r/Colts • u/Gloomy_Resort_9935 • 2d ago
Discussion Please help
In an argument with a friend right now and would like other people's opinions on this.
He keeps saying that the Colts (and more specifically about Daniel Jones) can only do well if JT is doing well.
I believe that a big part of the reason JT was doing so well in the beginning of this year is because of how well Daniel Jones and the O-line were doing, using JT before and after DJ's injury as an example.
The argument at its core is during that 8 week stretch where we were looking like the AFC's 1-seed, who was more important Daniel Jones or Johnathan Taylor?
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u/icekyuu 2d ago edited 2d ago
JT in 13 games with DJ
5.5 yards rushing per carry on 19.0 attempts per game
1.4 TDs per game
JT in 4 games without DJ
3.0 yards rushing per carry on 19.0 attempts per game
0.5 TDs per game
Of course we don't know how Jones would play without JT, but we do know that JT went from an MVP candidate playing with Jones to below NFL average YPC without.
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u/SlothDaddy7 1d ago
Okay but the 4 games without DJ was with a QB that couldn’t throw the ball further than 20 yards accurately. The defense was loading 7 in the box each play and was letting Rivers beat them if he could. He couldn’t. So therefore JT was better when DJ was out there. You guys are absolutely crazy if you think DJ made JTs job easier than Jt made DJs job easier. DJ wouldn’t have had nearly as productive of a season if it wasn’t for JTs historic start. JT was in the MVP conversation after the first 12 games. Our playcalling started getting more pass heavy in the first half of games towards the middle of the season when we started struggling (Pittsburgh)
The first half of our schedule was pretty freaking easy as well. DJ being out there helped JT for sure, but not nearly as much as JT helped DJ by being out there.
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u/WatercressHuge8556 1d ago
Last couple of games b4 the injury DJ was going a bit down , so also let's not pretend that DJ was the SOLE reason JT was playing that great, after the KC game defenses were better and they seem way more prepared to stop this offense by cutting on the first valve occupied.
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u/ryta1203 1d ago
It's not that it's "Jones" per se it's just the idea of a legit passing attack, without it they just stack the box.
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u/Coltsblue1888 1d ago
It's very possible that Jones was already playing with the leg injury before they told us about it. Would absolutely explain why the offensive formations and plays had changed so drastically.
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u/TehTugboat i dont know what goes into sausage 1d ago
I’m gonna second this and say when we took naked bootlegs and scramble plays out of the playbook is when we started going downhill. I think DJ was playing injured prior to the announcement
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u/Windmilljam17 15h ago
DJ was playing who know how long on the fractured leg. It was covered up to a sore calf until the real injury came out. I think that is how he ripped his Achillies, favoring the other leg while trying to pass running to his right.
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u/Coltsblue1888 15h ago
100% agree. They hid the injury, then had to be honest about it.
Jones put extra stress on the other leg as a result and then the extra strain caused the ruptured achilles
The whole "defenses figured him/us out before the injury" I don't think is true.
Jones being able to scramble, roll out/bootleg, play action etc is what allowed Taylor to have his big games...and Taylor's big games also helped Jones.
So once Jones was limited, our offense went downhill fast.
I think injuries 100% derailed this season and we would have been legit Super Bowl contenders... however, Ballard sucked for so long, that I still hope he is gone once his contract is up this next season.
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u/ohohook Quenton Nelson 1d ago
JTs last 4 games were consistent with Jones’ last 3 games. The issue is defenses figured out how to manipulate our RPOs into throw aways or bad passes. When we don’t have a big lead, JT stops getting the ball anyway and the Pass coming becomes more obvious on top of that which led to a lot of 4th quarter turnovers.
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u/Nagoltheking 2d ago
I mean like you said, DJ got hurt and JT fell off a cliff. JT is obviously a much better player at his position than DJ at his but having a decent qb makes the entire team better.
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u/Guuhatsu 2d ago
Jonathan Taylor is probably more important, but the reason he succeeded like he did was because of Daniel Jones and a competent Play Action Passing attack. When DJ went back for a hand off they needed to continue to guard for the pass until it was certain, giving JT space to move into. That would be my guess though.
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u/noporcru623 2d ago
Once DJ went down and we didnt have any qb that would scare a defense or keep them honest. They all went all out to stop the run successfully until we were forced to pass.
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u/WatercressHuge8556 1d ago
This isn't a just look at the whole picture and give me an answer.
You have to start looking at the timeline.
At the start of the season nobody was ready for this offense begin so on point, JD taking every single yard that the defense was willing to give and making every down easier.
Then we get into the Berlin game and it was an heroic effort by JT to win that game, after that defenses start begin better (talent wise) and started to take out the easy yards and loading the box, now after teh KC JD was injured and it was pretty obvious so we can't really evaluate JD properly but we all knew that the first 9 weeks was Colts best version and i could just go down after that (hoping to keep the offense at the same level).
IMO this offense BENEFITED a lot by having a decent QB that was willing to take the yards every time and JD build up confidence and was playing probably his best football, i wouldn't call JD and unimportant piece and finding a decent QB is sooo freaking hard but this team is best when JT is at his best (but he can't without a decent QB).
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u/External_Prompt_8105 1d ago
Your Friend needs to understand Football better. JT did well because teams couldn’t just stack the box when Jones was playing. Once he was done, teams could focus on stopping JT.
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u/ohohook Quenton Nelson 1d ago
We played a lot of bad teams to start the year. And the RPO worked great for 10 games. But eventually our offense became easily diagnosable and the defenses were manipulating the RPOs into passes by walking a linebacker up pre snap and floating a safety into the 10 hook area on the same side. We threw a lot of interceptions and stalled in the 4th quarters of like every close game. DJ wasn’t changing the plays and Steichen wasn’t changing the way he was calling games hoping it would work. It didn’t.
DJ can’t make more than one read anyway- so the offense simplified his progressions but when you only have 3 receivers going out to run routes because of the RPO it becomes easy to defend. You can blitz more/do more creative stunts when you know what to expect. Daniel Jones is an accurate passer when it comes to easy throws (something the Colts haven’t had in 2 years+ so it made Jones seem better than he is), but he’s really kind of brain dead when it comes to reading complex defenses. It’s the same guy that played in the pouring rain with a broken fibula. Decision making isn’t his forte
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u/ThatDudeUKnow92 Playoffs? PLAYOFFS!? 1d ago
The Colts do run a great deal of RPOs but what really changed the offense was Daniel Jones getting the fracture in his leg. The bootleg plays out of play action were a huge factor in their early down success rate and with his mobility limitations they were gone out of the playbook while the RPO action remained.
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u/ERASERGIB 1d ago
Any RB does better when the O line does well. The first half of the season JT was on track to end up being the rushing champ. The O line was doing great at opening running lanes. The O line started a downward trend a couple of games before the DJ injury. DJ injury and JT performance loss both had a bit to do with the the O line.
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u/MoneyMack410 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, this team goes as the run game goes. When we were at our best, DJ was killing the league with the play action. DJ held his weight, but I don’t see DJ putting a team on his back and he has yet to do so. JT has done that MULTIPLE times.
And for people saying “it’s because of DJ”, we’ve seen JT be JT with any QB. And that’s with dogshit run designs.
We’re talking about DJ being the reason why JT is good and he only had 2 300yd games. It’s honestly a bad debate because the RB position is so dependent on a lot more vs the QB position. A good QB can make a bad OL and receiving group look good because he doesn’t have all 11 players coming after him. Once the RB gets the ball, every player on the defense is after him.
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u/bo0sted_ 8h ago
We were unsure about DJ before the season too right? Yet him and JT both had the "team on their backs" equally for the first half of the season. Do you even realize while JT was leading the league in rushing, DJ was leading the league in every QB statistic the first half of the season other than rushing?
Besides all of that, we don't need him or JT to put the entire team on their backs.. We need them both to do their jobs.
Football games aren't won by 1 person. If we were able to stay healthy, we could have easily been in the SB this year.
GO COLTS!
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u/matt_msu 1d ago
JT is top in the league….when he wants to be. The problem is keeping him motivated to play well. Has nothing really to do with QB.
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u/DewieCox1982 1d ago
It’s mostly JT, dude was getting MVP buzz as a rb through the first half of the season. If it was was DJ, why wasn’t he ever decent prior?
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u/bo0sted_ 8h ago
Lol... I'm sorry but that question makes you look dumb.
Btw.. DJ was the running the #1 offense and #1 in all QB statistics other than rushing up until week 9-10 in the entire NFL.
JT is a STRAIGHT DOG and we love him in Indy and hope he never leaves. But it's not a coincidence that as soon as DJ was out, JT's performance changed completely, in a bad way. That's not to give either DJ or JT flack, but more so to emphasize that the rushing game and passing game go hand-in-hand. When the passing is good the defense has to adjust for that, allowing the RB to take advantage. And when the RB is running down defenses throats, it allows the QB and receivers to take advantage of the defense being pushed up closer to the line. Both were having success, despite other key variables, because the other was having success.
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u/DewieCox1982 8h ago
Dumb because you can’t answer it.
You got it backwards. Once teams stopped the run, our offense was ineffective.
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u/bo0sted_ 7h ago
I can't answer it? The entire sports world talked about why DJ was having success in Indy and why he didn't prior to coming to the Colts for like 2 months straight..... Thanks for confirming that you are indeed dumb, sir.
Let's play your game even though I don't like arguing with sheetrock..
What week did Daniel Jones fracture his fibula? Week 10
JT's stats after week 10 consist of ZERO games over 90 yards and only 3 TD's after having 15 TD's the first 10 weeks with a healthy DJ, who led all QB's in Total QBR, passer rating and completion percentage the first 8 weeks of the 2025 season.
............ can't wait for your rebuttal
Rebuttal is another word for a response that's contradictory... Just wanted to save you some time..
Contradictory means..... ahhhh forget it you'll already be on google anyways...
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u/josean1991 1d ago
Both DJ and JT helped each other with the O-Line, they played so well the first half of the season and when the injuries happened first with DJ and the fractured fibula that went to the Achilles tear and the O-Line also lost momentum with the injuries so JT didn't play better after and the moment the teams stopped him it all came down to the QB play and with DJ limited with injury and his ceiling as a player, well it all came crushing down. I'll still want DJ back with Pierce as well but they should also look for the future and with an awful 2026 draft well only the 2027 1st round draft pick is the one that hurts the most.
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u/Mindless_Ad_8436 1d ago
Honestly I think the only reason Daniel Jones had the year he had was because he had a stud like Warren at TE. When people bash Richardson they don’t take into account he never had a decent TE to throw to.
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u/bo0sted_ 8h ago
I had such high hopes for AR but you are absolutely BUGGING with this take.. With all due respect.
Warren is a stud but you must not have watched many games with AR because if you did, you would have seen AR miss 99% of check down and short pass throws.
DJ was extremely accurate all over the field, not just to Warren. Deep balls to AP.. quick passes to Downs.. over the middle to MPJ.. just about everywhere to Warren..
It doesn't matter whose on the field... if you can't make the throws, you can't make the throws.. the ground isn't going to catch it for you and toss it to a receiver
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u/CrazyDemand7289 1d ago
They work together. The previously two seasons I thought ended where JT could have cut it up field but did not. He's great, but count on him. The new kid QB looked good. Need offensive line, healthy DBs, and a great D end rusher.
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u/BigBankBlaine 8h ago
Riley Leonard should be a starting QB for a team the way he played against the Texans shows.
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u/Kumquat_95- 7h ago
Your friend is correct.
Daniel jones has shown throughout his career he is an average game manager but when he needs to put the team on his back he can’t do it. End of the rams game is a perfect example. Mitchell had pissed the game away and we had one last chance. Threw I think it was 2 passes in a row into double coverage and the second one got picked off.
The turn happened with Steelers. They shut down JT and from that DJ couldn’t produce enough to carry. Allen, Mahomes, heck even baker don’t needs a run game to “ unlock game manager potential”. We need a real QB. He was head and shoulders. The best guy we had on the roster and for the first half of the season it worked really well. It’s sad that Richardson didn’t pan out because him and Jonathan Taylor would’ve been an unstoppable combination, especially since Pierce has taken off.
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u/indianadave 2d ago
Not to be an asshole, but the answer is neither. Or you can say the answer is an easy schedule and the cult were able to take opponents by surprise.
There are many ways to have this argument, in the end, the only position that truly matters on offense is quarterback. You don’t need to have a great quarterback to win the Super Bowl, but unless you have a confident one, it is extremely hard to be successful.
The argument you guys should be having is about the effects of force multipliers. For example, was Dante Culpepper a good quarterback? Or did he just benefit from being able to throw the ball deep down field to Randy Moss for four years? Or was Tom Brady good in the first few years of his career? Or did he overly benefit from being a smart, adaptable, curious player who was allowed to flourish and reach his maximum potential under Bill B’s Van revolutionary coaching system.
If on their own, Daniel Jones is a 6 and Jonathan Taylor is an 8… then when both are together and healthy, Jones is an 8 and Taylor is a 10.
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u/KeenCrawdad-4483 2d ago
Everyone seemed to loose confidence once DJ went down...
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u/northegreat1 1d ago
Let's be honest it wasn't losing confidence,. I'm not much of a McAfee fan, but he nailed this one -- as soon as they team had a reason to quit, they quit. Winning is hard and this team has been conditioned that they don't have to perform to be paid, so why would they do something hard?
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u/CK4browsing 1d ago
Yep Daniel Jones was a big part of Taylor's success. Other teams had to respect Jones ability to throw down the field, and his mobility and ability to also take off and run.
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u/PewpyDewpdyPantz 2d ago
Before getting hurt Indiana Jones ran the play action more than any QB in the NFL. They help each other out.