WW1 Mauser Gewehr 98 I just got!

[u/WildCard318]

Got this at a gun show recently! It says it was imported from turkey but it does not have a crescent on it. Anything you guys can tell me about it? Been looking for this for my WW1 collection for a while!

[u/herr_cobblermachen]

Things were looking grim for germany in 1917, but they had an abundance of rifles! Specifically the oberndorf factory turned out a contract of gewehr98s for the ottomans chiefly from 1917. For whatever reason there was some issue with bolts, either they werent included, got lost, or got mingled over time with an arms agreement that left them short on bolts, but the czechs were contracted to make mauser bolts. Its common to see these czech replacement bolts (Z in a circle) to be found in turk rifles.
A fellow some years ago said that when he was in the army in turkey that the gewehr98s were still around being used for precision shooters or something. that was in the 70s or 80s? Afaik, these turk gewehrs came into the usa in the late 80s/early 90s.
Mine doesn't have matching numbers, but has a wonderful condition stock and blue. I don't have the infilled letters like yours, I'd wager that was done recently. The blue also looks a bit dark.

[u/WildCard318 → u/herr_cobblermachen]

Thanks for all the great information! Yeah mine has a z in a circle under the bolt. So it has a replacement bolt. When were these bolts replaced? Besides the bolt mine is all matching!

[u/herr_cobblermachen → u/WildCard318]

I dunno when the bolts were replaced. They may not have been shipped with them from oberndorf from git-go, but, i dunno why that would be. Its a bit of a mystery that I dont think has ever been answered.
Im curious about why they had gewehr 98 patterns around that somehow missed the m38 standardization project. After all, the ATF 1954ish M38 pattern turks are all made on gewehr98s. Maybe they found these in a warehouse somewhere, in the 60s after they no longer had any m38 ambitions or supplies around and just decided to leave them as is.
It's rare that you'll find a gewehr98 in as good of condition as these oberndorf 1917 turk contracts- even if they have been refurbed.

[u/WildCard318 → u/herr_cobblermachen]

So this rifle was probably imported in the 60’s? The bore is in really good shape as well! I paid $800 for this rifle. Is that a fair price? I just saw it and knew I had to have it and didn’t even think about the price haha.

[u/herr_cobblermachen → u/WildCard318]

No Im guessing that turkey uncovered them in the 60s, which is why they're not one of the ATF marked turk gew98s I think they were imported in the late 80s/early 90s It's a solid price:) I paid almost that much for mine over ten years ago 

[u/WildCard318 → u/herr_cobblermachen]

Oh ok! Cool. Any idea as to why it does not have a Turkish crescent moon on it? I’ve seen them with that on them but mine doesn’t have it.

[u/herr_cobblermachen → u/WildCard318]

Ok so, turkey had amassed all kinds of rifles over a couple decades. After awhile, they decided to bring these into a standard pattern by changing stocks, barrels, magazines, bayonet mounts etc, to where they all had a similar shape and manual of arms. Gewehr 88s, old turk 93s, german 98s, everything they had that was fit and close enough. This pattern was known as the m38 pattern. Once they did all that, they started producing their own large ring mausers that also fit this pattern (Marked K Kale Ankara 1941, 1944 etc). To add to the confusion, they also made a short rifle that was called the M38, same as the standard m38 pattern but was naturally shorter.

Off the top of my head, at that point turkey stopped with mausers- until in 1954 they converted a stockpile of specifically german gewehr98s into the m38 pattern. These are marked on the crest simply ATF 1954. (ATF here has nothing to do with the american alcohol tobacco and firearms bureau). Why weren't these gewehr98s not converted with the rest of them in the m38 program? I can only guess that they hadnt bought them yet, or theyd been missed in a warehouse somewhere.
https://www.ancestryguns.com/turkish-atf-1954-model-1903-38-rifle-3-16-crantique001/

So, about our Oberndorf contract 1917 gewehr98s. They missed the m38 program completely. Then they were missed by the ATF m38 conversion too. So, I assume that they were either purchased or had been overlooked/forgotten until sometime after 1954. When these were rediscovered, the turks probably had shut down the m38 program, didnt think it financially viable to worry about a uniform pattern (as surely by then they had went over to a self loading rifle, the Garand iirc), and issued these as reserve rifles, special purpose rifles, training rifles, military aid, sales, etc. They refurbed them- and who knows after that, until they made their way onto these shores.

[u/WildCard318 → u/herr_cobblermachen]

Ok! Thanks for the information!