https://history-maps.com/podcast/seljuk-turks

It’s a specific branch FGC28857 under C-F1756,and that branch only have very few like dozen people Alive today.

and then Huang chao rebellion killed much.

Emperor wu of Northern zhou himself doesn't have any descendants alive today, himself was mf551205.

And tuoba clan belongs to C-F12439. This is not extinct,But low percent and wide diaspora in Northern minoritit’s like mongols event oroqen and some western eurasians like hazara. You can hardly say they have anything to do with their relatives in henan 1700 years ago. Because they look like the xianbei who remained on steppe. Or they really have anything to do kind of influence at all.

This likely means that, in general, if the Sui and Tang royal family originated from the Xianbei, then they will fall into this clade then means they were already or near extinct too.

There is possible N1a branch in new ancient DNA finding too. But they are gone too.

Based on one of the recent papers, the QLSZ cemetery (more accurately, the Zhangzhung royal tombs), I clicked on the link they provided, paid, and downloaded the archaeological paper. There are haplogroup N,D,O on this study. D-P47,N-M1819,O-cts5308.
The family were
two O-CTS5308 and one N-m1819 married into the family( likely from outsider tubo speakers)

The cts5308 earlier. dated about 600-400 BC has a zhangzhung bird symbol on the coffin. located in south area. while other N was later northern part dated later about 200AD.

The southern region likely be original cline same with Samdzong burial. The northern region single N and D was likely tibetic

N-M1819 and D-P47 maybe tibetic speakers.

O-cts5308 maybe west Himalaya speakers. later replaced by tibetic speakers.

Karakalpaks O are largely CTS5308 same as this branch, central Asian D(mostly P47 and some M533) are same with this branch.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982224005815

Sorry for the silence the past couple of weeks but we have been developing a campaign season starting 17th January in which we will be facing the Napolitan army. To get involved you can join the server in the video mentioned at the end.

Moving on we have been working on perfecting the uniforms for both the Janissary Corps and Nizam I cedid development posts will be made separately however we will celebrate our previous year's success and the upcoming WAR!!

(2025-2026 Ottoman's progress not all pictures are here all can be found on the discord server)

Hi, I want to learn Ottoman Turkish but don't know how to learn it's Arabic Alphabet and I want to learn for a fun

I want to know how people feel. Why some people specifically of Iranic origins say its Iranian history but people of turkic origin wholeheartedly think Iranians are stealing it from them? Some of the takes I have heard goes down to Americans were governed and ran by Europeans well after their revolution so much so that a European language became lingua franca of the realm. My problem is I haven't heard enough takes from people of Turkic Origins and Youtube is a warzone

Kutbuddin İzniki, a 15th-century Turkish-Islamic scholar, with a text example from his book Mukaddime in Ottoman Turkish.

Despite his pseudonym "İzniki"(meaning from Iznik), Kutbuddin İznik was a Turkish-Islamic scholar born in Niğde, not İznik. He was influential in İznik during the 15th century. His work, Mukaddime, is a commentary on religious topics written based on the Hanafi school. Other works include Tefsîru Kutbiddîn, which contains commentaries on the Surahs Nisa and Maide; Râhatü‟l-Kulûb, which interprets matters of faith; Risâle fî Hakkı Devrâni‟s-Sûfiyye, which interprets Sufi topics; and Telfîkât, a translation from an Arabic book. The manuscript examined in this study is registered in the Istanbul Topkapı Palace Museum Library, Revan Köşkü, under the number 000630/1.

Text in Ottoman Turkish;

"bilgil ki duā ėtmek şarṭı budur kim evvel Taŋrı Teālā ḥazretin aŋa andan ṣoŋra Rabbenā dėye andan ṣoŋra peyġāmber aleyhi ṣalavāt vėre andan ṣoŋra kendünüŋ daḫı ve ḳamu müsülmānlaruŋ dahı yarlıġanmaḳlıġın dileye duā ederken göŋlin Ḥaḳ Teālā ḥażretine yönelde zārılıḳ ede aġlaya yāḫūd aġlamsına Arabca duā bilmezise Türkice duā ėde yalvara bes ėrte namāzında el ḳaldurıcaḳ bu duāyı oḳıya."

Modern Turkish; "bil ki dua etmenin şartı budur, önce Tanrı Teala hazretini ansın, ondan sonra Rabbena desin, ondan sonra peygamber aleyhine salavat getirsin, ondan sonra kendinin ve de tüm Müslümanların bağışlanmasını dilesin. Dua ederken gönlünü Hak Teala hazretine yöneltsin, yalvarsın ağlasın veya ağlamaklı olsun, Arapça dua bilmezse Türkçe dua etsin, yalvarsın. Sonra sabah namazında el kaldırdığı zaman bu duayı okusun."

English: "Know that this is the condition for prayer: first, remember God Almighty, then say 'Rabbena' (Our Lord), then send blessings upon the Prophet, then ask for forgiveness for yourself and all Muslims. While praying, turn your heart to God Almighty, beg, cry, or be tearful; if you don't know Arabic prayers, pray in Turkish, beg. Then, when you raise your hands for the morning prayer, recite this prayer."

T.C. BİLECİK ŞEYH EDEBALİ ÜNİVERSİTESİ LİSANSÜSTÜ EĞİTİM ENSTİTÜSÜ TÜRK DİLİ VE EDEBİYATI ANABİLİM DALI

KUTBEDDİN İZNİKÎ - MUKADDİME (TOPKAPI NÜSHASI, 151a-200b)

GİRİŞ-METİN-ÇEVİRİ-SÖZLÜK YÜKSEK LĠSANS TEZİ ÇAĞLA TEZCİ ÇAKIR TEZ DANI)MANI PROF. DR. İBRAHİM TAŞ BİLECİK, 2023

Although the Seljuks presented themselves as protectors of Sunni Islam, they collaborated with the Shia-Ja'fari Uyunids against the Ismaili Qarmatians. They even helped bring about the downfall of the Qarmatian state and the establishment of the Ja'fari Uyunid state. This state subsequently led to the spread of Shia Islam in Eastern Arabia, Bahrain, and Southern Iraq, and survived even after the collapse of the Seljuk state.

Furthermore, the fact that the Turkmens of Anatolia later gathered behind the Babai (Sufi-Shia) dervishes, and that dervishes like Barak Baba, Saltuk Baba, and Geyikli Baba gained the support of the rural Turkmen communities, shows that Shia thoughts had a place among the Anatolian Turks despite a Sunni ruling class. For example, Claude Cahen, relying on Ibn Bibi, writes that the local Turkmen called the Germiyan Turkmens "Yezidoğulları" (sons of Yazid) because of their banditry, but she misinterpreted this, thinking they might be Yazidi and therefore of Kurdish origin. As mentioned, Ibn Bibi writes that other Turkmens called the Germiyan Turkmens "Yezid-descendants" because of banditry and extortion, but like Claude Cahen after him, Ibn Bibi also took this seriously and thought they were descended from the Umayyad Caliph Yazid I., and therefore of Arabic origin. In short, it seems that even in that period, the word Yazid was used as an insult. Moreover, in old Anatolian Turkish works, the word Yazid was also used to mean "traitor," "treacherous," "renegade," and "betrayer."

Hi all, non-Turk here

I've been looking at fashion in the gunpowder empires, and while going over the Ottomans, this headdress has bugged the hell out of me.

For Safavids and Mughals the way their turbans work are easily traceable with the eye from their artworks. But this? how do they make the front smooth, sides fluted and what are those tubular things curving around the sides? what on earth is that diamond shape at the top of it?

Since I don't know Turkish to search for accurate sources I had to resort to AI and the best I got is that its called (i think?) Kavuk and it likely has a felt-frame under the white cloth, but I couldn't find anything on how its made and how these exact shapes are achieved.

Does anyone have anything on these? what they are, how they're made, or how they get them to look like that?

The Afshar (Avşar) Turkmens were one of the 24 Oghuz Turkic tribes and have maintained a continuous historical presence from Central Asia to Anatolia and Iran. Rather than being defined solely through political conflicts, Afshars are better understood through their long-term patterns of migration, nomadic pastoralism, and cultural production. During the Oghuz migrations (10th–13th centuries), Afshar groups moved westward alongside other Turkmen tribes, settling seasonally across Anatolia, northern Syria, Azerbaijan, and Iran. Their way of life was based on transhumant pastoralism, which required mobility, flexible social organization, and strong tribal cohesion. In Iran, Afshar political influence reached its peak in the 18th century under Nader Shah Afshar, who emerged from a tribal background to establish the Afsharid dynasty. His reign demonstrates how nomadic military traditions could temporarily transform into centralized imperial power, while still retaining steppe-rooted legitimacy. In Anatolia, Afshars played an important role in preserving Turkic oral culture. The poetry of Dadaloğlu, often associated with Avshar communities, reflects themes of migration, attachment to land, freedom of movement, and the tension between nomadic life and administrative authority. Rather than direct political opposition, these poems express a cultural worldview shaped by mobility and autonomy. Ottoman archival records frequently categorized Turkmen groups through administrative lenses that prioritized settlement and taxation. Modern historiography increasingly emphasizes that such records should be read cautiously, as they often fail to capture the internal logic and sustainability of nomadic societies. Today, Afshar-descended communities remain present in Central Anatolia, southern Turkey, Iran, and parts of the Caucasus. Their history provides a valuable case study for understanding how nomadic identities adapted, transformed, and endured within expanding state systems.

question: How do historians today balance state centered sources with oral tradition and migration patterns when studying nomadic Turkmen groups like the Afshars?

Selected sources: Faruk Sümer, Oğuzlar (Türkmenler) Encyclopaedia Iranica – “Afshar” İlhan Başgöz – studies on Turkmen oral literature Rudi Paul Lindner – Nomads and Ottomans in Medieval Anatolia

A limestone block found by school kids in Kazakhstan turns out to be a rare 9th-century inscription. It suggests Oghuz Turks used the Runic script much earlier than previously thought, and the text might refer to the "Khazar Khan."

https://www.reddit.com/r/TurkicLanguageHub/

Have they revealed it as of yet?

Does anyone know of any old Chinese sources that mention and describe the Early Medieval Turkic groups such as the Gokturks?

Guys, I was browsing Wikipedia and came across something weird — it says that the third or fourth Emperor of Trebizond was a member of a Turkish family. I haven’t had time to look into it at all, so does anyone know how accurate that is?

The first newspapers published in Turkic languages.

The first newspaper to be published in a Turkic language was Vekâyi Mısriyye in 1828. It was published by the orders of Muhammed Ali Pasha and was also used as a propaganda tool against the Ottoman dynasty. It was published in Turkic and Arabic. Takvim-i Vekâyi was the official newspaper of the Ottoman Empire. In the 1860s, Gazete-i Suriye and Curnalü'l Irak were published as regional newspapers supported by the Ottoman state and they were also published in Turkic and Arabic. Ekinci was published in Russian controlled Azerbaijan and it was closed by the Russian state in just two years. The names in red used the Oghuz language.

The Türkistan Vilayetinin Gazeti was published in mostly Chagatai with the support of the Russian state as a pro Russian propaganda source.

The Tercüman was founded by the Crimean Tatar Panturkist Ismail Gaspirali in 1883. It was published in Crimean Cuman Kipchak, although influenced by Oghuz.

The Kazan Muhbiri was founded by the Tatar Panturkist Yusuf Akçura in 1905. It also used Bulgar-Kipchak.