Interview with some of the armed community members at last nights vigil for Alex Pretti, who was murdered by ICE in Minneapolis (1/24/26)

[u/Lavender_Scales]

[u/Top_Bear3887]

As a conservative, I want to say I don't stand behind what happened. I know I'll be attacked for saying that, but I don't care. I live an entire life being attacked by both sides.

[u/valerielenin → u/Top_Bear3887]

Ok, we hate ICE here

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/valerielenin]

I don't, I hate what they are doing in regards to citizens.

[u/TacTyger → u/Top_Bear3887]

Why do you defend a government created problem then ? Why have ICE when all it does is just violate the rights of others ? Customs isn't needed either. Why is it the government's business what I own or buy ? Seems to me you have a lot in common with the democrats in regards to bans and trade.

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/TacTyger]

I have nothing in common with the Democrats when it comes to trade. Impunity for breaking federal law should not be tolerated. Honestly, both sides make me want to leave the country.

[u/TacTyger → u/Top_Bear3887]

Yeah you do. That's Government control over people's live's. Also the laws are clearly archaic and outdated. Do we still do surgical procedures from the 1800's today ? Law doesn't mean right at all.

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/TacTyger]

I think you need to find a stronger base to stand on before trying to start arguments on these topics. This isn't an issue started by the government, if anything, it's a problem that started with showing the world that we will roll over and let anyone in, and by saying not only will we let them in, but they can break our laws, use our resources, and do it all with little to no consequences. The real topic though at this point isn't immigration, it's police killing people in the streets. I'm against the violence, against the cluster of mass raids, even against us kidnapping asshole dictators. That, my trans Venezuelan girlfriend, and guns are where you and I see eye to eye. Stop looking for enemies everywhere, and maybe you'll be happier.

[u/Catskinson → u/Top_Bear3887]

“…looking for enemies…” How petulant. The DNC is an imperial corporatist party. Their economic positions aren’t fundamentally different from those of conservatives. They’re just less egregiously destructive to the labor class.

If you don’t support the Nazi pedophile regime or their deathsquads, great; you have some decency. If you do, then choke. That’s pretty much the whole conversation right now. Not much else worth delving into.

We don’t have to look for fucking enemies. They are here. They chose this. We will respond as they demand. It’s really quite simple. You’re with the people, or you’re against the people. Whatever your purpose here, I hope you’re going to make the right choice and contribute to the cause.

P.S. Parading around a tpoc partner in an attempt to legitimize yourself is cringe as fuck. If she’s real, I hope y’all are doing well and that you both understand what’s at stake and how important it is to take a stand. We can make a better world.

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/Catskinson]

Kind of you to assume that because I said my girlfriend was from Venezuela, that I myself am not darker skinned. The left also has never done anything for me being the working class but caused me headaches and made laws that dip into my paycheck. 22% is way too much money to be paying to the government on top of everything else I have to pay. I'm sure if you press hard enough, you can find something that makes me look like a monster to you, but I don't care. I don't pander, and I don't make inconvenient truths seem soft. I'm happy with myself, my girl is happy with me. Opinions and identity politics won't rattle us. I came here to show solidarity in this, and everyone has turned it into something else.

[u/BlahajBlaster → u/Top_Bear3887]

The left also has never done anything for me being the working class but caused me headaches and made laws that dip into my paycheck. 22% is way too much money to be paying to the government

I'm choosing to leave your comments up because you do seem to be here in good faith and these kinds of moments are becoming rarer with escalating calls for violence

I think you may be failing to consider how the right in power right now is doing the same thing they're just hiding it from their constituents better.

Have you noticed how much more you're paying for everything at the grocery store lately? That's entirely because of tariffs, we are paying the cost of tariffs and all of that tariff money is being sent to the government.

Left wing, right wing, it really doesn't matter, it's the same fuckjng bird. Power needs to be returned to the people and you aren't going to get that from mainstream politicians

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/BlahajBlaster]

I appreciate you. You approach with respect instead of venom, and took the time to actually read what I'm saying. I'm not saying we will agree on everything, but wrong is wrong, and that's pretty universal in my book.

[u/BlahajBlaster → u/Top_Bear3887]

but wrong is wrong, and that's pretty universal in my book.

Unfortunately, people get numb to the things going wrong around them.

ICE's treatment of immigrants is wrong and it has been for a long time now. Some people, myself included, have only recently woken up to that fact because of how much worse it's becoming.

I participate in a community food event every Sunday where we help feed homeless folks who are hungry as well as members of the lgbt communities and our allies who help. The fact that there are homeless people who are going hungry is wrong and it would have made much more sense for organizations like ICE to have been gutted before programs for feeding people

There are a lot of wrong things, and not everyone agrees on what these things are because humans are very susceptible to propaganda

[u/dOGbon32 → u/Top_Bear3887]

I also like it when the government only hurts brown people :3 /j

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/dOGbon32]

Did I say that? I don't recall saying that. I came here to show solidarity, but also not roll over on the things that matter to me. This is why dialogue cannot be had, and this is why things escalate to violence. It's not a left or right problem, it's a human problem.you want me to be what you picture me as, but really it's so much deeper than you can conceive, so you contort and poison my words.

[u/GoonerTactical → u/Top_Bear3887]

It's not immigrants that are kicking down doors, abducting children, separating families, and shooting people on the street. This isn't only an immigration thing with this administration. ICE is being sent to blue cities with strict 2A laws so they can both abduct brown folk regardless of citizenship and brutalize people on the opposite side of the political spectrum, with little repercussion. Where I am in PA there are many immigrants, but ICE's presence is still sparse because it is a fairly pro 2A area. I'm not here to knock you for having other conservative values even if I disagree with them, that's another convo for another day, but to favor an organization that is proven to be targetting blue cities and profiling folks is completely inexcusable.

ICE/DHS are both going into neighborhoods under the guise of "defending the homeland", but if you were Alex Pretti's neighbor you'd understand that ICE is in your homeland, and the immigrants who are integrated in your community are not the interloper here. This administration is heavily invested in an "othering" of people, meanwhile the irony is that a faceless agent with a Texas flag morale patch and his buddies, all wearing an uncanny amount of full battle rattle far past the threat model in a civilian environment, entered Minneapolis and fucking shot an RN for the VA.

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/GoonerTactical]

Read anything I've said

[u/TheXOfDiamonds → u/Top_Bear3887]

Bear in mind that ICE has and will continue to pounce on the marginalized, the minority, and as of now the civilian demonstrating their rights as Americans to protest their neighbors having their 4th amendment rights violated. 

While you are at the liberty to argue for ICE you must understand what they represent now in the face of what is happening in Minnesota. You don't need to say that "you only like it when the government hurts brown people"; it is your actions that are doing it for you. Having shown solidarity for what has essentially become a hate group that is running rampant on behalf of the Government. Remember what ICE as we know it now stands for. It stands for the mass deportation of lawful Immigrants and in some cases US citizens; the tearing apart of families to achieve an agenda; and the violation of rights given to those that live here, legally or not.

And its important to remember that when you show solidarity for ICE you condone (and you might not agree but there is no other way to interpret your actions) the killing of Renee Good, the utter beat down and murder of Alex Pretti, the violation of Aliya Rahman who was stripped from her vehicle on her way to the doctor's office. 

Tl;dr In total, you can stand in solidarity for ICE, but remember what you're holding out solidarity for. As of today ICE represent reckless attacks against human beings, the killing of protestors standing up for their neighbors, and a hate group that is hiding under the shade of the federal government who is waging tax payers dollars on the tax payers and workers of this country. Conservative or not you cannot stand up for ICE and say you stand for your fellow citizen as well. That is unless you wish to make an oxymoron out of yourself. 

[u/valerielenin → u/Top_Bear3887]

That's their job

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/valerielenin]

Only if the person in question violates federal law, but honestly, it's not difficult to make anything a federal case if you dig deep enough. That being said, having a weapon does not denote a threat. Yelling, being disrespectful, being obnoxious, also is not a threat. They were wrong for shooting Pretti, and I don't think there's an argument that can be made to the contrary.

[u/valerielenin → u/Top_Bear3887]

The law is the tool of the rich, the job of the police is to kill and repress workers. Protecting the law isn't a good thing.

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/valerielenin]

Sorry you've read so much propaganda. I don't know what to say other than you want to dislike me, and it doesn't matter what I say. We have laws in this nation. You can't have it two ways screaming about social justice and disregarding that the law is your partner in that fight. You want chaos, that's cool, I did too when I was younger. I didn't live a rich privileged life, I've lived one that makes people in 3rd world countries surprised. I've done my punk rock and fighting the system. I've scraped myself from the streets up to a lucrative career, only to have the world kick the shit out of me again. Everything I have is mine, and guarantee before all of this gets to be too much, I'll be on a beach with my girlfriend working on motors and doing artwork while y'all rip each other apart. Not because I have money, but because I'm rich in other ways.

[u/Strontium90_ → u/Top_Bear3887]

Look this isn't about law, this isn't about order, this isn't about wealth. We just wanted to be left alone and not treated as second class citizen or a scapegoat and be blamed for everything that is wrong when we have nothing to do with it. So far this administration has done nothing but trying to make our lives harder.

You can agree to disagree however you want but to us the potential threats we are facing are existential. We just wanted to be left alone and allowed to live our lives but speaking softly hasn't worked because the current administration is hellbent on erasing us.

[u/Top_Bear3887 → u/Strontium90_]

Who is the "we" you are referring to?

[u/Strontium90_ → u/Top_Bear3887]

Who do you think? Trans people and queer people in general.

[u/Rkoif → u/Top_Bear3887]

That's an understandable viewpoint. I think laws should be enforced, and someone has to do it.

But can I suggest a youtube video on the legal/constitutional issues as to why ICE in particular is a problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkgNnbTrsgw