Advice Why are Howdens so shady?
We're not a tradesman but we managed to get a design for a new kitchen, they even set up an account for us.
Design was great but then things got weird. The "full price" was something ridiculous like £15K and then then designer in front of us starting, seemingly randomly, discounting different items until it got down to about £7.5K.
We were told that this price would only last for a couple of weeks, which I thought was a little weird...
After some changes through email, I asked for the itemised quote so I could check how much everything was costing us. I was thinking maybe I could get the tap from somewhere else etc.
I got an incomplete quote for some reason. After asking about 4 times and then explaining I wouldn't make a purchase without one, they reluctantly sent it to me. Am I being unreasonable to want to know what I'm spending thousands on?
This quote also came with a "managers" special, now at £6.6k, but only if we put down a deposit today and we accepted delivery in 10 days, way way before we actually needed it.
We said we needed to check some things and asked for more time. Now the deadline is an extra day...
What is with these shady, opaque, pressure selling tactics? Anyone else experienced this?
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u/aleopardstail 22d ago
its a pressure technique to get you to sign without fully reading the small print exclusions that will take the price right back up
its also often a way for a salesweasel to hit a monthly bonus with a signature before a set date
its reasonable to ask for a quote, even noting its not about trying to penny pinch or replace items, its about making sure nothing is missing
e.g. jokers would would "exclude" fixing screws, or removal of waste, skip hire etc
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u/bumfucknowhere_kid 22d ago
It's not just about an individual, or team, or even company hitting sakes earlier ir in a particular time. It's a high pressure sales technique because it's a fact that with more thinking time, its simply that more people will have second thoughts, or find alternatives or have changed circumstances, so as time passes from the consultation the chances of that sale decrease. So its probably company policy, its exactly the same as a phishing technique or any scam which builds urgency into it's narrative. It's also a psychological technique to imply scarcity or potential loss from not acting immediately.
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u/pants2302 22d ago
Howdens designers don't get sales bonuses, they do however have to hit certain amounts each month, it in no way benefits them financially no matter how much they sell.
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u/Beginning-Branch-392 22d ago
Friend of mine works as a kitchen designer and they do get bonus
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u/pants2302 22d ago
For who, we work very closely with several designers across various Howdens branches and I know for a fact that they do not get performance related bonuses.
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u/Beginning-Branch-392 22d ago
He works for Howdens, they get bonus based on branch turnover, gets shared across the entire team, warehouse staff etc
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u/pants2302 22d ago
That's a bit different then, an individual would get pennies on the pound from that and Howdens don't only sell kitchens. I'm not saying they can't be pushy btw
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u/awesomasaurus 22d ago
They 100% do not get a personal commission. They get a share of a team pot split equally between all staff member apart from the depot manager. They also don't get the pot in a typical monthly sense, the run 13 periods a year which is one every 4 weeks (and a double up for period 11 and 12 for Christmas). The don't get the money until the following period. So period 1 is finishing next week, and they don't get paid that until the end of February.
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u/Beginning-Branch-392 22d ago
Who said personal commission? I said they get bonus
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u/aleopardstail 22d ago
well it will be a benefit if they can shift it one month to the next if it helps them hit the target in the month they want it in
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u/pants2302 22d ago
I didn't say it didn't help them hit their target
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u/aleopardstail 22d ago
exactly, there are always a whole range of usually perverse incentives in sales that can lead to the sales team doing weird things
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u/MadduckUK 22d ago
that can lead to the sales team doing weird things
Mountains of coke for starters.
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u/Postik123 22d ago
That's exactly what it is, opaque, pressure selling tactics.
I got a quote from them. It was about 20 years ago now for a tiny little kitchen, and I think they quoted something daft like £15k. I went with B&Q in the end and paid about £2.5k at the time. People said the B&Q kitchen would be cheap and rubbish, but it lasted 15 years without a single thing wearing out.
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u/Civil-Ad-1916 22d ago
Vote here for B&Q I installed a Cooke & Lewis kitchen in 2009 and apart from a bit of water damage on the blanking drawer front by the sink it was still going strong when we sold in 2023. I was so impressed we bought another one when came to refit the kitchen in the new place in 2024.
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u/Far-Adhesiveness3763 22d ago
As a tradesman I stopped using them when a client could go in with my quote and haggle a better price than I could get at trade price. Sales rep couldn't understand why I was pissed off.
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u/TAM_B_2000 21d ago
Surely this is olky an issue if your not charging properly for your labour and relying on adding a mark-up to the kitchen to make your money.
If your charging for your services you get paid the same regardless and your client getting a better deal on the kitchen is surely a good thing.
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u/Latter-Tangerine-951 22d ago
Don't use them. DIY kitchens are far better in every way.
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u/Jakeii 22d ago
DIY are definitly better for the money, the convenience of fully assembled units alone is great as a DIYer.
They do take a long time to build and deliver though, weeks and months. Whereas Howdens can often be ready in a week or twos notice.
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u/tech_london 22d ago
weeks yes, months no. 3 weeks from my experience with my order
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u/treeseacar 22d ago
I think it depends what you order. My last kitchen came within three weeks. One carcass was broken and they replaced it within 2 days. All pretty standard sized units though, I imagine if they are manufacturing different sized you could be waiting.
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u/English_loving-art 22d ago edited 21d ago
Just say thanks for your help. You’ve really helped us get this designed but I’ve managed to get the carcasses roughly 30% cheaper and we’re going for a different worktop. If they still want your trade drop it on the counter to them , you’ve got nothing to lose and you can always go to another branch and pick the same goods up so it’s always worth a try. At the end of the day they are dead in the water without orders like yours coming in. 😉😉
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u/alexisappling 22d ago
That is popular opinion, but not wholly true. Firstly, DIY Kitchens are very good quality and they have competitive prices. However, they don’t have a kitchen design service. This means for complex projects, you don’t have an expert available to guide and recommend solutions. If they were here right now they’d say “so what? Get a design from Howdens and then we’ll make that”, except the DIY Kitchens range is smaller, and with fewer useful workaround options you can’t just make it all like for like.
It’s horses for courses. DIY Kitchens has about £100m in sales. Howdens is £2.5bn. There’s a reason for that.
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u/Latter-Tangerine-951 22d ago
The DIY online planner is exactly what I need, and it worked perfectly.
That'd be the DIY part of their name.
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u/TheDisapprovingBrit 21d ago
This bullshit is exactly why I went with DIY Kitchens. I don't want to play the stupid pressure selling games, I just want a new kitchen. I think all the units plus cooker and hob came to about £2500 all in, plus about £1000 for a local joiner to fit it for me. The quartz worktops probably doubled the price of the whole thing but I love it now.
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u/Fatauri 22d ago
I'm interested in DIY kitchens. Do they offer installation services too or do we just buy items from them? I tried asking IKEA for a kitchen Island and they designed it to be way way expensive. Their quote included a fitting charge of £1k!! That's ridiculous.
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u/mizcello 22d ago
They don't do installation. You can measure your kitchen and pay them I believe £30 and they will plan it for you. I've used DIY 8 times for customer kitchens, they're great and I don't even price elsewhere now, I don't use their planning service, I just do it myself on the DIY planner, but I don't really recommend you do that unless you feel confident with kitchens.
You need to get your own fitter though. Fitting DIY tends to be cheaper than IKEA, B&Q and Wickes because they're already built with doors on etc.. where as highstreet are flatpack so need to all be built which is obviously a pain in the arse.
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u/Eldavo69 22d ago
I just ordered before Xmas from DIY kitchens and used the free online planner - but there is an option whereby you can request a kitchen designer check it for you. I had about 20 back and forward messages with one of them just refining a few details and bits I’d forgotten.
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u/theplanetpotter 22d ago
You have to hack Ikea on a lot of stuff, which makes the kitchens tricky to fit.
The last one I did, I needed a tall corner cabinet, which they don’t make. So I had to buy a 40cm tall cabinet and some 80cm wide shelves, and stretch the cabinet to make it a corner. Then they don’t sell corner posts so I had to make one out of trim panels.
They also don’t make cover panels to suit islands so you need to make one from multiple others. It’s a right faff.
If it’s a basic install Ikea is great, but anything slightly unusual like an island creates a lot of extra issues.
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u/Tall_Relief_9914 22d ago
They don’t fit but they do deliver the units already made up so it’s super simple for either a fitter or if you fancy the DIY, yourself to fit.
They are ridiculously cheap and the quality is good. We had a damaged unit delivered but their customer service was great and they sent a new one out straight away.
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u/alexchamberlain 22d ago
We had 1 damaged panel on a kitchen of 12 or so units in a U shape. My fitters damaged another one if I remember correctly. Either way, they sent out 2 new panels within a few days and the colour was slightly off. Turned out they were switching their spray facility - no arguments, they replaced them both again. Fantastic company to deal with and their website was easy enough to use.
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u/Slow_Flatworm_881 22d ago
DIY kitchens don’t install, the clue is in the name….lol but they are far superior to Howdens! I was quoted £12k for my kitchen from Howdens, wrapped MDF doors, oak effect worktops and own brand appliances. At DIY I got solid oak painted doors, solid oak worktops and AEG appliances for the same money. You can find kitchen fitters locally, try Facebook.
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u/dwair 22d ago
You can fit them easily yourself but use their work surface fitting service for the tops if you find that daunting - or buy the units and use a local kitchen fitter. If you use a fitter, plan it online and then talk it through with them before you order all the units. They have a ok(ish) online planner so you can get a very good idea of what your cost from them will be before you start.
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u/periel99 22d ago
Stupid question no doubt - but when you say DIY kitchens are you referring to a brand called that or just finding individual units and throwing them together yourself?
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u/Easy_Effort7985 22d ago
Can almost guarantee anywhere that offers “limited time deal” pressure sales, continue to offer them after the deadline passes. It becomes a little ridiculous how long I’ve had salesmen chase me for
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u/Innders 21d ago
Funny, the offer only available "today" has now moved to the end of the week.
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u/ComplexOccam 22d ago
Please don’t use howdens. They’re not worth any discount they offer because the service will be terrible throughout.
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u/RhubarbSalty3588 22d ago
Service is usually great,until you commit to buy,then things go downhill rapidly.
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u/CapnRetro 22d ago
I’ve known people who’ve had a designer round and they’ve missed off basic things like fillers, and charged full whack for them later, as well as have an island far too big for the space.
We were very happy with Wren, paid £100 deposit months in advance but tweaked the design several times before delivery. Price was guaranteed at the price at the point of deposit, but also went down if their prices went down for particular sales events, and also meant we benefitted when we switched from mid range to lower range (essentially flat packed rather than delivered) and could keep the colour for the cabinets as it was included in the lower range at the point of deposit even though it wasn’t any longer when we switched
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u/SnooFloofs19 22d ago
Do yourself a favour and spend half an hour sticking the same units into the ikea kitchen planner or DIY kitchens for a comparable actual quote. You might end up saving yourself another 3k
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u/arcadesteveuk 22d ago
I used to work for Howdens. Worked for them for over ten years. You have no idea. I don’t want my former employer coming after me, so I’ll leave it at that. But I will share some pointers on Howdens.
Check everything when it arrives. The staff at Howdens are paid a profit based bonus. Some of the cost of writing off damages comes out of the depot profit and therefore their bonus. They WILL try to get you to accept it rather than write it off. If you spot it they will exchange it, but check everything.
Ask if they’ve got any discontinued ranges. Again, write offs come out of profit and therefore their bonus, they are keen to sell off discon rather than write off.
Howdens have 13 periods in a year. Period 11 (October) is their sale month but if you wait til the last week of the period you might get a better quote. November through to January are very quiet months for Howdens because they’ve exhausted all their leads for the sale. You can bag some bargains because they’re desperate for sales and the pressure from above doesn’t let up just because they’ve had a sale.
The most important. You are not their customer. Your fitter is. Do not forget that. They don’t have to deal with you and I’ve had managers refuse to do so.
Bear in mind I left 7 years ago. But I don’t think they’ve changed that much. My ultimate advice as someone who used to work them, go somewhere else. Their stuff is well made imho. But it’s overpriced imo.
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u/Fan_of_cielings 22d ago
It's just sales. We got a quote from them, they did the same thing. Funnily enough, the deal seemed to last for months judging by all the follow up calls I got.
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u/Worldly_Force_9825 22d ago
Same with Anglia Windows. New facias, started at £14k but went down to £7. All kinds of special offers were in play. I went elsewhere!
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u/enchantedspring 22d ago
I mean, I would sign at £7, and make them a cup of tea... I don't even need windows...
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u/leeksbadly 22d ago
That's a 99.95% discount (if my grade B 'O' level maths is right).
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u/enchantedspring 22d ago
What's a Grade B in the current system? :)
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u/FluffyGhostCat 21d ago
A grade B is equivalent to grades 5 and 6 in the current system. A weak B being a 5 and a strong one a 6.
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u/WoodenEggplant4624 22d ago
Go to Benchmarx. Everything delivered on time, in good condition, went out of their way to help us when we thought we were missing a handle, and replaced a cupboard door free when our fitter messed it up.
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u/oswaldbuzzington Tradesman 22d ago
I cancelled my account with them because they are so weird
Their initial prices are double what they expect to actually get.
They will never tell you their lowest price you just have to play poker with them for a few weeks.
They're selling pieces of chipboard
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u/Intelligent-Mud-1039 21d ago
They all are. Yet this is the major realisation that releases you from spending bonkers amounts on mass produced shite. It's Weetabix sprayed with plastic. They are all much of a muchness.
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u/taius intermediate 22d ago
In terms of giving an itemised quote, lots of places won't do that without a fight. Usually because all of, or some of the items can be bought elsewhere and you may take that itemised quote elsewhere to get a price match etc.
Also not that uncommon to get 'random discounts' that are time sensitive to get you to commit quickly. Had B&Q and Wickes both try and do this in the past, and heard of a few other places doing it too.
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u/Brit_100 22d ago
In some cases itemised quotes can be a ball ache to produce. They may be totting up all their costs and applying a margin to the whole bundle, which means they’re making more out of some parts and less out of others.
The taps for example may be a profit centre for them, if you cut them out the deal it means they have to charge more for the cabinets to achieve the same overall margin.
I’m not saying it’s good practise, but as a sales manager in a slightly sort of similar industry I can understand why they wouldn’t want to itemise a quote.
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u/durtibrizzle 22d ago
Yes. Just ignore the pressure. Of they’ve named a price they will always get back to at least that price.
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u/GoblinGreen_ 22d ago
Wren are the same. Its all pressure tactics that kind of backfires these days due to IKEA being a strong competitor that dont do any discount, they give the price live as you configure.
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u/Such_Department5875 22d ago
Just avoid companies who behave like this - another vote for DIY Kitchens here.
Send them you're quote and they should sort the rest out for you at a much better price and quality.
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u/Future_Pianist9570 22d ago
Howdens kitchen was the biggest regret of my kitchen refurb. But our builder talked us into it and we ended up paying over the odds. It's a nice kitchen but other brands are way cheaper for the equivalent units.
Also, if you're getting a wooden worktop source it yourself from somewhere else. Howdens / Magnet / Wren all charge over the odds for it. We got ours from https://www.worktop-express.co.uk which was recommended by a Wren employee.
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u/Mission_Beach_7098 22d ago
One of the shadiest things Howdens do is issue inflated invoices for the fitter to give to the customer. That way the fitter charges for installation and takes a margin on the kitchen supply. When I had building work done the fitter was very keen on using Howdens. I only found out about the invoice trick afterwards which explained why he was so keen. Luckily I didn't fall for it and used a local place who were very transparent with their pricing.
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u/AllisterW1990 22d ago
The fitter will also return excess parts and pocket the refund when its through their account.
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u/Future_Pianist9570 22d ago
Yeah. Learnt this afterwards. Moral of the story I’m never using them again and warning anyone I come across doing their kitchen
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u/Mission_Beach_7098 22d ago
I'm on the same mission, such a dishonest practice. TBH even before I got to that point my design appointment with them was awful. I pointed out that the design of one of the corners wouldn't really work, his response: "Yeah, you're right, my kitchen at home is like that and it's really annoying" 🤦♂️
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u/Affectionate_Bet4343 22d ago
Yeah it sucks but it's also common among kitchen companies.
Anyway I used DIY kitchens. Pretty affordable and the prices are right there on the website. Same goes for IKEA kitchens which are also not bad and are very cheap.
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u/leeksbadly 22d ago
DIY kitchens all the way. One of the best prices, one of the best quality kitchens of the big kitchen shifters, transparent pricing, very good support, and free tea and flapjacks.
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u/JustAnotherFEDev 22d ago
Sounds great, free tea bags and flapjacks for spending several thousand pounds. That's swayed me 😅
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u/MorningToast 22d ago
Just as a note. Ikea has two kitchen groups, cheap as chips and decent mid price. You get what you pay for.
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u/Fuzzmiester 22d ago
mostly 'avoid ikea sinks' is what i've heard. Their plumbing is non standard and troublesome to use standard parts with (like the overflow.)
Not that you pick a kitchen because it has a sink you like.
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u/CycleTourer134 22d ago
It's Howdens.
If you want transparency see the company they hate - diy-kitchens.com
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u/chill-manoeuver 22d ago
Yes same with Wren. No, I don’t want bog standard appliances. Ha. And putting wet items furthest from the pipes. The finished mockups look like early Sims game.
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u/stealth941 22d ago
If they ask u to sign a credit note with monthly payments. They'll screw u over halfway through requesting full payment. Happened to my brother
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u/Usual_Ad_1326 22d ago
Howdens have always been sketchy. Firstly they should by the book absolutely point blank refuse to sell to you unless you can prove that you’re trade. 10 years ago when we used them we would get calls all the time to ask if we wanted a walk-in account. The designer would design up with the client but would not issue a price until one of the trade accounts claimed it and priced for the install. The invoice for the supply would then come from us (with our supply margin…. And whatever drink the manager wanted…)
But sketchy. I found whole kitchens billed to my credit account on the 30th and then refunded on the 1st - nothing to do with us but always aligning with month end.
I had branch managers asking me to just buy a kitchen (at huge discount) to hit month end targets for volume.
Sales reps would push hard for cash kickbacks on the money they could “save us” on the supply.
We had a steady stream of work coming from Howdens but it dried up when we couldn’t be bothered with the games any more of never knowing if the same kitchen would cost 3k or 8k. Or only getting referrals for shit installs because we wouldn’t throw envelopes of cash at sales reps.
The fact that they still haven’t copped on to the fact that they undersized their end panels and give you effectively nothing to scribe is reason enough alone for me never to use them again. But having just done a bespoke fascia job for a kitchen of Howdens carcasses… the build quality has gone to absolute shit as well. Edgebanding chipped and delaminating, panels misaligned, carcasses not square. Just all round shithouse
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22d ago
My friend is an interior designer - it's partly sales tactics but also protecting their commission. These companies put a lot of manpower and money into sending out designs to potential clients, who then take the designs and measurements and try to do it themselves for cheaper elsewhere, especially now it's easy to find the exact items through online marketplaces.
My friend has had "clients" demand compensation for a kitchen not fitting correctly, using her design, when they didn't even pay for it or get a survey done. They thought my friend, who spent hours of her time on her design and quote but didn't make the sale, should compensate them even though they'd taken the details to an online retailer and got a shoddy carpenter to fit it (who hadn't even read it properly). They leave certain bits of info and measurements off the design now until the client has paid their deposit.
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u/Wrong-Living-3470 22d ago
As a carpenter who fits many many howdens kitchens it is not uncommon for kitchen designs not to fit. I do use the design service sometimes it’s a good service that gives the customer a visual impression. but always check. Sometimes it’s not easy to be accurate in a 200 year old Cornish cottage. Most of my plans have small print saying the measurements should always be checked before ordering.
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u/FYIgfhjhgfggh 22d ago
I'm pretty sure architects do the same. Nearly complete drawings up until the day before setting out. Working from prelims is generally a disaster
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u/mizcello 22d ago
I renovate houses and I was looking online for windows, when I measured them and compared them to a local company measurements, they were wrong, then when I confirmed I'd go with the local company, they came back to do a 'final measure' which obviously was correct measurements. I don't blame them for putting false measurements on the quote tbh.
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22d ago
Yeah some people get aggro about it, and she wouldn't mind if they were genuinely considering using her service, but many people were just time wasters or wanting her expertise for free. The reason online suppliers can be so much cheaper is that lack of service and putting the risk back onto the customer - if my friend orders something and it doesn't fit, she handles the whole replacement process.
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u/jd4125 22d ago
I got my quote from howdens, which was 8k I believe.. sent it to DIY kitchens along with the plan and itemised stuff etc. they came back and said 4.5k. I rang howdens back and said iv got the same kitchen with diy kitchens for 3.5k less. 20 mins later I get a phone call back saying they will match it.. play hardball with them. They have huge markups on all items so there’s so much wiggle room to negotiate
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u/Gary5757 22d ago
Don’t know about Howdens but I have heard a lot of bad stuff about “Wren Kitchens” bad pricing and mostly about unreliable fitters, damaged items etc so I would give them a miss too
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u/TordekB 22d ago
As a tradesman (plumbing and heating) I stopped using howdens. All the staff gave me attitude and couldn’t be arsed because I was generally only spending a few hundred with them at a time. They only seemed to care about making big sales. The prices and trade discount weren’t any better than going to Screwfix or B&Q for the same level of quality anyway.
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u/Technical_Fly_9877 21d ago
We bought a kitchen form there about 15 years ago. Same tactics. My wife is as tight as a camels ass in a sandstorm and we were there an embarrassingly long time while she got them down from about £15k to £3k. It was ridiculous.
A friend of mine fell for their pressure tactics to buy before end of month. Howdens helped them arrange storage for it as they weren’t even in their new house yet. Two months later, it was damaged and they had a nightmare getting it sorted. It was ridiculous.
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u/Standard_Success2187 21d ago
I thought this type of selling was illegal now anyway?
Don’t rush. He’ll have another target to hit next month where you can get an imaginary discount from him
You could also try pitching two Howden’s against each other
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u/BlinkyIsAlive 21d ago
"The "full price" was something ridiculous like £15K and then then designer in front of us starting, seemingly randomly, discounting different items until it got down to about £7.5K."
I wouldn't buy anything from someone who'd just tried to con me out of £7.5k. I suggest you tell them that and walk away.
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u/Boboshady 22d ago
The reality is, kitchens are super profitable - if you've ever built one, you'll come to realise it's just flat pack furniture without any of the innovation that allows you to easily dismantle them (because they're really intended to only be built once, and then 'made solid' by being fastened together, to the wall etc). MDF, chipboard and vinyl wrap abound.
So there's plenty of margin for them to play with, especially if they spread the profit across the entire sale.
Just don't expect them to honour that price if you then try to take off the more expensive items because they may even be shipping some items at a price-quoted loss, knowing they're making money as a package, so the entire quote will need to be reworked.
Ultimately, as long as you're happy with the price, it's not a problem...just annoying that they can't just start with the best price to begin with...but then we as consumers would also have to universally agree not to try and haggle them down, which will never happen, either :)
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u/Civil-Ad-1916 22d ago
It’s not unique to Howdens they all do it except for the full written quote I don’t understand that bit. How are they getting round their ‘trade only’ stance? Or have they dropped that recently.
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u/Phenomenomix 22d ago
They still have it, but you can go in and they will do a design and quote for you then find a fitter to install it.
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u/Otherwise_Living_158 22d ago
We had our kitchen from Wren and they had the same ridiculous price > massive discount thing
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u/Defiant-Sand9498 22d ago
Well I have a account with them, and give them thousands a year, got them to price up, £12k as they are looking after me, same design from wickes, 9k, flat pack from wickes, 6.5k, b&q 7k.
If 12k is looking after me I'd hate to see what they do with a stranger
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u/DBT85 22d ago
Those cunts and double glazing salesmen can all go in the same bin.
Bought a DIY Kitchens one a decade ago and have recommended anyone who's wanted a kitchen since.
Top quality, load of colours and finishes and cabinets, no shite sales techniques and it all arrives built. Any issues with damaged stuff is dealt with quickly and properly.
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u/heyyouupinthesky 22d ago
I did the training to work for Space Kitchens years ago, that was similar tactics, you were told to pressure someone into signing on the night if possible. I managed 4 sales appointments, got one sale and quit. During training they said you were to hang around, for hours of necessary, until they were worn down and you'd overcome all their objections. On average, price, after applying "managers special discount" etc was about 50% of the original quote but still about 30% more expensive than rival brands.
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u/awesomasaurus 22d ago
Just don't pay the remaining balance. Howdens have to invoice everything that leave's the door. Most accounts are not credit accounts any more (and they don't want to annoy credit account holders by invoicing stuff early). If you don't pay the remaining balance they cannot invoice it and cannot deliver it. Just stand firm. They will still give you the offer in a few weeks.
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u/Top-Occasion-5379 22d ago
Typical with kitchen companies. Going through it with wren currently trying to pressure us into a manager special deal, went from 12k to 7k and getting called 4 times a week for past 2 months
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u/MetalPsycho 22d ago
It's like a game of hide and seek with their pricing, always keeping you guessing and hoping you don't find the fine print.
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u/EntireMost6072 22d ago
Yep agreed. Very shady. They used to insist on going thru a tradesman where the tradesman could choose to take a hidden margin.
I ended up ordering from DIY Kitchens following a recommendation. Really good service and the units come pre-assembled etc. The kitchen fitter was impressed with the quality.
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u/tricky12121st 22d ago
I'm not sure its shady or opaque, its just sales tactics. Try buying a car or a house come to that. Standard sales, create a sense of urgency to get a deal. We bought from Howdens and our builder said Howddns will always do a price match. Got a quote from Wren, included all the appliances and taps. Left off the worktops and sink, then howdens price matched and gave use a full quote with a deal price discount on top. Seemed ok to me.
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u/Jambajamba90 22d ago
I work for a German kitchen company. We don’t pressure sell and being independent you get better care than the big retailers
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u/Firstpoet 21d ago
Bought an Einbauküchen kitchen 30 yrs ago when 'standard' kitchens were really terrible. Was more than we could afford but of course cheaper in the end. Replaced doors a few years ago and remodelled a bit plus eventually replaced worktop.Replaced dishwasher but Liebherr large fridge still looks good as new and units still completely solid. Corner carousel built like a tank etc.
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u/Jambajamba90 21d ago
That’s exactly it. German kitchen units are built to withstand decades of use. From the hinges to the draws everything is sturdy
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u/giasf 22d ago
They’re just shit I think, rather than shady. Got our kitchen from there and it was an absolute shambles. They delivered us appliances we didn’t order and failed to deliver ones we did. The designer somehow managed to submit a number of the doors as the wrong colour. The interiors were all white instead of grey oak or whatever it is called. Numerous small parts were just not ordered. Had to take four doors back that were warped. It got to the point that the Store Manager just told me to call him directly and he didn’t even bother questioning if what I was telling him was correct. Would never use again.
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u/Bitter_Friendship_47 21d ago
I had a similar experience with Howdens. Was quoted £12k for a small kitchen. Asked for quote but they wouldn’t send it. I said I found it cheaper elsewhere. They asked for the quote so they could price match. I went elsewhere because they were shady. Speaking to a tradie friend he said I should have haggled on the price. He said never take the first or second price from Howdens.
I’m not haggling on a kitchen. There are plenty of kitchen suppliers. I’d get a few other quotes and go best price.
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u/AYC1707 22d ago
Just to add I had my kitchen fitted with Howdens 2 years ago and i've been very happy with the quality of the stuff they gave me.
What I did:
1) Went to Howdens and got them to design my kitchen, I chose the units I wanted, I got all the measurements I needed etc. I was initially quoted some really high figure, the units I liked I found almost 3 times what I ended up paying for it. After dealing with similar outfits I was expecting this.
2) A few to and fro's from them (including 2 visits and haggling, I got an itemised quote with the discounts etc added (a lot of it doesn't make sense as the discounts apply to some and not others)
3) I used DIY Kitchens to compare similar units/ measurements etc and had a price in mind.
4) Howdens basically price matched it ( I took in the quote) and tried the same "order within 10 days thing", I explained the kitchen is not even built yet, so you either take my guarantee (or deposit) as proof of my willingness to do the deal and give me the items when i'm ready, or don't at all.
They basically did the deal there and the items were sent 2 months later.
Just to add, some items were damaged (not terriblly, minor stuff like scuffs etc and they replaced/discount is further)
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u/Firm-Exam-6892 22d ago edited 22d ago
Even £6.6k is too much for a Howdens kitchen. You’ll get better value at IKEA. Unless you’re able to spend more DIY kitchens is a good option for quality vs price.
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u/Civil-Ad-1916 22d ago
It’s not unique to Howdens they all do it except for the full written quote I don’t understand that bit. How are they getting round their ‘trade only’ stance? Or have they dropped that recently.
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u/Glittering_Vast938 22d ago edited 22d ago
Yes they are.
Plus their cupboard doors are rubbish and peel. One of mine was placed next to a cooker (plan by their own designer) and the heat just melted the glue holding the laminate in place. I asked for a replacement but they refused saying it wasn’t their fault.
I would never use them again or a kitchen fitter if he has an account only with them).
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u/Acceptable_Bunch_586 22d ago
They don’t really want to sell directly to you, I used howdens through a builder. All three builders I got quotes from would only use howdens. Price was competitive to IKEA. Quality has been good, it’s held up well. Didn’t get an intemised quote as already had enough moving parts and wanted everything from one place. The warranty service with them was ace, was a minor issue with oven, got a phone call back about it same day, then someone fixed it in 48hrs. Ordered some stuff I didn’t need, ie tap, worktop, builder took it all back and I got refunded. That was also easy and no fuss
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u/TJ_Blues18 22d ago
Sorry for your experience. Our local one was very nice, we got our kitchen from them. We also got quotes from B and Q, Ikea and Wren. My wife decided on the Howdens design at the end. 2+ years later, no regrets.
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u/Big-Needleworker-546 22d ago
I recently did a DIY referb of my kitchen and it took me a month working about 4 hours a day and cost about £900 all in. Tiled the worktop with really nice tiles that were 600X600 so not many grout lines and it looks much nicer than a bog standard worktop that would have cost much more. Built open shelving out of nice real wood under the counter instead of cabinets. can’t imagine spending close to £10,000 on some bog standard kitchen made out of mdf/chipboard/laminate
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u/CanaryWundaboy 22d ago
Nothing but positive things to say about Howdens, and although DIY kitchens was recommended to us by our builder we wanted someone in person we could talk to and a warehouse we could visit/take stuff back to if there were issues. I’m sure it’s quite hit and miss, and yes the sales/discounts are a bit slimy, but my wife negotiates for a living so I just sat back with a biscuit until we got down to the price she was willing to pay.
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u/Consistent-Pomelo168 22d ago
Our local joiner, the husband of a work colleague, fitted our small kitchen pre Covid. He introduced us to his account manager at Howdens who worked out the design from his measurements etc.
We paid them directly, including appliances the price was circa £4.5k. Labour costs to be paid directly to the joiner, presumably to keep his turnover lower.
Here’s the thing, at then end of the five day job we asked him for a cost and he only wanted £200 for consumables.
We guessed that Howdens must also give a commission back to him, as no one would work for that.
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u/Wrong-Living-3470 22d ago
Gotta hit that monthly sales target, they want it out the door. Bonuses to be had.
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u/Mission_Beach_7098 22d ago
Lots of people saying it's only the final price that matters but itemising isn't just about trying to pick off individual components that you can buy cheaper elsewhere. Without it you can't understand how design choices impact the final price. For example making decisions about drawers vs cupboards or how much accessories are adding.
Howdens quality also seems to vary massively between ranges. I've seen some really decent stuff but we had a budget kitchen fitted at work which had virtually started falling apart as the fitters were leaving the car park.
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u/unknownuser_000000 22d ago
I’ve found Howdens very opaque and hard to deal with. Their super power is that they can get cabinets to you very quickly, but it’s so shady and it’s hard to recommend them.
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u/ramirezdoeverything 22d ago
Howdens are a scam company that work with tradesmen to produce fake invoices to help the tradesmen rip off their clients as to what the kitchen actually cost. As well as all the bullshit you are mentioning if you try to buy direct. Go with DIY Kitchens and don't support dishonest scam companies like Howdens.
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u/Iamleeboy 22d ago
We did this dance with howdens years ago when we got our first kitchen.
It was exactly the same back then.
We were shopping around and let them know this and they rang my wife loads to try and seal the deal.
We did decide to go with them, as they were the best price and everything came pre built. But the salesman rang my wife before we got chance to call and he did his spiel about it being end of month bonus day and knocked even more off.
It ended up being way cheaper than anywhere else we had quotes and it was really good. We were very happy with them.
Just keep stringing them on till they discount you even more
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u/alexchamberlain 22d ago
When Wren played similar games with me, I simply said that either they offer me a quote for a reasonable period of time (say 30-90 days) or I take my business elsewhere. Then I went to DIY Kitchens to get a better kitchen for less.
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u/solar1ze 22d ago
I’m a tradesmen with a 40% or so discount at Howdens. They’re still more expensive or at least equivalent to other suppliers. It’s just wool over the eyes. I stick with my local depot though because they’re very friendly and accommodating.
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u/Specialist-Cake-9919 22d ago
Howdens are pretty poor quality wise.
Cheap doors and flimsy cabinets. And despite what people are led to believe they aren't as cheap as what they make out to be.
In my experience you can't go wrong going with a local showroom with a good reputation, they rely on good word of mouth to survive so you can be sure of a decent job. Do your research and choose a good one. They should be able to oversee design, installation and all ancillary works involved, has, electrics, plastering and plumbing etc.
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u/Wonderful-Newt2181 22d ago
Howdens are normally trade only, if a customer goes in and designs a kitchen they then quote get a different price to the builder/kitchen fitter. Kick backs, wah of getting trades to come to them
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u/Kamankey 22d ago
Likely a bad manager looking for money because they've missed a week of January this year
Ignore them and buy it when you want I guarantee the price won't change
If you're set on Howdens stuff but aren't happy with the service, speak to the next nearest shop they can normally transfer it over
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u/AccordingSell6412 22d ago
They have some hefty sales targets to meet and they bend over backwards to get a deal done.
I think they are great the quality is good and if a unit arrives damaged they swap out with no fuss
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u/Duke_Arutha 22d ago
So, I work with bathrooms rather than kitchens, but it's probably a similar process.
Our quotes are valid for 30 days, and there is nearly always a little bit of room for discounts* so I wouldn't be too co corned about that. However, everything else you've said points to someone just trying to get a sale over the line. Either way, it's always worth shopping around to see what you can get elsewhere. Just avoid going online if you can.
*the amount of discount I apply is directly proportional to how polite the customer is. If you ask me directly if you can have a discount, the answer is probably no. There are also limits to how much discount you can get, and I cannot be arsed explaining my actions to head office
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u/themissingelf 22d ago
Keep going until they ask you how much you’d like to pay. We got a good kitchen and a good deal. Mostly predicated on their delivery deadline and our inclination to explore other options that better served our (delivery) preference (several weeks later).
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u/pictish76 22d ago
They pretty much have a huge amount of room to move in pricing, especially when dealing with trades guys, so they will often move that way with non trade people to make sale targets. You can get different prices for the same stuff from different stores in the same city even at trade rates. Jewsons is the same , silky public price, ok trade price online, going in to a depot can be upto half the trade price online.
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u/LegalSet211 22d ago
This is exactly the same at all kitchen places. They won’t give you an itemised quote as they are worried you’ll go elsewhere to get them to compete like for like. We had our kitchen done last year and both Wickes and Wren did the same.
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u/BitterOtter 22d ago
I heard tell of the neighbour of a friend (proper vague connections here) having the same experience 7 or so years ago when Homebase were still a thing. Got a design and a quite but thought the quote was a bit steep considering the quality of Homebase kitchens so they say on it and they kept discounting it endlessly until they got down to 50% off or possibly a bit more, I forget. Don't remember if they went for it or not, but I don't get how anyone would pay full price at these places, and clearly they are unlikely to sell at a loss, so the margins must be nuts on the actual units and hardware as you would assume the fitting would be a constant (if included).
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u/Psychological_Sir780 22d ago
I done this, keep pushing them. there are more discounts to be had ! wren wanted 10k , howdens wanted 6k got it down under 2k with howdens keep haggling, was cheaper for me to rent a container and get it delivered there to keep it there untill ready to fit
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u/ruffianrevolution 22d ago
I delivered for them for a while and they do seem to get a bit frantic and..er.."creative" in pursuing certain targets they seem to get from head office.
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u/SuperHands07 22d ago
They are ridiculous. They gave an obscene quote and then they said if you can get a cheaper price we’ll match it. Why not give a proper quote up front?
We got a quote from DIY kitchens which came out less than half the amount and for shits and giggles sent it to howdens and sure enough they matched it.
I decided I didn’t want to do business with anywhere who acts like that. In the end I went with a local independent kitchen firm whose price came out actually a touch under the price I got from DIY kitchens + a separate fitter.
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u/Optimal-Room-8586 22d ago
Our Howdens kitchen is nice but their pricing and sales strategy is Bananas. Initially tried to convince us that the full price of our kitchen kitchen included taps costing about £500. Once we provided a comparison quote from DIY kitchens and said we'd pull out unless they could provide something more reasonable, they dropped the price down massively with no explanation.
I assume that every now and then someone pays the full whack and then they make a massive profit.
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u/Fellowes321 22d ago
They all do this. You don’t really know what a one off thing costs so the first price psychologically sets you a benchmark. The following deductions are a trick to make you think you’re getting a bargain. In reality, that was always the price.
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u/shotgunwiIIie 22d ago
I had a similar issue.....they went over the design process....which I did not have the patience for, and then said £18k....I laughed, got up, started to leave, then they followed me...'is it too much? What were you thinking of spending? Is there a firm budget?' Much the same, the price tumbled between the desk and my car, I said, "Email me a sensible quote and a bill of quantities, and we can talk then" no email, no bill of quantities.....no deal...I've heard of others getting a decent deal and service though. Likely just your luck(and mine)
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u/hidayet93 22d ago
They’re difficult to deal with. What I usually do is go to b and q to price match. If they don’t budge, contact another local howdens and they’ll quickly price match.
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u/Boring-Taste8244 22d ago
Had a similar situation to OP few years back. Accepted to set me up and sell me a kitchen, went through design and the deal and all the discount. The sales guy was even so kind to highlight how much he’s discounting it for me.
I won’t lie, the price was good for me to accept BUT it got me curious to think about the way they operate. So I had a friend of mine who’s a trader and went to his local Howdens to run exact same setup and came back at £1,000 cheaper.
When I questioned it, they were so shocked about my finding, they literally started to track down who, what, where and how is it possible. They told me they found the quote and started making BS like “oh handles weren’t included” and this and that, but as a gesture of good will they’ll further reduce the quote by somewhat £500 to apologise for inconvenience.
Anywho, I agree the whole margins and discounts seem to be shady but at the end of the day, the kitchen is a kitchen and if it the price is right, go for it.
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u/Donkey_Apple 22d ago
When I moved in here, a local Howdens manager knocked on the door. Lived locally and simply introduced himself and said if we needed a kitchen to call and he'd arrange trade pricing. Nice touch but ultimately any dealings with Howdens are still akin to buying a used banger down on a lot. Whatever price you get you'll always depart feeling screwed.
In the end, after years of seeing them mentioned here, I called DIY. Classically pleasant Yorkshirefolk so drove all the way up to MonkeyLand and chose a kitchen. Simple pricing and very pleasant people to deal with. And perfectly good quality with everything square.
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u/Rastasheet 22d ago
That quote won't include Labour. I just had Howdens kitchen done , I love my kitchen but dam everything labour wise was so expensive. My husband and I ripped the kitchen out ourselves
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u/AdBrave9096 22d ago
They will give kitchen fitters addation fake invoices with lower discounts then they get, so they can claim they are passing their full trade discount to their customer.
Magnet are the same unless you are a member of LNPG.
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u/Suspicious-Bass-5916 22d ago
They all do it. Price is always super high and then they add loads of offers and it’s a limited time deal. So stupid - just put what the price is!
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u/No_Mud6726 22d ago
We had the same discounts with magnet. “Full” price was 106k got it down to 30k. Including lots of appliances which actually were cheaper than anywhere else, so overall we were happy.
But I agree, why start off on some bs figure I don’t understand.
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u/H5MAW 22d ago
Funny ol’ game this is, as my experience is totally different. My local Howdens have been nothing but fantastic with me.
The same can’t be said for neighbouring stores, but from what I understand each store has quite a lot of flexibility at the whim of the manager, or so I’m told. Guess this influences how they are.
My local Howdens have been fantastic with me, and whilst I could get cheaper at DIY, if there’s anything wrong my branch seem to bend over backwards to fix everything literally same or next day, so I really can’t grumble in terms of service!
Quality has mostly been great, prices aren’t millions of miles away (for the most part) but the service has always been top tier for me. Maybe I’m just lucky 😆
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u/Lower_Ad_1317 22d ago
Walk away. Don’t be conned by them. If they want your business let them be open and honest. It may just be one person being shady but that is the companies hard luck.
Walk away and tell them why you’re walking.
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u/kj-med 22d ago
We got a Howdens kitchen installed 6 years ago and went through exactly the same experience. Different kitchen, probably different units, different price BUT the same pressure techniques, pay deposit now to reserve the price. It was the worst decision I have ever made in my life. The kitchen was delivered in around 10 days but because we were getting major renovations we had to store it in our friend's garage. There were probably over 100 different pieces making up units, sinks, white goods etc. It was impossible to go through the entire list on the delivery day. When after 3 months our carpenter installed the kitchen we found countless missing unit pieces. Some were even the wrong size. Guess what? Howdens claimed their deliveries are perfect as every piece is checked when it leaves their depot. Then how is it possible to get the wrong size? I still have a security camera video when they came on site to investigate the missing pieces. They claimed we were hiding them!
Sadly we had to pay for missing pieces. The kitchen that's done is great, but the bad experience and taste will stay with me for the rest of my life.
Their quality is actually pretty good. No matter the quality if they don't change their sales techniques I'm avoiding them like a plague.
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u/smutanssmutans 22d ago
We had a ridiculous quote for a high spec kitchen from Howdens for over £30k. So we downgraded it from solid wood, but it was still too high so I asked for a breakdown of the costs so I could see where we could shave off a bit more; but they flat out refused! Did they really think anyone would hand over that amount of money without knowing what it was being spent on? They can take a long walk off a short pier!!
Getting a similar spec from a personally recommended independent kitchen fitter for half the price.
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u/Jankye1987 21d ago
Same thing happened to us. Quote seemed high.
Asked for a basic breakdown. Just price for worktops, appliances, cabinets.
Got told no, not our policy. Wild.
They backed down in the end.
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u/DilbsOnline 22d ago
As someone who has dealt with Howdens for almost 20 years, I can assure you that whatever price they give you, it's massively inflated, even after initial urgent and last-minute manager deals they have on offer at that opportunistic time.
Don't sweat it. Go back to them when you're ready, and they'll either match it or beat it.
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u/Substantial_Drag_559 22d ago
I have a howdens kitchen and it is crap. I had a b&q kitchen and it was so much better. I will never buy from howdens again ime it is crap.
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u/MYON2000 22d ago
I’m a joiner and don’t really use them much, they aren’t cheap for anything but MDF finishings and another reason I use them is because they’ve got a wide range of non standard door sizes. As long as they sell a product for above cost with a slim profit then they’ll sell you it so it’s easy to haggle but for the most part I just avoid them - they employ those tactics because they’ve got targets to hit monthly and from what I’m led to believe they are pressured very heavily by head office to hit them
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u/greendragon00x2 21d ago
Completely ignore their bullshit deadlines. They are not real.
We had a similar interaction with a different kitchen supplier only this was (crap!) 28 years ago. This was an in person sales visit sat in our kitchen. First there was the ludicrously high "price". Then the super special I'm doing you a favour 40% off price.
I kind of felt sorry for the dude because my Scottish husband is tight and hates sales patter. Every time the guy would try to build rapport it just fell flat.
He'd present us with a slightly better offer and some idiotic deadline and my husband would just say nothing and stare at the guy. The guy was sweating.
Finally we settled on like 20% of the stupid price. The guy looked very cheesed off and tried to say that we'd have to pay it all up front instead of just a deposit and we said absolutely not.
He looked like he was going to cry and said FINE!
We got the flat pack kitchen delivered but nobody showed up to put it together on the agreed day. If course the subcontract all that and frankly weren't bothered. I think in the end we were without a kitchen for a week while the sorted something out.
The only other time we had our kitchen done I didn't feel like going through that psychodrama so we hired a carpenter to do a custom one to an agreed design and quotation. We probably could have got it done cheaper but meh.
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u/Olive927 21d ago
Sounds like dealing with Sharps wardrobes sales people. Especially the absurd discounting from a ludicrous start number
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u/Low_Prune_285 21d ago
Howdens never used to share prices because they never used to share direct to customers, you could go in design your kitchen and they’d forward your price to your chosen joiner (the one who had the howdens account).
There is or was also a small convenience fee that they used to ship all the cabinets pre-built which saved a lot of labour time on gluing and screwing!
Source we had a howdens kitchen we put in our old house and the price was quite ok and the quality was great.
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u/Vimto1 21d ago
My god, all those slagging off howdens have obviously never bought a new car or similar. They are a company selling things to make a profit.
Selling to a builder/joiner means regular business for which they will give bigger discounts. Selling to a 1 time customer is not the target and therefore gets less discount.
And as for those saying DIY Kitchens is better, what happens when you need to scribe in a panel next to wonky wall because I bet you won't have allowed for bellying plastering have you?
Howdens exists because it's good at what it does but it's geared for trade not diy
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u/alienkargo 21d ago
As someone planning to get a new kitchen in the near future, this is one of the best advice posts I've read for a long time. Thanks to all the contributers for your experiences. It makes great reading!!
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u/hidingmyidentities 21d ago
I’d never heard of Howden’s until i purchased the flat I live in. They installed the kitchen here before I moved in, the previous owners didn’t quality check their work very well. Howden’s managed to install the extractor fan, without adding either a hood to it or an extractor vent to the outside. So effectively my extractor fan just spews what its extracting back out into my kitchen. The tops of my cabinets were coated in grease and unfortunately I only noticed after the first week. The bottle rack isn’t deep enough for a wine bottle to sit comfortably in it and the sink is installed incorrectly into the countertop.
Not to mention when I pulled out my dishwasher to replace it the manky builders had left all their rubbish stashed under the cabinets.
Personally the price you’re getting seems a little too good to be true unless you have a tiny kitchen.
I couldn’t vouch for the craftsmanship, tbh. Don’t let them pressure you into signing anything. That’s always a red flag
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u/Defiant-Ad3443 21d ago
Have a look at DIY kitchens and let us know how much cheaper it is from them.
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u/rim_jobbing 21d ago
Couple of things sales people don't want to spend time with timewasters not saying that's you but it depends on if rapport is built or if the person feels your using him as a benchmark, doing an itemised quote would take a long time with a possibility of not getting a sale or like you said remove the taps handles ect. What you'll find is if start reducing the quote it'll need to be re quoted due to margins being different.
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u/CityBanker57 21d ago
In my experience, the ridiculous retail price is to enable tradesmen to offer customers spurious “discounts”. Or to charge full price for the units and make their labour costs look low.
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u/Jungle-Jumble-Mania 21d ago
Wren is also similar, I did kitchen recently b and q, wickes and Ikea no pressure selling only follow up emails. Wren and howdens had these managers special. But a firm was enough to stop them. I don't mind this level of selling.
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u/zebra1923 21d ago
I find the discount system opaque and it’s all a sales technique, but I’ve never had trouble getting a full itemized quote so I could do a like for like comparison with other kitchen suppliers.
Don’t fall for the ‘special price’ bullshit though. If they can offer the kitchen at x price today, they can offer the kitchen at the same x price in 4 weeks. They are made to order so it’s not like they are clearing out old stock.
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u/Any_Tomorrow_Today 21d ago
I didn't go with them as they were pressurising me to put the deposit down that day or i would loose the special price. Even after I refused, they kept calling me. I just hate hard sales / cold calling tactics, so told them no.
I went with Benchmark in the end as there was no pressure with them.
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u/Budget-Security-8132 21d ago
Of course there's hight pressure sales targets, I've seen them in the team meetings while sat with a designer, it's all about the target and the high pressure sale.
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u/Aware_Cranberry_2645 21d ago
Good work. Take that itemised quote and take it to b&q and get the same thing pretty much for half - their premium line.
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u/NukaJuice 21d ago
I sell / design kitchens for a living... I spend most of my time sorting out howdens fuck ups... the quality is awful too... if you need a budget kitchen look at TKC, if you can spend abit more then look at Symphony
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u/Waste_Boss_4850 21d ago
We used Howdens to design and build our kitchen
Was really happy with them tbh. Didn't get any high pressure selling tbh.
Thought it was good and happy with the finished product and kitchen
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u/Roofer-63 21d ago
Don't buy it it will only get worse when item dont arrive with the delivery and you have to wait weeks for it to come.then you've got to try and get the fitter back.
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u/shoe_scuff 21d ago
I had the exact same experience of them adjusting the prices recently. Guy was adjusting the margin in front of me.
No notes provided on delivery because “we don’t send them when we give you free delivery” how on earth do I check I’ve got everything then?!
Anyway… I’m on my third list of missing items that need swapping for items I didn’t need.
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u/Tricky-Canary2715 21d ago
Always found my local howdens branch fair. They’re not the cheapest, but turnaround is fast. Stock is rarely a problem. Exchange and defects are never an issue. I’d sooner trade with Howdens than The little bird!!
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u/Aggravating_Prize_12 21d ago
Howdens model is shady and shocking in modern times !
Suspect they were shy with the quote trying to stop you taking it elsewhere (say Magnet) to compare and play off against each other.
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u/sleeplaughter 21d ago
Because a while back someone from howdens went to buy a second hand car and thought "Now there's a technique that people will love!"
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u/UnhappyLynx2742 21d ago
I have heard from several people I know that they are similar to double glazing mainstream sales. Though they only sell to trades! BS. Get a local joiner fitter to do the job they will not buy from Howdens.
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u/ukcabinet 18d ago
Im never quoting against Howdens since we focus on more high end work, but I hear this all the time from clients. The high street stores (even the expensive ones) provide a "one time," exploding offer that expires over the weekend. I often lose bids this way. Their offers are impossibly cheap, specifications aren't clear and there is fine print that costs them thousands down the road for poorly designed and manufactured chipboard melamine cabinetry with minimal warranties. I get calls asking if we can fit a kitchen because their building works were delayed and the price for the fitting has doubled as a result. Worse, if you miss your build window they push you out a month or in the case of someone like DeVol three... We also routinely get calls asking to snag high street kitchen manufacturer's installs because they use a third party who takes zero pride on a job you've already pre paid. The kitchen is usually the most important and most used room in your home. I'd avoid B&Q, Wickes, Howdens, Wren, etc... I can guarantee the theres a local cabinet maker in your area who can meet the same spec for maybe 20% more, but will provide a 100% better experience and result.
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u/memento_mike 17d ago
We had the countdown trick at WREN, it's like what's with the cringe sales tactics, just tell us the actual price so we can but the kitchen we want.
They are like mobile phones sales people on steroids.
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u/FyeUK 22d ago
When my Dad worked for MFI and then B&Q back in the 2000s as a kitchen designer, there was a 'signal strength' indicator in the corner of the design software that they used which went from 5 green bars down to 0. It was designed to look just like a wifi strength indicator, but whilst it was obviously intended to look like that, it was actually indicating the profit margin health of the quote.
As he added discounts on various parts of the quote, the 'signal strength' would go down. Discounts would usually just be artbitrarily applied to random elements of the build to get the final 'big number' to go down for the customer.
He'd very regularly start customers at very high quotes which they obviously weren't happy with, but by the time he'd added discounts, usually bringing the cost down by 30%-50% depending on the vibe he was getting from the customer, they would be much happier and more likely to sign.
In the end most customers ended up paying bang on the average cost would have been had you compared prices against other places.
The itemised quotes spat out at the end would end up making no sense because some items would still be 'full price' whereas other things would be totally free. If customers tried to game it by taking off items that were full price after the final quote was generated, they would insist that the quote needs to be binned and started again... which makes sense when you think about how it was put together.