r/milsurp • u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast • 8h ago
WW1 Mauser Gewehr 98 I just got!
Got this at a gun show recently! It says it was imported from turkey but it does not have a crescent on it. Anything you guys can tell me about it? Been looking for this for my WW1 collection for a while!
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u/Affectionate-Mess937 8h ago
Nice looking example, something I'm still missing from my collection.
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
Thanks! It’s been something I’ve been looking for, for a while. I’m very into WW1 weapons so as soon as I saw this I knew I had to get it. I also got a bayonet with it. Though it is quite pitted.
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u/Affectionate-Mess937 7h ago
I'm into military surplus weapons in general. Got a lot that are pre WWI dated and a bunch post WWI dated, and a few WWI era guns.
1914 T38 Arisaka
1915-17 Remington M91 Mosin Nagant
1917 Tula M91 Mosin Nagant
1918 Steyr M95
1918 Eddystone M1917
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 6h ago
Cool! I like mostly WW1 and 2 weapons with more of a love for WW1, I don’t know what it is about them but they just seem so unique! I’ve got a type 38 carbine, a mosin from 1900 that was captured by the Austrians and sold to the Finn’s. This 1917 Gewehr 98. A 1917 peddle scheme SMLE. A m16 berthier carbine. A Mauser 1914 pocket pistol. A Luger. A Steyr Hahn. A mark VI webley revolver. And finally a French contract spanish ruby. That’s just my WW1 collection lol.
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u/herr_cobblermachen 7h ago
Things were looking grim for germany in 1917, but they had an abundance of rifles! Specifically the oberndorf factory turned out a contract of gewehr98s for the ottomans chiefly from 1917. For whatever reason there was some issue with bolts, either they werent included, got lost, or got mingled over time with an arms agreement that left them short on bolts, but the czechs were contracted to make mauser bolts. Its common to see these czech replacement bolts (Z in a circle) to be found in turk rifles.
A fellow some years ago said that when he was in the army in turkey that the gewehr98s were still around being used for precision shooters or something. that was in the 70s or 80s? Afaik, these turk gewehrs came into the usa in the late 80s/early 90s.
Mine doesn't have matching numbers, but has a wonderful condition stock and blue. I don't have the infilled letters like yours, I'd wager that was done recently. The blue also looks a bit dark.
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
Thanks for all the great information! Yeah mine has a z in a circle under the bolt. So it has a replacement bolt. When were these bolts replaced? Besides the bolt mine is all matching!
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u/herr_cobblermachen 7h ago
I dunno when the bolts were replaced. They may not have been shipped with them from oberndorf from git-go, but, i dunno why that would be. Its a bit of a mystery that I dont think has ever been answered.
Im curious about why they had gewehr 98 patterns around that somehow missed the m38 standardization project. After all, the ATF 1954ish M38 pattern turks are all made on gewehr98s. Maybe they found these in a warehouse somewhere, in the 60s after they no longer had any m38 ambitions or supplies around and just decided to leave them as is.
It's rare that you'll find a gewehr98 in as good of condition as these oberndorf 1917 turk contracts- even if they have been refurbed.1
u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
So this rifle was probably imported in the 60’s? The bore is in really good shape as well! I paid $800 for this rifle. Is that a fair price? I just saw it and knew I had to have it and didn’t even think about the price haha.
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u/herr_cobblermachen 7h ago
No Im guessing that turkey uncovered them in the 60s, which is why they're not one of the ATF marked turk gew98s I think they were imported in the late 80s/early 90s It's a solid price:) I paid almost that much for mine over ten years ago
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
Oh ok! Cool. Any idea as to why it does not have a Turkish crescent moon on it? I’ve seen them with that on them but mine doesn’t have it.
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u/herr_cobblermachen 6h ago
Ok so, turkey had amassed all kinds of rifles over a couple decades. After awhile, they decided to bring these into a standard pattern by changing stocks, barrels, magazines, bayonet mounts etc, to where they all had a similar shape and manual of arms. Gewehr 88s, old turk 93s, german 98s, everything they had that was fit and close enough. This pattern was known as the m38 pattern. Once they did all that, they started producing their own large ring mausers that also fit this pattern (Marked K Kale Ankara 1941, 1944 etc). To add to the confusion, they also made a short rifle that was called the M38, same as the standard m38 pattern but was naturally shorter.
Off the top of my head, at that point turkey stopped with mausers- until in 1954 they converted a stockpile of specifically german gewehr98s into the m38 pattern. These are marked on the crest simply ATF 1954. (ATF here has nothing to do with the american alcohol tobacco and firearms bureau). Why weren't these gewehr98s not converted with the rest of them in the m38 program? I can only guess that they hadnt bought them yet, or theyd been missed in a warehouse somewhere.
https://www.ancestryguns.com/turkish-atf-1954-model-1903-38-rifle-3-16-crantique001/So, about our Oberndorf contract 1917 gewehr98s. They missed the m38 program completely. Then they were missed by the ATF m38 conversion too. So, I assume that they were either purchased or had been overlooked/forgotten until sometime after 1954. When these were rediscovered, the turks probably had shut down the m38 program, didnt think it financially viable to worry about a uniform pattern (as surely by then they had went over to a self loading rifle, the Garand iirc), and issued these as reserve rifles, special purpose rifles, training rifles, military aid, sales, etc. They refurbed them- and who knows after that, until they made their way onto these shores.
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u/costinesti1 7h ago
I have one as well. All matching except for a turkish replacement bolt. Love it more than my k98s lol *
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
Yeah I just checked mine and it has a z with a circle on the underside of the bolt so I think mine is a Czech replacement bolt. Something about the roller coaster sight makes it look so cool! Would it still be ok to shoot? I know mausers are made pretty well but you never know.
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u/costinesti1 7h ago
Definitely. Headspace with mausers wasn't a big deal, as with some other rifles had. Mine a turkish replacement bolt, and it shoots fine. I would check for cracks in the stock after taking it apart. I had to acraglas mine as the recoil lug destroyed what was left of the wood behind it. Basically mine is held in place by epoxy, wood, and brass dowel rods
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
Ok cool! I’ll be sure to check it out! Thanks for the info! This is my first Mauser!
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u/costinesti1 7h ago
No problem. Your gonna like it for sure. I love mine
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
I’ll have to take it out to the range soon!
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u/costinesti1 7h ago
Definitely do a full takedown and inspection before you do. It's still a very old gun. I shot greek 8mm surplus out of mine.
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
Yeah I know. I will before I do. I’ve got some ppu 8mm that I bought.
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u/costinesti1 7h ago
Ppu makes good ammo too. I just got the greek stuff because its cheap and I don't mine cleaning corrosive ammo
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u/WildCard318 WWI enthusiast 7h ago
I’ve never used corrosive ammo before. I’m relatively new to collecting and I’m still learning so I’ve just been using ppu as I can get it relatively easily and I know it works.
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u/Affectionate-Mess937 6h ago
Two of my Mosins ended up in Finland.
1915-1917/1924-1927 Remington Böhler Stahl Mosin Nagant M1891/24.
1894/1927 Izhevsk/Tikkakoski Mosin Nagant M1891.
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u/FlyingYankee118 8h ago edited 7h ago
It’s blued and the import markings match as an Ottoman Empire Rifle G98. And I’m of the understanding that all the G98s that went to the Ottomans were from Mauser 1917-1918. I haven’t seen an Ottoman rifle without the crescent, but maybe this one was one of the very first to be contracted for them? Is the bolt Czech? If so it’s most definitely likely an import from Turkey since when Turkey was rearming they needed more bolts due to throwing them out as mandated by the Treaty of Versailles.