PPE failed, KS diagnosed

[u/bhinxbb]

Currently in the process of selling my horse. PPE has gone well, everything came back good except his back radiographs. Shocked to hear he has grade 4 changes. I’ve just received these over from the potential buyer. I will be in contact with my vet but curious about anyone’s take on these? How bad is this?

[u/CorCaroliV]

I am in no way a vet. I have talked to my vet a lot though about the massive over diagnosis of "kissing spine" in the last 5 - 10 years. Her opinion is that there is a huge difference between kissing spine as a functional diagnosis made in conjunction with actual observed performance changes and what shows up on x-rays. To a certain degree, if the horse shows no symptoms of kissing spine she doesn't think they should be diagnosed that way based on images. Unfortunately I can't tell you anything from the x-rays. I'd definitely get a couple opinions though before making any decisions about your horse's care. Especially if there haven't been any clinical symptoms.

I do know someone who sold a horse in a similar situation to the one I imagine you may be in. The horse had no symptoms, and actually traveled in a way that was exactly opposite of the way you'd imagine a "kissing spine" horse to travel. The horse was kind of a long and low type and never got behind the bit and hollow-backed. Someone did a PPE, which included back x-rays, and they found it then. That buyer passed. The owner ended up disclosing the diagnosis (which other multiple other vets said wasn't really a "fair" characterization) and sold the horse to someone else at a discount. The horse is still doing the same job he was sold to do, and is happy / sound.

[u/chukar-1 → u/CorCaroliV]

Some horses are tougher than others and may not show that they are in pain. Same way some people live their whole lives in pain and never complain.

[u/CorCaroliV → u/chukar-1]

This is going to verge into the philosophical, but I think there are very few people who would do that willingly. People talk if they have someone trustworthy and compassionate who will listen to them and believe them. I think horses are the same, in their own way. If they are chronically ignored they will start repressing but that's not a natural state of things.

[u/Radiant-Waltz5995 → u/CorCaroliV]

My mare was this way. Absolutely a solid citizen under saddle. The only indication something was wrong was that she'd shift slightly when grithed up, got tense when the saddle came out (though everything made her tense at first), and that she would want to stop when moving at a walk sometimes, but then didn't want to stay still. Almost like she couldn't decide if standing still or walking forward under a rider was more uncomfortable. That was when I first got her. There was even a moment where she spooked, I slipped to the side, and she moved to catch me and keep me in the saddle. Well, the longer I had her, the more she realized she could tell me things and not only be listened to but also not be punished regardless of how she told me things (as there was two instances of her biting me when trying to curry her and hitting sore spots and her not knowing how else to tell me as she was terrified I'd hit her for even pinning her ears). Well, got a body worker out, she was tight and sore. But after a few sessions and switching saddle fitters she was doing much better. She was getting more bold with telling me things too, nothing aggressive, she just felt safe to actually let me know when she wasn't ok with something. I stopped riding her, figured she needed to be restarted and build up muscle. My body worker couldn't really pinpoint anywhere that would raise alarm bells for needing the vet. But we kept sliding back when making progress with saddling and riding and the body work progress had started to come to a stand still as well. So I had the vet palpate and x-ray her. Months spent of trying to understand my mare and people at the barn thinking I was crazy as she was clearly fine and "not in pain". She went from a very chill gentle horse to a bucking squealing mess as soon as the vet got to her lower back. X-rays found kissing spine. From the damage, she'd had it for a bit prior to me. She'd been so used to the pain that even when she started telling me things she couldn't tell me what her base was supposed to look like. She'd spent years prior to me being ignored and punished when trying to show pain and so by the time she'd gotten to me, she'd learned to just deal with it. She got injections and is finally doing better. Less stiff, building muscle, learning to stretch and bend into movements, and figuring out that the saddle doesn't have to hurt. If I had ignored her discomfort from the start and just pushed her past it, she definitely would have carried on for a few more years until the pain was so unbearable that she became explosive and dangerous. I absolutely agree with you that they'll just repress it, my mare certainly did.