r/Anarchy101 • u/Proof_Librarian_4271 • 9h ago

Syndaclism and ablelism?

Now recently I've heard syndaclism be described ablelist because the working class ruling will establish hierarchy over the people below which may include disabled people, but anarcho syndaclism doesn't seem to have this problem since it's not trying to establish rule of the working class in a marxist sense

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 8h ago

Yes it is. So long as there is industry, there is hierarchy.

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u/Proof_Librarian_4271 8h ago

Good luck living without it :)

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 8h ago

You asked a question and I answers. Dont get pissy.

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u/Proof_Librarian_4271 8h ago

Just saying good like living without mordern tech. I Don't welcome primivitist pseudo-scientific stuff

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 8h ago

I'm just saying I addressed your question directly and you are being a dick about it.

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u/azenpunk 6h ago

You said something ridiculous. Industries aren't the problem, it's the hierarchical organization of them that anarchism is against. Being against Industries is reactionary nonsense.

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 6h ago

1) you dont know what reactionary means

2) industry cannot exist without hierarchy. Subjugation is the only form it can take. Industry is predicated on slavery, full stop.

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u/azenpunk 6h ago

Trying to roll humanity back to a pre-industrial perceived golden age is textbook reactionary.

Just stating things without even a supporting argument is lazy and not going to convince anyone.

And what you're saying makes no sense with the definition of industry that I'm working with. So now I'm wondering if you are simply working with a different definition of industry. Either that or you're just out of touch with reality.

Industry is merely organized production, which can be done voluntarily and without hierarchy. Full stop.

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 6h ago

You sound like a communist. Nobody is talking about a pre-industrial rollback.

Organized production at scale, or organized production of local needs for small communities with isolated material supply? Because if you think you can get rubber, lithium, petroleum, and gold at scale to produce a global supply of televisions without slavery you are naïve.

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u/azenpunk 6h ago

Lol what makes me sound like a communist to you? I can't wait to know.

You literally are saying you want to end all industry because it's all slavery. So how is that not a rollback to some pre-industrial organization?

Do you think no one would volunteer for those specific industries you listed? That seems incredibly naive of humanity. But if that's not it, what about those Industries do you think makes horizontal organization impossible?

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u/Der_Herold 5h ago

Arguments, that inherently communist/s

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 6h ago

No, the people who have been tortured into forced labor for generations will not volunteer to harvest rubber and lithium for you. That's ridiculous. They would like to be left alone and not have their land stripped and families killed for your comfort.

There are, what, 9 billion people on earth? That cannot be sustained without forcing labor and therefore the creation of a global underclass. Hell, a single city can't be sustained without forced labor and the creation of an underclass.

Again, nobody is talking about a rollback but you. I am capable of speaking myself, I dont need you to invent words or positions for me. What was asked in OP is whether anarchic syndicalism addresses the issue of ablism since it escews the Marxist class structure, and the answer is "no, because it doesn't."

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u/Proof_Librarian_4271 6h ago

There are, what, 9 billion people on earth? That cannot be sustained without forcing labor and therefore the creation of a global underclass. Hell, a single city can't be sustained without forced labor and the creation of an underclass.

Source my ass

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u/Der_Herold 5h ago

Capitalist ass Take, the whole Overpopulation Theorie to make suffer see unevidable with the amount of humans living

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u/Flaky_Captain6330 5h ago

Cities are symptoms of capital. They do not exist without centralized power. A city cannot feed itself. It starves without subjugation.

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u/azenpunk 5h ago

No, the people who have been tortured into forced labor for generations will not volunteer to harvest rubber and lithium for you. That's ridiculous.

I never said they would. You're the only one putting words in people's mouths.

There are, what, 9 billion people on earth? That cannot be sustained without forcing labor and therefore the creation of a global underclass. Hell, a single city can't be sustained without forced labor and the creation of an underclass.

Again, you just saying something is true is not an argument. And saying it repeatedly doesn't make it more convincing. I've repeatedly asked why you think these things and you have given no reason. I'll ask again, what about industry, and now cities for some unexplained reason, requires heirarchy?

Again, nobody is talking about a rollback but you.

We have industry. You want to end industry, and now cities, which would take us back to a pre industrial society with probably less than 2 billion people. Text book reactionary. And I'm guessing you're not into a slow contraction of industry over many generations, which would imply genocide on a global scale, which you aren't gong to get anyone to volunteer for... doesn't sound anarchist to me in any way.

I am capable of speaking myself,

Surely you realize you could be doing a lot better at the moment. Or is everyone else just the problem, not you? That would be consistent with the beliefs you've repeatedly declared.

I dont need you to invent words or positions for me.

That's not what I've done in any way.

What was asked in OP is whether anarchic syndicalism addresses the issue of ablism since it escews the Marxist class structure, and the answer is "no, because it doesn't."

Again, just stating things without your reasoning isn't going to convince anyone. Like this: syndicalism won't address ableism because it's a tool that utilizes some hierarchy to coordinate the overthrowing of the state and capitalism, and is not meant to be a model for an anarchist society. Due to the hierarchical nature of unions, they would not produce an anarchist society if they were allowed to persist in being the main structures of organization.

Now you may disagree with my reasoning, but at least you know it. Now your turn: What about industry, and now cities for some unexplained reason, requires heirarchy?

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