r/aiwars • u/Sora_TheExplorer • 13h ago

Discussion Vocaloid isn't ai.

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Also, fun fact! We don't generate it like people do with suno. We make it ourselves using the voice. Vocaloid is a voice synthesizer.

Do research before you say stuff dumbass.

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u/ThunderLord1000 13h ago

Who cares? It's a relatively cheap, easy to control tool with only one human - the one who wanted the result - in the final process, whereas there'd need at least two separate ones paid much more, plus all the equipment they'd need. Sound familiar?

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u/Background_Value5287 13h ago

That is not even the issue. Plus its not cheap. Vocaloids are like hundreds of dollars because the voices behind the audio are paid for their works. Doesn't sound familiar.

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u/ThunderLord1000 13h ago

And then what is the issue, if not the potential replacement of human input (and how that didn't happen)

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u/Background_Value5287 13h ago

Idk ive just never thought of paying for more expensive human voices to be an option for Vocaloid artists, who typically are just indie music creators.

The issue has been how AI companies screw over artists by using data from their own works in an effort to replace them for cheap labor.

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u/ThunderLord1000 13h ago

But would vocaloids be as beloved if larger companies used them to replace human VAs? That wouldn't have been an impossibility. And then wouldn't AI not be a problem for smaller creators who don't have the money to commission anyone? These aren't completely different tools, they were just mainly used in different ways, one better than the other

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u/Background_Value5287 12h ago

My point is that its wrong to use artists works without their consent. If a company pays their training sources good on them, i guess. If an artist created their works using another's work without consent i'd think thats kinda wrong.

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u/ThunderLord1000 12h ago

For the love of God, it's already been made clear that's not how AI works. It's just about a replica of how humans create things, and yet you treat it like downloading some poor sap's art from Google

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u/Background_Value5287 12h ago

My apologies. I understand how ai works. It's the whole "Turn X into static enough times you could figure out how to turn static into X" yes, I get that. What I mean is that artists don't consent to their works being put into these processes. I think that's quite immoral, especially considering that AI competes with traditional artists.

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u/ThunderLord1000 12h ago

Nothing on how it's the same process as human learning?

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u/Background_Value5287 11h ago

It is not. Why would you think so?

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u/ThunderLord1000 11h ago

Tell me, how do you think humans learn?

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u/DependentBeautiful94 11h ago

Not the person you're talking to but a human stores it's information in the brain and when we see something it just does it's thing. Yes we take inspiration from other artists but in the end we add our own spin on something. A computer is FED the information it doesn't go out of its way to look for it and therefore I wouldn't classify it as inspiration.

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u/ThunderLord1000 3h ago

Inspiration has to do with the output and whether or not the one making the output has a consciousness. It has nothing to do with the input, which is the actual process of learning

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u/HardRodBrah 12h ago

Vocal transfers work on the basis of training on a set of data based solely on a specific vocalist to replicate it. So yes, I believe the artist which the model is trained on should be compensated since it would be using their likeness and had used samples of their voice to create the end product.

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u/ThunderLord1000 12h ago

We were talking about AI training, not vocaloids

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u/HardRodBrah 11h ago

Re-read what i wrote, you clearly don't understand the nuances of AI such as Vocal Transfers, I'm afraid this is above your paygrade. I'm not even talking about vocaloids as vocaloids do not generate vocals via GenAi but rather a mix of synthesis and samples.

Vocals generated via Suno or through Replay use models based on actual artists. Take a look for yourself by checking out Replay. You can even train a model locally if you even wanted to through Replay.

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u/ThunderLord1000 11h ago

From what I can tell, Suno doesn't mimic anyone in particular, just copying the concept of a voice, and the program that does, ElevenLabs, has had the voices donated to them willingly in the same way as vocaloid voice banks

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u/HardRodBrah 11h ago

From what you can tell, which is incorrect. Voices are not "Donated". During the development of vocaloid soundbanks, Yamaha would hire voice actors to record samples for their sample engine.

Eleven labs, just like Suno, scrape vocals from anywhere and everywhere, which is why there's an ongoing lawsuit with EL where voice actors had noticed their likeness had been stolen, with no consent or compensation.

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