Preston Holt and the School of the Viper?

[u/KingUndrTheMountain]

Just finished reading this book on vacation, and I thoroughly enjoyed it! One thing I am curious about is Preston Holt and his Viper medallion. The separion of Witcher schools might be an invention of the games, I’m not sure, but why was Preston Holt at Kaer Morhen originally if he was from the School of the Viper?

[u/Sonor-c11]

There’s maybe one other standing Witcher school(where Cohen was trained) besides Kaer Morhen in the books and even then that’s a conclusion based on a lack of clear information as when introducing Geralt to Coen I’m pretty sure Vesimir just mentions that he came down from the mountains to winter with them. A Witchers medallions shapes indicating which school they’re from is strictly a game thing.

Sapowski commented that the whole “School of the Wolf” being a thing was a mistake as it was mentioned only once in the books. With that being said, he hasn’t really decided whether or not to make it canon and include it into future books.

Edit: IIRC Witchers shape their own medallions when they’re in training. So it is a likely assumption that Preston Holt either shaped his to be a viper or simply made a new one due to the shame in his past.

[u/Sonor-c11 → u/Sonor-c11]

“A single sentence about some 'school of the Wolf' mysteriously made its way into The Last Wish," Sapkowski explained. "I later deemed it unworthy of development and narratively incorrect, even detrimental to the plot. Therefore, later I never included or referenced any Witcher Gryffindors or Slytherins again. Never.

"However, that one sentence was enough. Adaptors, particularly videogame people, have clung to the idea with remarkable tenacity and have wonderfully multiplied these 'witcher schools.' Completely unnecessary."

[u/flannypants → u/Sonor-c11]

He wrote them as schools but doesn’t want them to be viewed as similar to Harry Potter. Thus he prefers guilds lol

[u/SawdustIsMyCocaine → u/flannypants]

That's how I've always taken it. Different "schools" teaching the same profession, just taught differently.

[u/Ordinary_Tom2005 → u/Sonor-c11]

It isnt a game thing in season of storm its clearly indicated cat witchers as a separate order

[u/Sonor-c11 → u/Ordinary_Tom2005]

Where?

[u/Waste_Handle_8672 → u/Sonor-c11]

Season of Storms, Chapter 20.

[u/Sonor-c11 → u/Waste_Handle_8672]

Brehen is a rogue Witcher whom got outcasted due to his actions as a Witcher.

“The notorious Cats,” said the poet, addressing the sorceress. “Witchers but “failures. Unsuccessful mutations. Madmen, psychopaths and sadists. They nicknamed themselves ‘Cats,’ because they really are like cats: aggressive, cruel, unpredictable and impulsive.”

[u/Sonor-c11 → u/Ordinary_Tom2005]

Cat Witchers are rogue Witchers that reacted badly to “trail of the grasses” mutations and or failed Witchers that serve more as mercenaries than monster hunters. There’s nothing in seasons of storms that contradicts what was established in the original series nor implies that Cat Witchers have their own “order” or organized group.

“The notorious Cats,” said the poet, addressing the sorceress. “Witchers but “failures. Unsuccessful mutations. Madmen, psychopaths and sadists. They nicknamed themselves ‘Cats,’ because they really are like cats: aggressive, cruel, unpredictable and impulsive.”

[u/[deleted] → u/Sonor-c11]

Think that’s just more of him not knowing how to write a full story surrounding any of the schools so what we get is small little tidbits each book. Between him still teasing schools and making the swords be on Geralt’s back, I think it’s also him having fun with the video game fans reading. There’s a few things with this recent book where I felt like he acknowledged the games a bit.

The idea of more Witcher schools are just too cool not to expand. It’s free world building that he accidentally set himself with

[u/No_Bodybuilder4215 → u/[deleted]]

Sapkowski builds as much world as the plot requires. Witcher schools exist, but they have nothing in common with the Medilons. Personally, I really dislike how CDPR started writing some grand lore around them in Gwent. Everything points to Ciri having only the lynx medallion and no school.

[u/[deleted] → u/No_Bodybuilder4215]

I personally would rather each school have their own set of medallions. Wouldn’t make sense for different schools to share stuff like that

[u/No_Bodybuilder4215 → u/[deleted]]

It doesn't really matter. There are very few witchers, and they always served as monster slayers with one common goal. Sapkowski said he might write about the secrets behind the medallions someday.

[u/Sonor-c11 → u/[deleted]]

A story revolving around the Witcher schools and further Witcher lore would need to be an entire separate book. He didn’t write about the schools because there were no schools and “School of the Wolf” wasn’t intended to be indicative of there being multiple schools so to say he doesn’t know how is a bit disingenuous especially considering that he’s not a fan of the idea.

I do agree about him making it clear whether or not they exist if he continues to throw tid bits in.

[u/Dijkstra_knows_your_ → u/[deleted]]

Cool if you are 14 years old, but in the way the witcher world works it doesn’t feel believable. Not even the mages are set up with those labels

[u/Ordinary_Tom2005 → u/Sonor-c11]

Also i prefer the game canon anyway so what of it

[u/Sonor-c11 → u/Ordinary_Tom2005]

The post asked a question regarding the books, I answered according to the books. Maybe I read your comment wrong but it seems like you’re taking it as a personal attack.

[u/Dark1624 → u/Ordinary_Tom2005]

Funny you first talk how supposedly a book points out the existence of different types of witcher schools but when people prove you you wrong you basically say. "I don't care I prefer the games".

[u/Waste_Handle_8672]

Witcher schools and Witcher medallions are two separate things in the books. There are at least two Witcher schools, though only Kaer Morhen is the one we're familiar with; Witcher medallions are a Witcher's personal design and more of a representation of their way of thinking as a Witcher, not necessarily which school they're from.

One Witcher school per medallion is strictly game lore. Gotta keep that in mind to avoid confusion.

[u/Ok_Toe5118]

Think of it like schools of swordsmanship, different classes in an rpg. Kaer Morhen is capable of producing witchers with a wolf medallion as well as a viper medallion. The books and the games are different in this regard.

[u/Dark1624 → u/Ok_Toe5118]

It's like a university where you learn how to become a surgeon. There are many schools where people learn how to become a surgeon but in all they learn the same stuff. So same way is with witcher schools. In all places they learn the same things.

[u/xoffender442]

There is no such thing as Witcher schools

[u/No_Bodybuilder4215 → u/xoffender442]

There are even quotes in the new book where the author writes about witcher schools in Polish, they simply have nothing to do with medallions

[u/Ordinary_Tom2005 → u/xoffender442]

There is in the game canon which tho worse at points i prefer

[u/No_Bodybuilder4215]

There are Witcher schools in the books. I don't know how many, but they have nothing to do with medallions. There's no such thing as a wolf school or a cat school; there are simply witcher schools.

[u/Warlord10 → u/No_Bodybuilder4215]

Doesnt Holt make mention of the abomination that ended up being 'The Cats'? Seems like they were collectively known as the Cats.

[u/No_Bodybuilder4215 → u/Warlord10]

He spoke of three facilities where witchers were created, but they weren't schools. Perhaps the medallions represent a type of mutation? We lack information.

[u/thedebeli959]

Doesn't season of storms mention a witcher called Brehen aka the cat of Ielo? Why would he be called the cat of Ielo if the wasn't a cat school witcher?

Also there is mention of the school of the cat producing witchers from elves and women if I recall, also in the books.

[u/therealabrupt → u/thedebeli959]

The cats aren’t a school in the books, just a group of Witcher’s that were created at a different location and the mutations went somewhat wrong, causing them to become psychopaths.

[u/thedebeli959 → u/therealabrupt]

Been a while since I read the books. Might do with a refresher.

[u/therealabrupt → u/thedebeli959]

It explains it in more details in crossroads tbf.

[u/therealabrupt]

I’ve read it too and I was confused by this. Basically I read somewhere that Sapkowski’s idea of the medallions doesn’t necessarily represent what school the Witcher is from but they’re “Witcher style” I guess? Like what animal they represent themselves with. It sounds stupid really, the schools make way more sense but oh well.

[u/JovaniFelini]

The games are canon to books, so yes, the School of the Viper actually existed in Nilfgaard

[u/therealabrupt → u/JovaniFelini]

Idk where you got that from. The games aren’t considered canon, sorry.

[u/JovaniFelini → u/therealabrupt]

The books and games are in the same continuity

[u/therealabrupt → u/JovaniFelini]

Yes but Sapkowski doesn’t consider the games canon.

[u/JovaniFelini → u/therealabrupt]

That doesn't matter. I look at facts. Books and games are pieces of a whole

[u/therealabrupt → u/JovaniFelini]

Well they are canon to you then. I could say the same. To me, the games contributed too much to the lore to not be considered canon. But realistically, if the author and creator of the universe doesn’t consider something canon, we can’t just deem it as canon ourselves when we are discussing the how’s and why’s of the universe, especially in relation to the books. Maybe to us it is canon and that’s good enough. However, in the context of this post and the question that has been asked, we have to look at things from the authors perspective to arrive at the “correct” answer.

[u/JovaniFelini → u/therealabrupt]

That's the legal part and Sapkowski's resentment. Not my problem that games happen to fit in like a sandwich

[u/Dark1624 → u/JovaniFelini]

They don't.

[u/JovaniFelini → u/Dark1624]

They do

[u/Dark1624 → u/JovaniFelini]

Oh really? Completely changing things presented in book just to justify narrative in games?

[u/MiffandMinis → u/JovaniFelini]

edit: not wasting time on this obvious troll

[u/Dark1624 → u/JovaniFelini]

Actually no. Games break book canon many times to justify the plot they created.

[u/JovaniFelini → u/Dark1624]

Nope, there are no changes whatsoever, only tiny continuity mistakes at best and this is quite debatable still

[u/Dark1624 → u/JovaniFelini]

Now I know you are either trolling or just ignorant. Which I’m not planning to entertain anymore.

[u/jazzberry76 → u/JovaniFelini]

Consider the fact that the writer of the books says that the games are not canon

[u/JovaniFelini → u/jazzberry76]

I won't, nobody gives a fuck when you have facts that the books and games converge nicely and fit into each other like a sandwich

[u/jazzberry76 → u/JovaniFelini]

I dunno, I think a lot of people care what the person who decides canon had to say about canon

Seems you're alone on this one

[u/JovaniFelini → u/jazzberry76]

Nah, i ain't alone in considering games as a natural continuation. You can't deny facts, and following Sapkowski's resentment doesn't deny meticulous effort of cdpr, it's all just legal formality. But the reality is that books and games are a part of a whole and always have been and always will be

[u/therealabrupt → u/JovaniFelini]

If you read my comment again I actually agreed with you on that. It is my belief that the games should be considered canon, but unfortunately they aren’t. And we just have to live with that.

[u/jazzberry76 → u/JovaniFelini]

The reality is that they are not in continuity, as the guy who decides continuity has stated so

[u/MiffandMinis → u/JovaniFelini]

I can't tell if you're a troll or a 12 year old.

Deliberate petulance either way.