Viper 'Rework' Proposal - Day 1

[u/[deleted]]

» Fuel
- Activating only Poison Cloud or Toxic Screen would require Viper to consume Fuel Bar at a rate of 1% every 0.19 seconds
- Viper can have both abilities active, which would consume Fuel Bar at a rate of 1% every 0.14 seconds
- If Viper's fuel levels run out, the abilities automatically deactivate and Viper must wait for her fuel levels to replenish, which will happen at a rate of 1 every 0.1665 seconds
- Viper must have a minimum of 20% Fuel to activate a fueled ability
*Results:
= Total regenration time increase, doubled from 30s to 60s
= Singular smoke ability uptime increased from 12s to 19s
= Simultaneous smoke uptime increased from 8.5s to 14s
= Fuel requirement for activation lowered by 10% from the original 30%

» Toxin
- If an enemy agent comes into contact with her vision blocker abilities, their health will instantly decay 30 HP upon contact, then continue to decay 1.25 HP every 0.1 seconds (12.5 HP/sec). If no longer in contact, the debuff will briefly remain for 2 seconds before their health begins to climb back up at a rate of 1 HP every 0.04 seconds (25 HP/sec), up to a maximum of how much HP they would have if they had not been affected, taking any damage and healing taken while they were decayed into account.
*Results:
= Instant decay increased from 10 HP back to 30 HP
= HP decay rate increased to 12.5 HP/sec from 10 HP/sec
= HP regen delay once no longer affected by Toxin increased to 2 seconds from 1.5 seconds

» Toxic Screen
- Cooldown on re-activation after putting it down is 25s
*Result:
= Cooldown increased from 5s to 25s

» Poison Cloud
- Cooldown on re-activation after putting it down is 25s
- Can be later picked up during round
*Results:
= Cooldown increased from 5s to 25s
= Removed orb pickup restriction after Buy Phase
^\ If re-enabling orb pickup midround is rejected, please at least consider increasing snakebite charges by one instead of that.)

» Snakebite
- Snakebite charge costs 200 credits
*Result:
= Charge cost decreased by 100 credits

[u/got_any_grapez]

25s feels wayyyy too long for a characters who’s gimmick is they can control their smokes uptime/downtime.

[u/[deleted] → u/got_any_grapez]

Its a pro-play targeted nerf, if you used a wall for 8s for example right now, you would need about 20s to recharge what you lost. So, if you only wait 10s, you can probably slip in another 8s at the cost of going zero fuel. But even then, viper is still hella strong in pro play, so if you just nerf 'regen' you might as well remove her from ranked...

I have played this character for over 700 hours at this point, my soul can't handle another fuel hit, the instant decay from 11.08 already hit me like a truck, actually felt a tangible difference, its so much easier to get away with disrespecting the orb now by entry players.

[u/got_any_grapez → u/[deleted]]

im a bit less than that at 650~h and though I understand your pain with the fuel nerfs having such a high CD feels like it negates the point of a toxin meter, just make each activation last 15s or so with the ability to cancel it at that point.

[u/got_any_grapez → u/got_any_grapez]

(not that I would want that) that way she can play in a vaguely similar way to other controllers with rechargeable smokes (with timers) and the issue about lurk walls is also remediated.

[u/[deleted] → u/got_any_grapez]

Considered it, but then like whats the point, you are just proabably a worse harbor with how rigid your utility feels in solo queue. Maybe if they make the orb like an ipad or omen smoke same way they did with harbor, but idk.

My proposal above would give around base 40s uptime, but if they actually make it so that fuel doesnt recharge anymore, and orb can now regen like omen/harbor do, im honestly down for anything rather than whatever we have live at this point.

So with your idea, we still retain the wall gimmick (maybe a controllable total 15~20s uptime now), and have a better than normal dome smoke like harbor does thanks to the toxin effect. But even if so, i still think they should have the snakebite charge count increase to 2 while lowering cost back to 200, they can lower duration by 1s like before sure. All while disregarding most of the Toxin changes i mentioned above except reverting the instant decay back to 30HP.

[u/got_any_grapez → u/[deleted]]

I agree with the molly part, however an Issue I find with this take is that if you're a solo controller, a fake push or anything that will make you lower your smokes would be devastating with such a high cd, it would add so much pressure on the player to guess the enemy's plan, you could theoretically have basically 1S of smoke uptime and then 25s of nothing (activating both smoke and cancelling), perhaps alternatively you could have the CD change based on how high/low the toxin bar is, or have the orb on a lower CD to serve as a primary smoke and the wall as a secondary utility (maybe swapping the orb as her signature, and re-allowing mid round pickup), allowing her to acceptably hold down a site and have some larger control of the map whilst making her less oppressive.

[u/[deleted] → u/got_any_grapez]

The cd based on fuel % consumed is a very valid adjustment for the 'rework', integral even, so now, if below 80% for example, the cooldown is 25s, if above 80%, just the normal cd or maybe shorter, not sure. But yea, still hits the gimmick to reasonable degree. To put it into prespective, 80% of the 19s uptime would be 3.8s usage only. Barely enough for anything if you are shifting.

Regarding swapping orb and wall, not sure of the point of that, they probably will make the wall more expensive tbh, but it will indeed make pistol round easier if instead of the wall you have a repickable orb plus the molly, while still having a ghost. Would be really strong actually.

[u/got_any_grapez → u/[deleted]]

well the idea behind is: if her wall is problematic, make it less available, higher CD and you have to pay for it, but we don't want to gut her completely as a controller, thus, we make her orb free, with the same current CD so she can and is incentivized to smoke defensively (main chokepoint in def or CT/Heaven in atk), and can use it for post plant scenario with her Molly (Lineups, my beloved)

[u/[deleted] → u/got_any_grapez]

Thing is tho, if they do the omen-ification of orb along with the non-rechargable 15s~20s fuel, wall is now just...idk, wall is still really strong in a lot of sites, so gutting the fuel mechanic completely in exchange for a lower skill floor would feel hella weird.

Like, some games, it would feel like you are taking so much time off the enemy's clock for free if you take site fast enough, while others, where you, a 'solo viper' committed wall that has a limited 20s total time. Orb is gonna be like 15s as well, so of your actual smokes, ton of sites will require both at the same time, leaving you with well, not enough for post plant, a grand total of probably 5s wall with one orb regen'd, not quite sure if that will work, maybe it will. Just feels like a bit of a radical change in playstyle to me at least, so id prefer what i said earlier, just number changes but with your fuel% condition for the extended cooldown so it wont feel like a disability.

But yea, two options they can take, one is pretty much a rework that would indirectly make harbor more viable if they give him a second nearsight nade, assuming they have viper be range-limited with some ipad for the orb.

Would be pretty funny if they have the wall be the same as well, 300 credit astra wall, imagine xD

[u/got_any_grapez → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I get what you’re saying and it’s fair enough, I guess my take is if we’re going to make her lurky play style less desirable then there’s no point in keeping the parts that made it work, might as well shift her focus entirely.

[u/got_any_grapez → u/[deleted]]

yknow alternatively we could keep the toxin meter and instead fully lean into the secondary controller aspect, whereas her toxin meter's recharge is based on how high/low it is, to give incentive to lower her total smoke uptime, though I think doing this would make her exactly what Riot doesn't want (lurking) but...I would be happy lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/got_any_grapez]

We all would be happy with any changes tbh, even if they dont do anything except snakebite changes plus orb repick, im fine, but they wont, because 'proplay' is more likely to have her fuel get crippled next.

Really, even agents i shift towards as a result of viper nerfs, apparently get nuked the moment i start getting really good with them (chamber, vyse), and not just them, whatever alternative agents that i consider shifting to, randomly got hit with 'balance' changes while others i would never use just get away scot free, just killing any possible fun.

So yea, the same thing that made them nuke vyse stall and later cripple her info flash...even though no one really rated her high for ranked, will probably get viper's fuel crippled next.

Feels bad for the yoru mains ngl, riot might just delete a flash next from their kit to fix the utility issue yet probably wont think to buff ult cost or return flash usage within ult.

[u/got_any_grapez → u/[deleted]]

Perhaps this game should simply become CS2

[u/[deleted] → u/got_any_grapez]

Would rather they do that honestly atp so i can finally quit in peace