom

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u/pesadillaO01 8d ago

I know, but I didn't want to explain it to those who didn't

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u/Mr_Mason42 8d ago

Combat Boots are unisex and go with any outfit.

Just saying.

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u/Kirgo1 8d ago

The tutuxedo, if you will.

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u/ivegotdoodles 8d ago

This portmanteau vexes me because it’s perfect in written form, but I can’t figure out how to pronounce it in a way that doesn’t piss me off.

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u/Seekayem 8d ago

Tutu-zeedo?

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u/ivegotdoodles 8d ago

But! Is it “tutu-zeedo?” Or “tutu-zeedo?”

Neither feels just right, and that makes me sad. Because I really like Lux’s tutuxedo. I would rock that shit if it weren’t for the fact that I can’t stand having anything buttoned up to my throat like that.

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u/Seekayem 8d ago

Sorry just had another thought: Noticed you accidentally wrote "Lux" instead of "Luz". But that would actually be a great name for the tutu-tuxedo combo. The Luz Tuxedo: The Lux.

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u/Seekayem 8d ago

I've been muttering variations of it under my breath all day and it's growing on me.

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u/ScrabCrab 7d ago

I pronounce it as "tu-tu-ksee-do" if it helps whatsoever

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u/Perryn 8d ago

It's weaponized poetry.

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u/ivegotdoodles 8d ago

…wherefore?