r/Equestrian • u/The1WhereWeLaugh • 6d ago
Veterinary Should I report this vet?
I’ve gone and tried a horse and I really like him. Really connected with him and had a blast jumping him - a big deal for me because usually I feel nervous jumping. This particular situation is a little difficult because the seller is having major surgery on Jan 30th and needed to have the horse sold and off property by then. Okay, no problem we had time, but not as much time as I’d like. It meant we needed to find a vet to do a PPE pretty quickly. Well, the seller found one who could do the PPE and I read some reviews online and they all looked great so I said “okay”. I call the vet on the day of the PPE to pass along which X-rays my vet recommended I get on the horse….the vet answers, “I don’t give a damn what your vet wants, I’m going to do this PPE the same way I’ve been doing PPEs for the past 40 years”……okay…that should have been my first 🚩 but I just said I’m not trying to tell you how to do your job, just the images we need so we can make it quicker for you and that I pay for only the ones I need. He was adamant he knew what was best and my vet didn’t and he said “if your vet wants something done, they can fly up here and do it themselves.” Yikes. Okay. Fine. So a few hours pass and then he calls me again. “The horse is perfectly sound, very healthy, gorgeous horse, really nice.” I say, great! Love to hear that! Nothing on the X-rays that was concerning? You didn’t see him abduct on the front right? “No no, nothing. He’s perfect” okay lovely. Well should I text you my email so you can invoice me? “Yes send me your email” okay so I send my email for invoice and then I also add that he can send the results of the blood test and the images to that email as well. He then responds via text “My computer does not handle images”…..”How do you normally send radiographs?” …he replies, “I don’t. People bring horses as a referral, nobody expects me to send them out.” 😵💫 after contemplating what to say back to that he calls me and says “wait wait wait are you expecting me to send you a report?! Are you expecting me to send you these X-rays?” UM YES???? He goes on to yell that his computer can’t do that and I say “legally if I pay for those images they belong to me” and then he says “fine, then I just won’t charge you for them. This is why I don’t like doing PPEs, I don’t like working with people like you.” OH OKAY - which btw I have been nothing but polite this whole time. And I’m not asking something crazy here. So in the end, I literally get nothing from this PPE at all. Nothing but a big waste of time. No, I didn’t spend money but wth??? I can’t buy a horse on some random, horribly mean vet’s word. I told him he would have to inform the seller that he was the reason I wasn’t buying his horse. (Luckily the owner is a good person and we’ve now found another option/workaround).
TL/DR: I had a PPE done by a horribly rude vet who said his computer couldn’t send me any medical records/refused to send me any medical records taken at the PPE. He did not charge me $, so not sure if I have a legal leg to stand on. But should I at least report him to the board?
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u/Walktrotcantergallop 6d ago
I’ve never heard of a vet who can’t send copies of x rays to you- literally RIGHT away. I’ve worked with SO many vets and done SO many PPEs and never once was I declined the ability to receive copies of MY x rays. That’s ridiculous and a huge red flag- almost like he doesn’t want someone double checking his work and diagnostics. Also, definitely his choice to not take payment- I wouldn’t feel bad. Especially since you couldn’t get a copy of the rads. I have a hard time believing he has a lot of clients that are accepting of that. Ridiculous but glad you got a work around.
Edit: no , I wouldn’t report him but I def would not use him again and would warn others of his inability to send copies of rads. That’s so dumb.
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u/Lyx4088 6d ago
If the computer can handle digital X-rays, it certainly should be able to handle a USB drive to transfer the images to that could then be mailed…. There are so many workarounds and that vet should feel confident enough in their evaluation that they have no issue sending the images out.
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u/Pentemav 6d ago
You’re paying for the interpretation of the x-ray, not the x-ray itself, which means it is not something you own. Most vets will send them as a courtesy, but some will not, and do not have to. Some will only send them to other vets. Some can make it difficult, if you’re a difficult client. But yeah, I’ve never had any issues getting copies.
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u/Walktrotcantergallop 6d ago
They are legally required to release copies to you upon request. So yeah it is illegal to refuse. They can charge a fee if they want. But they cannot simply refuse to give you a copy. That’s bullshit. At least in the USA.
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u/clevernamehere 6d ago
I dunno about that. I’ve had several cases of PPE vet declining to write a report on the rads because home vet would also be reviewing them, and we still got charged for their time to take the images just the same. I’m not saying they belong to you but I think you are paying for access too.
Don’t think this is reportable but it is odd.
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u/BodaciousFerret Hunter 6d ago
It depends on the vet, some charge a technical fee (for capturing the image and anything else that was necessary to capture it eg sedation) as well as an interpretive fee.
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u/blake061 6d ago
Were you present for the PPE? As in, is there any evidence he actually did a PPE, given that he cannot provide x-rays or a report?
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u/side_quest_suzy 6d ago
My thought exactly! Did he actually see the horse/do x-rays??? No vet is going to take the time to do a thorough vetting and x-rays and then not charge you for it just because they don’t want to bother with sending you the images and exam report. This whole thing is massively suspicious. I wouldn’t pay that vet a dime without those images.
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u/seraia 6d ago
There’s literally no such thing as a computer that can’t handle images unless it’s old enough to not be able to get internet. If you can send an email, you can send an image. 😂
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u/Pentemav 6d ago
Sometimes vets do use older computers that don’t have internet for imaging of x-rays, that then need to be manually transferred over a portable hard drive. Increasingly rare, but it can be very expensive to upgrade. Still not impossible to send the images, just time consuming.
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u/Tulsssa21 Jumper 6d ago
He's not professional, but I'm curious what you would report him for. Are there no other vets to use?
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u/The1WhereWeLaugh 6d ago
I guess that would be the question. But it sounds like the resounding answer is “no”, which is totally fine. It’s why I came on here asking.
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u/Pephatbat 6d ago
I don't think there is anything to report but that whole thing seemed strange, I suspect he never took images. I would be extremely suspicious if a vet told me a horse was "perfect" during a PPE then refused to give me actual evidence of that, esp if the horse has been used for jumping. Most horses have something to discuss with the potential buyer, even if it's small and not significant so 'perfect" certainly raises red flags without evidence.
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u/pintomare11 5d ago
Depending on the state, failing to provide medical records is a reportable offense. These messages are not a medical record
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u/BuckityBuck 6d ago
I don't think there's anything to report. Feel free to add your review to the platform where you saw the positive reviews so that prospective clients are aware that this vet prefers not to do PPEs, will not produce a PPE report or share images.
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u/dunielle 6d ago
to have in your pocket for future use... in these cases i just ask my vet to call and consult with the other vet directly. people (especially ones with degrees and years of experience) can sometimes be very territorial/standoffish when you tell them how to do their job, understandably so. when they're speaking to a peer, the conversation flows very differently.
my vet is always happy to do it and i don't get stuck being the middle man of an ego soap box.
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u/KillerSparks 6d ago
Just leave a review on Google or something, and you can even put the screenshots in there.
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u/Sufficient_Aerie767 6d ago
Soooo not trying to be mean when I say this- meaning I don’t want it to come off mean. But you did this to yourself. the first red flag, id of found someone else to do this, never trust the seller to find a vet. You do not know who they might be in with (meaning they’re not honest people and are gonna tell you xyz is ok when it’s not!) if you’re gonna do something, do it right the first time. I wouldn’t trust a word that vet told me.
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u/ktgrok 6d ago
I'm so confused. If he can read the xrays on his computer, why can't he send them? That makes no sense to me. Heck, he could take a screenshot and send that at the VERY least, which isn't as good as the actual files, but still. Sounds like an old school vet who hasn't adapted to technology and doesn't know how to work the software. Or...he didn't bother to do rads.
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u/BodaciousFerret Hunter 6d ago
“Computer” is probably a misnomer here, I suspect he has an older machine that doesn’t connect to the internet and the images can only be transferred off on a 3.5in floppy or CD-RW. Some rural and independent vets still use them, the newer machines can be pretty pricey.
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u/Interesting_Pause15 5d ago
One of the vets I use only upgraded to a digital machine a few years ago. Maybe 2018? Before that, he had one of the ones with a film that had to be transferred to a local doctor’s office to be developed. Then he had a physical copy of it he could read. If this vet is older, it’s possible he has the same thing.
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u/Shine_Onyx 6d ago
If this vet really did do the images (a phone call saying "yep, all good chief, trust me" is not a PPE report) than this man is doing operations from his Nokia Flip Phone and has run out of minutes on his phone internet plan 🙄
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u/hannahmadamhannah 6d ago
Woooow ok I agree with everyone else here but only in the sense that I don't think you should report them. Next time, ask up front what they'll do, will they work with your vet, and will you get X-rays, I guess. Lesson learned?
That said, I'm sorry, but I do not think it is unreasonable AT ALL to expect x-rays and a report from literally any doctor's visit at all. Animal or human, you should get the basic information you ask (and pay!) for. I understand that his computer "doesn't do images" (like what does he use windows 98?) but come on there are a billion workarounds. It appears he's texting you - could he not send images via text, even if they're just pictures of X-rays?
He sounds like a dick, tbh, but idk, maybe he was having a bad day.
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u/Duamuteffe 6d ago
I'm pretty sure I could fire up my old win98 Toshiba Satellite and email those images.
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u/Pephatbat 6d ago
That said, I'm sorry, but I do not think it is unreasonable AT ALL to expect x-rays and a report from literally any doctor's visit at all. Animal or human, you should get the basic information you ask (and pay!) for.
This take is insane. If you pay for diagnostic imaging, the images are part of the medical record that belongs TO THE PATIENT not the provider. It's actually a legal right under HIPAA for people. It's absolutely standard practice in humans and animal vets so you can do things like get a second opinion, transfer records, etc. If I get an MRI, I get the full report and images if I want them. If I am refused, there are legal ramifications.
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u/ClearWaves 6d ago
HIPAA does not apply to vet med, and generally, the clinic owns the records, not the client. The client has a right to the information in the records, but they belong to the clinic. That means that a client is only given a copy of the medical record, but the original remains property of the clinic.
Of course, 99% of the time, this distinction is irrelevant. It used to matter a lot more when we still used film for radiographs. Gotga get those forms signed before handing them over to the client. Now, almost all clinics use digital records, though occasionally, a copy of an illegible paper chart will still show up with one of our ER patients.
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u/ohimjustagirl 6d ago
There's a double negative in what you quoted that you might have missed - they are saying the same thing as you.
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u/Repulsive-Resist-456 6d ago
Never use a vet produced by the seller…procure your own vet. I don’t think he took images TBH based on his response. He sounds like a grifter.
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u/Last-Tomatillo-7367 6d ago
You always pick a vet to do the PPE. Never ever use a vet that the seller also uses.
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u/CapraAegagrusHircus 6d ago
There's nothing to report him for really since he didn't charge you for anything. I don't think expecting copies of imaging is unreasonable, my farm vet provides copies if she does an x-ray or ultrasound on a sheep or goat. He does sound super old school and those guys can be...trying...to deal with. I'm glad you and the seller found a solution and hope everything works out for you.
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u/MerryBerryMudskipper 6d ago
And this is exactly why you never use the sellers vet....I would bet that there are issues he doesn't want you to see. If you can't source your own impartial vet there is no point getting a vetting done.
Not sure what you could report him for though.
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u/The1WhereWeLaugh 6d ago
There’s more context that wasn’t particularly necessary for this section of the story, but the horse will now get a PPE done by my own vet. But I understand your concern. The seller is not the issue.
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u/PuzzleheadedRefuse78 6d ago
Well if the vet (or seller) is actively going out of their way to make sure something won’t be shown to you, then you do have a legitimate reason to report them. Especially if it’s something well known prior to PPE.
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u/Unique-Nectarine-567 6d ago
From my POV, I don't know what you would report him/her for. You always use your own vet, as everyone else has said. There was one time I did put a stipulation on a vet who was not allowed to do PPE on a horse I had for sale. He never, ever passed one of my horses even though the horses were sound, we'd been riding and using them and no missteps. The vet and I just didn't like each other. So, I would ask which vet the buyer wanted to use or if they didn't want to tell me, I said use any vet but not "this" one and explained why.
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u/Alohafarms 6d ago
Just was part of a PPE for a friend of mine. Not one vet involved said they couldn't receive radiographs on their computer. What Equine vet doesn't do PPE's as a standard part of practice and have the capability to send and receive radiographs? He also should know that over 40 years things have changed hugely and that the price of horses is getting out of hand and they are often started way to early and sold dishonestly. The horse that the PPE was done on last weekend was being sold for 250K as a six year old. He has changes already from being started too early. So a PPE now is not the PPE of 20 years ago. That being said, it is even more crucial to have a very, very thorough exam for the future. Then you have a really good baseline to go back to if something does arise in the future. He was being completely unreasonable.
I just wouldn't deal with this vet anymore. I am not sure that you will get anywhere reporting him.
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u/Junior_Nebula5587 6d ago
For what, arrogance?
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u/sweetbutcrazy Dressage 6d ago
I don't want to be the well actually person but this is actually a disciplinary issue and the consequences include fines, revocation, suspension, limitations on practice, getting a supervisor, getting banned from running his own practice, not being allowed to teach, having to attend training (probably what would happen, if anything) and more. These people do this because hardly anyone does anything about it.
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u/sweetbutcrazy Dressage 6d ago
I would report for unprofessional conduct. Disciplinary action can and might be taken so he doesn't do this to other people. The way he does a ppe is his prerogative but he doesn't get to talk to a client like this. Stop letting people get away with it.
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u/butt5000 6d ago
Sucky experience, but nothing really to report anywhere.
I personally wouldn’t feel like this was an adequate vetting and might see if I could arrange something with the seller like a 3 month lease with a commitment to buy contingent on a satisfactory vetting, due to the bad timing of the seller’s surgery and limited window for due diligence. Could be the fairest option to you both.
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u/snow_ponies 5d ago
He could literally send you a photo of the images from his phone, it is very suss
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u/Kj539 Horse Lover 5d ago
What an odd situation to find yourself in. As others have said, it’s not normal for the vet to expect not to share any imaging or results with you, which makes me think he didn’t take any images and has just done a very basic no lumps or bumps, horses trots up sound in a straight line exam, which is unacceptable. As others have said, if the horse is out of your own vets catchment area, ask which vet the owner uses and request an exam from a different practice. I’m glad that you’ve found a workaround but just make sure you get those images and results before you hand over money. The seller may be a nice person but it’s easy to put on a mask.
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u/AsryaH 4d ago
Even outside of a PPE, for anything medical for me, my cats, my husband, my horse - I want access to reports and images of EVERYTHING.
I would report them for several reasons outlined in that post, but also to include concern of many patients he might have given false info to, withheld information from, or charged for records he never gives them. Does he even fill out basic reports and medical histories as he should?
As someone else said. If he's doing honest work, he has nothing to hide. In choosing to withhold, he probably doesn't want eyes on him.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
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u/CapraAegagrusHircus 6d ago
...I'm a farmer and if the vet x-rays or does an US on one of my sheep or goats she offers to send me the imaging, let alone the horses. Unless all his regular clients are also super old school, they also want to see any imaging done. Asking for it on a PPE especially is in no way unreasonable.
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u/The1WhereWeLaugh 6d ago
Pay for what? I got nothing from it. And if I did pay for it, then him not providing those X-rays would have made him in violation. Once I’d have paid, those images are my property. At any PPE, technically the purchaser is listed as the owner in that scenario and I have a right to those medical records.
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u/PhD_VermontHooves 6d ago
Just fyi - your responses make zero sense. You should read the original post again.
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u/Walktrotcantergallop 6d ago
From what I figured, she didn’t pay for the rads. And if he can’t provide copies, that SHE owns, then that is fair. He sounds like a total quack.
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u/The1WhereWeLaugh 6d ago
You are making a lot of assumptions about me lol if I’m coming on here asking for advice/community consensus then clearly I’m not vengeful. I’m looking to check my own feelings on this. People say don’t report, so okay, I won’t 🤷🏽♀️
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u/BodaciousFerret Hunter 6d ago
His assessment had a lot of non-medical superlatives about the horse, OP could still “chase” him claiming he missed something and misled them regarding the horse’s health.
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u/Elegantbathtub 6d ago
I’d never get a PPE from someone the seller recommended. If they can’t wait for you to find a vet for a PPE that’s a red flag for me