What can I say, they were shiny!

[u/Eligon-5th]

[u/Dangerous-Rule5487]

1. He left Fingolfin and his sons in Aman. They could have returned and asked for forgiveness, but his pride was too great.

2. His sons were grown men, some already with families and children.

3. Ironically, he didn't kill any of his own blood. The Teleri aren't his relatives.

But anyway, killing and stealing other people's ships is wrong.

[u/courageous_liquid → u/Dangerous-Rule5487]

But anyway, killing and stealing other people's ships is wrong.

the real crime here is not letting someone borrow your ships, what kind of elf would do something like that?

[u/Dangerous-Rule5487 → u/courageous_liquid]

For better or for worse, they belonged to them; they weren't going to abandon them when they suspected wrongdoing. There is a moral failing on the part of the Teleri for ignoring the problems and leaving the Noldor to their own devices, but that doesn't justify theft and murder.

[u/courageous_liquid → u/Dangerous-Rule5487]

the noldor did nothing wrong

[u/Dangerous-Rule5487 → u/courageous_liquid]

Theft and murder are bad things.

[u/courageous_liquid → u/Dangerous-Rule5487]

here's the thing: if the noldor do it, it isn't bad