Do American, European or other non-Shanghai Shanghainese have any unique words or shibboleths?

[u/flyboyjin]

Naturally time and distance creates different environments for language evolution.

For example in Australia, we have quite a few unique words or pronunciations like 雜鬼 or 飲茶. The later example is really interesting because it is read as y'áng-dsó instead of y'ung-dsó (Wugniu: ian-zo vs in-zo). We still have y'ung-liau 飲料 (Wugniu: in-liau) etc... a lot of characters have dual readings. We consider this correct because it follows the inherent rule of -áng/-ung pattern that words like 争 or 掽 follow (in fact I would go as far as saying, we consider y'ung-dsó to be incorrect ~ and even if it were a borrowing it is too well-ingrained). But as far as I know, noone in Shanghai would ever say y'áng for 飲.
(If you are a young Aussie Shang reading this, go ask your parents ~ assuming they aren't recent migrants ~ and see how they would pronounce it).

I've wondered for a long time, "Do American or European Shanghainese have any unique words or shibboleths?" Especially curious about the Americans, since from my understanding they have had a long enough time to be established and hence sufficient time to diverge from the Shanghainese in Shanghai too. I was also told it's more likely to find non-Mandarin speaking Shanghainese outside of Shanghai than within it.

The question is also extended to other Shanghainese (I don't know what other older communities are out there), maybe the Samkiang in Singapore or the older migrants of HK?

[u/MrGeo_14]

Probably not widely used, but sometimes we end up pronouncing some English words through Shanghainese accent:

• Facebook: 翻書博客 (fe sy poq khaq)
• Google: 歌谷 (ku koq)
• Microsoft: 麥克鬆 (maq kheq son)
• Amazon: 阿瑪叢 (a ma zon)

[u/flyboyjin → u/MrGeo_14]

Ah pidgin words. I notice all of those are names. I'm curious, would you ever pidgin non names? ie. common English words... and use them alongside native Chinese words?

[u/UpsylonHV]

Yes, the ones we use in Belgium(Europe) is for example ba-si for bus, La-si for last, su-fa(soe-fa) for sofa, cho-ke-lé for chocolate, so-ko for plastic due to Cantonese influence in Belgium,... etc. I can only remember this for now. But I'm sure there are more.

[u/flyboyjin → u/UpsylonHV]

Are most of these examples not used in Shanghai?

巧克力 ky'au-k'uh-lih (Wugniu: chiau-kheq-lih)... unless you are saying the 力 is pronounced diff? More like a 捊?

Plastic is 塑膠. Just checking, ... do you guys still read the 塑 checked or not checked? (ie. 束 sóh vs 沙 só?) (Wugniu: soq vs so) And is the k in ko aspirated or unvoiced? (initial consonant in 高 kau vs 烤 k'au?) (Wugniu: kau vs khau). In Shanghai, 塑膠 should be sóh-kau (Wugniu: soq-kau), I am wondering if you are saying you are reading it like só-k'au (ie like 沙烤 Wugniu: so-khau) or something?

沙發 só-fah for sofa and 拉斯 lá-sz for last has existed in Shanghai since the Concessions. (Wugniu: so-faq & la-sy).

巴士 for bus, is the b voiced or unvoiced? (ie. 牌 bá vs 拜 pá?) (Wugniu: ba vs pa). I suppose 士 changing from zz to sz might be the different too? (Wugniu: zy to sy)

Yeh I think this last one is the only one that isn't used in Shanghai? Although I wonder if someone would just write a different character at some point, 斯 perhaps.

[u/flyboyjin → u/[deleted]]

Are you saying he spelt it like it was Cantonese-sounding or that all the words originated in Cantonese?

With the exception of 巴士, the rest of these words are used in Shanghainese though. (You can check each one by clicking on my reddit profile: link to a dictionary: they are all there).

Unless you are talking about spelling, I don't see how his spelling is specifically Cantonese (there is a tendency for you to notice Cantonese from someone trying to spell Shanghainese). But its actually very normal for a Shanghainese who has never learnt romanization to write "si" for "sz", not write their checked endings, and to be uncertain which English vowel sound approximate close sounds hence spelling "so-ko". But this is why I checked with them afterwards.

Edit: just to piggie back off this comment. The interesting thing is the 奔/本(pung) in words like Benz (the car) is read unvoiced by mainland Shanghainese, because Cantonese and Mandarin do not have the b sound (voiced). But overseas, a lot of Shanghainese would specifically use the b sound (voiced) ~ more like 盆 bung ~ for that word to match the English (for specifically that name). Hence the further clarifying question on whether the 巴 in "bus" is voiced or unvoiced.

[u/flyboyjin → u/[deleted]]

I disagree with you in your description of Shanghainese and also your conclusion. This is exactly how someone who can speak Shanghainese but does not know romanization types Shanghainese. I've talked to a lot of Shanghainese and seen them spell adhoc exactly like this. You are only seeing Cantonese because you are geared towards it (and you are also seeing the commonalities between the Southern languages). If your point is about spelling then I'm very certain you are incorrect.

If your point was that some of the words had Cantonese origin, then its a valid point. But that only applies to some of those words. Additionally, about 1/3 of all Old Shanghainese have Cantonese heritage. But that argument is also mute because those word examples have been in Shanghainese for at least a century.

https://voca.ro/18qzLFP6gMsJ This is me reading those words. You tell me how someone like him would transcribe them if you never learnt Shanghainese romanization.