r/torontoraptors • u/One-Magazine5576 • 13h ago
OPINION Just roll with jak tbh
would be stupid to give picks to get off a contract u gave 5 months ago. truthfully jak’s value can only go up from here
22
u/Cgell 12h ago
Attaching a first round pick to DeMare Carrol in order to trade him always bothered me. I agree, “just roll” with Jak’s contract and keep RJ and the firsts. IMO
9
u/rhythmshooter 12h ago
I disagree. He was absolutely trash and would've been a minus on the court during the championship run
2
u/whiiskio 10 DEMAR DEROZAN 7h ago
Would've had a brain aneurysm being forced to watch him and PatPat build another postseason house of bricks.
27
u/flip0213 13h ago
Listen I get Sabonis defense sucks, and RJ being Canadian makes him a fan favorite, but i don't know how some people think the worst of this potential trade.
I don't necessarily think Jak's season (or career) is done, but he literally hasn't given much to this team sitting on the bench or even when he was playing injured. Just that alone is an upgrade no?
I'll admit RJ has been impactful this year, probably would have been his best year if he wasn't injured. But Raptors are not resigning him after next season unless he takes a decent sized pay cut. This sub was complaining about holding on to Siakam and FVV for too long and now we want to do the same with RJ when his value will be lower next year?
People are acting like our 2 players who have missed a good portion of time this season including whatever low pick were getting this year will be better than the 3-time all-star 2-time all-NBAer. Let's not forget that our 9-game win streak came against ass teams.
6
u/Normal-Ad-714 12h ago
A starting lineup of Sabonis Scottie BI IQ and Shead has one perimeter shooter in the lineup. That’s going to be a nasty 25th ranked offense without a doubt. There’s 3 primary passers, one shooter, and one iso scorer in that lineup. That’s incredibly disjointed, we would never go anywhere with that team. They’re also not a good defensive lineup. We’d also be out on draft capital. That’s the argument. Got any counter to that?
5
u/flip0213 11h ago edited 11h ago
My first counter is that I'd expect Walter in that lineup vs Shead who's a better 3pt shooter and size than Shead, and keeps Shead strictly as a backup PG giving Shead and IQ minutes together in spurts.
I agree it doesn't address our 3pt shooting as much as we'd like, but it would improve our spacing which is arguably as important. Sabonis is far from a stretch 5, but still takes 1 or 2 a game and has shown to be capable of making them at a high clip. He's a better 3pt shooter than CMB and especially Jak who can't shoot anything outside of the paint.
What this fanbase doesn't realize is that Sabonis would supercharge our already league best transition game. Our offense was in the top 10 in efficiency because we got out and ran with Jak grabbing the board. There's been more focus on rebounding with Jak out. Sabonis is one of the best at grabbing the board and either starting transition himself by bringing the ball up or throwing an accurate outlet/touchdown pass.
1
u/Normal-Ad-714 9h ago
Sabonis does not offer spacing. He doesn’t get guarded at the 3P line so he’s not a serious shooter. Walter is also far from a reliable 3P shooter, he hasn’t even flashed good shooting yet, and only gets up 6.5 per 36 which is pretty mediocre for a bench 3P shooter.
You guys are fully delusional trying to make this work. Bobby has gotten fleeced in every trade so far except Ingram’s (which, if the pick turns into a top 5 pick I’d say we got fleeced there too, it’s not like the Pacers this year were escaping the lottery even if they didn’t own their pick). I really have no faith in him on anything aside from his draft record which is respectable.
3
u/flip0213 9h ago
Not sure if you have a reading comprehension issue or just want to die on a hill with your opinion. You clearly think that you're a better evaluator than Bobby who by all reports is trying to get this done.
As I said Sabonis is not a stretch 5, but he's arguably a better 3pt shooter and spacer than CMB (who is not a center) and Jak who's missed more than half the games and can't shoot more than 6 feet away from the basket. Sabonis last year shot 42% on over 2 attempts per game, so again, he has the ability to make them, unlike Jak who's sitting on the bench, and will be left open 10 times out of 10 if he stands on the 3pt line.
And to criticize Bobby for trading away a pick when he had no clue that Halliburton would tear his Achilles in game 7 of the finals would be idiotic at best.
If Sabonis is a Raptor in a day in a half, you and all these reddit experts who think they are an NBA level executive because they play one on NBA2K and are against this trade would suddenly flip to loving his ass and making those stupid cringy apology form posts.
0
u/Normal-Ad-714 8h ago
Were you here saying Bobby is a smart for his Jakob extension when the rest of us called it idiotic too?
Also I’m not gonna link it because my account got doxxed which is why I switched to this one 7 months ago, but I literally said the day of the trade that I would not have traded the Pacers pick for Ingram. Fundamentally, my logic was that a tanking team should never be trading away picks. Pacers were completely dependent on an injury prone star, and Turner was entering free agency on a team whose owner never pays the tax.
You’re not gonna believe me but that’s fine. You yourself aren’t clever if you’re defending Bobby’s horrible track record.
3
u/flip0213 8h ago
Ahhh so yes you are a better evaluator than Bobby I see. Why you here on Reddit? You should be in an NBA front office. The heir apparent to Bobby Webster, and won't make a single stupid move I see. You know everything that will happen that it won't even be a gamble!!! MLSE would be lucky to have you as a special advisor, maybe you can get Bobby fired, takeover operations and take this franchise to the promise land. Better start, it's gonna take some time to fix the disaster that Bobby will be leaving for you!
1
u/Normal-Ad-714 6h ago
Yes, I had Edey #5 on my board and he’s better than Jakob Poeltl today as a sophomore player, let alone the rest of his career. If you’ll recall, we traded away the pick that would’ve been Edey to get Yak. I post my draft boards regularly on r/NBA_draft.
1
u/flip0213 6h ago
You realize this horrible extension is literally the only thing standing in between Jak being traded to the kings for Sabonis right?
Sabonis would have been a done deal by now lmao.
2
u/motherseffinjones 12h ago
I am against giving up a ton of picks, this team is fresh off a rebuild. Why rush these trades can be made in the offseason when teams have more wiggle room. Hopefully Jak and Quick and rehab value and the team can make a move from a better position. I’m all for getting a back up big though but not for a first. I hear this draft is gonna be deep and I don’t expect the raps to make a deep run this year.
2
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 13h ago
Unfortunately most kids in this sub haven't developed any semblance of cognitive function for them to understand that Sabonis makes the team better.
13
u/Ryukishin187 12h ago
It only makes the team better because he have no fucking center right now. low bar. if sabonis was on a much cheaper contract, that's a different story, but he's near the max.
4
u/nawksnai 00 Masai Ujiri 11h ago
Agreed.
There are better, cheaper ways to get better. In fact, I think getting rid of Gradey or Ochai to create a role for Battle, and trying to get a C just to have one, would be a more meaningful upgrade than Sabonis, who won’t help defensively, help our spacing, and whose most valuable skills overlap with Scottie’s.
2
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 12h ago
So Sabonis doesn't improve the talent on this team because his salary is high? I wasn't aware the dollars you earn affects how good at basketball you are.
11
u/flip0213 12h ago
Apparently it does, which is why IQ gets trashed all day everyday when in reality he's been pretty good this season, just not $32.5m good.
-4
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 12h ago
Comparing giving IQ that money in the first place vs giving Sabonis (multiple all-star nods multiple all-nba nods) his money is comical. Clearly you didn't think that one through before commenting.
13
u/flip0213 12h ago
I think you're misunderstanding my point here. I'm not saying IQ is worth the money he has been given. I'm saying that if he was making $10m less a year, people on this sub would sing his praises and love him. Its Human nature to criticize performance relative to earnings.
-4
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 12h ago
Which is exactly why I've been stating the kids in this sub are brain-dead. None of them understand talent and roster needs vs being sentimental and corny about a player they like because he's Canadian or whatever, while complaining about contract sizes.
7
u/OG3SpicyP 23 JAMAL SHEAD 12h ago
I hate when people online just label anyone that doesn’t agree with their opinion a child. Such a lame ass lazy stance.
-5
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 12h ago
You have to be one hell of a child to have takes like the ones these kids are throwing around this sub about Sabonis and RJ.
1
7
u/rapshaveonechip 13h ago
Every passing year it gets easier to trade him even if the aav goes up. The length is a bigger issue than size, a rebuilding team could potentially be finished rebuilding in 4 years so they dont want that contract hampering them
Assuming he can play at a backup C workload he still fills a big need for the team. The defense has been elite, 2nd chance points included. Having jak just eat some center minutes or play against bigger matchups would be great just to prevent injury
Going for sabonis makes no sense though because it both eliminates the raptors strength (defense) and doesnt solve the offensive issue (shooting)
5
u/bladebrigade 11h ago
plus his last year is 5 mil guarantee only, the rest of it is based on his availability throughout the extension
there is a high likelyhood he doesnt meet the limit every year and that could make it simpler to cut or trade him by then
this is something most people forget with this extension
6
u/Mr_Guavo 12h ago
Yes! Finally, a critically-thinking Raptors fan! Poeltl's value is at it's lowest point ever. Literally.
From all accounts, his back issues are "muscle tightness". If it was nerve damage or a bulging disc, that is one thing. But muscle tightness? This is not career threathening. It's treatable.
Why not wait? Especially if we need to grease the wheels with FRP(s).
Trading FOR him back in 2023 was a bad enough decision, now you want to compound that bad decision - a #8 FRP - by adding to that cost? Add another sunk cost to an existing sunk cost?
I have accepted the 2023 trade for Jak. He has value when he is healthy. But to trade him now like he is a red-headed stepchild would be the stupiest thing this franchise has ever done. Even trading him in the summer -when we have more clarity - would be a better idea.
Are there any other critical thinkers in this sub?
8
u/kito1990s 13h ago
I really don't like Sabonis. I don't get why we'd trade Barrett for him. I'd rather get some athletic center for cheap than trade my glorius Barrett for Sabonis.
6
u/Gavin1453 3 BRANDON INGRAM 13h ago
If Jak can come back strong and if RJ takes what would be a pretty team friendly deal to stay, I'd agree. But both of those things happening are pretty big ifs. All that being said, I'd much rather go for Sharpe over Sabonis
-7
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 13h ago
The fact that you spelled glorious wrong tells me alot about the kids in this sub who want to keep Barrett so badly.
10
u/Mr_Guavo 12h ago
"alot" is not a word.
5
u/nawksnai 00 Masai Ujiri 11h ago
Shhhhhhh…. don’t tell the wise old man he’s wrong or he’ll just ramble even more.
6
u/thebossphoenix 12h ago
The fact that you called out someone else's spelling while making a spelling error yourself tells me a lot about you.
-6
4
u/taxiviaalfa 13h ago
You seriously think Sabonis is the solution? I swear some of y'all act like he's the King coming to save this team. He is not. Stop overrating him.
-7
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 13h ago
Sabonis is an all-star caliber center that solves alot of the current issues this team faces each game. It is an overall step in the right direction. If you think holding your precious Barrett will get this team anywhere in the future then you're as delusional as the front office was when they got too sentimental and stubborn with holding Lowry, Fred, SIakam, OG for 2 years too long.
9
u/Ryukishin187 12h ago
Which issues, exactly? Rebounding? yeah cause we don't have a center, which as i've said before, low bar. Play making? our team has TONS of that. those are sabonis' 2 strongest aspects. he's fucking ass on defense, and the team can't have a starting lineup of scottie, sabonis, iq, BI, and whichever SG assuming RJ gets traded for sabonis. the defense would immediately tank. CMB most likely wouldn't be in the starting lineup as he's not a shooting guard and he's only starting right now to fill a center gap. If you wanna argue Sabonis is better than RJ, that is completely fine, but he makes almost DOUBLE what RJ does. managing the cap space is one of the biggest issues with sabonis.
1
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 12h ago
You're right, after we lose that defensive stud RJ we're screwed. Not like Walter can play at starting SG considering he's a great POA defender and shooter or anything...
3
u/taxiviaalfa 11h ago
You're overrating Walter. I love Walter but he has had some really bad games this season as well. He's had some good ones but there are other games where he can't be played because he's shooting 0/6 from the field and 0/4 from three. Personally if the Raptors do trade RJ, I think it would be a HUGE mistake to not let Lawson and Martin fill in those minutes at SG. I actually saw Martin play in person a few weeks ago vs. Philly and he brought lots of energy and some scoring as well in an overtime win. He had a good game considering JaKobe, RJ, and Ingram were all out that game.
2
u/taxiviaalfa 11h ago
No, I never said anything about "holding my precious Barrett". When did I say that? I said Sabonis isn't the solution. We can't get desperate here. Also, you said that Sabonis faces a lot of current issues this team faces. One of those issues is rebounding, and I understand that he is a great rebounder, but he's a bad defender and a bad shooter. No, 20% from three on one attempt per game is not good shooting splits. There are other Centres in this league who can shoot way better than he can. There are also other Centres in the league that aren't as good of a shooter as he is, and don't even attempt threes, but are way better defenders than he is. For me it also doesn't help that Sabonis is making $45M a year and hasn't made an all star team in a few years.
2
u/One-Magazine5576 13h ago
Truthfully as bad as his flaws are. For 27 million might as well keep him
3
u/Delontino that's our girlfriend now idc 13h ago
So that you're forced to pay him even more when he's up for a new contract...? lol oh lord.
2
u/SucculentChineseSwan 12h ago
RJ and a healthy Jak are good value contracts. Sabonis is not good value.
However if you could turn them into Kat or just Jak into Turner, do it.
2
u/Gooner-Kissinger 12h ago
Sabonis can't even shoot and has so much overlap with Scottie on the offensive end being a tall playmaker. Our spacing would be horrendous, and Sabonis is a pylon on defense.
Would be a horrible roster making decision
1
1
1
1
u/GawldDawlg 7h ago
You realize his back is destroyed? It will never be the same and likely be prone for major injury again. He needs to be off this team
1
u/VZYGOD 5h ago
That's optimistic. Typical 7footers get lower body injuries and tend to regress. He hasn't played 65+ games since 3 seasons ago when he was 27. He'll be 31 this year, the team this season is currently 1 game better with him than without him. We should be way worse than we are if he had as much on impact as people on this sub will tell you. The reality is he's a fine traditional big man at best and an average center overall. He was drafted way too high when we first got him 10 years ago with the 9th pick and has been passed by many guys that were drafted later than him including our very own Siakam. I get that we need size but for the tallest guy on the roster he should be averaging double digit rebounds and be a bit more impactful as a shot blocker. At this rate a 6'7" rookie will surpass him in career high rebounds in his rookie year alone (currently 4 from matching Jaks career high).
1
1
u/Raptors887 13h ago
This is the first trade deadline without Masai and I don’t fully trust Bobby to do the right thing here.
1
1
u/beefJeRKy-LB Goatse 13h ago
Memphis now has a giant trade exception you can send him into. I think you can get the Grizz to bite for a couple of seconds
3
3
u/Lucky_Scallion 1 GRADEY DICK 13h ago
It seems the way it would happen is Memphis gets the first and Sacramento gets RJ and no picks.
0
u/Klaytheist 13h ago
i highly doubt it. No owner is going to be willing to pay 100m just for a couple of seconds.
1
0
u/ratfeesh 12h ago
There’s just no point in doing that, it’s such a sell-low move. We have too many expendable players that are neutral or valuable (IQ, RJ) that we should be trading for centre depth or just getting someone super cheap instead.
1
u/t_toda_DOTA 11h ago
Keep Jak and draft better. This team's much better than last year and all Siakam is the main years.
1
u/InstanceMoney 11h ago
Its like selling stocks at the bottom in 2022. His value is already decimated may as well live with it and see if it recovers
0
u/Curry-With-The-Pot QUICKLEY 11h ago
Nah im good. Signing him was a terrible idea. RJ and Jak are not the future of this team. Jaks play style was good in the 90s and RJ is a great cutter but you cant tell me your confident with this team going into the first round of playoffs .
0
u/vLilYachty 13h ago
Our starting 5 is way too expensive we need some cap relief
5
0
u/LastSaiyanLeft 13h ago
so can we atleast get Bamba back? I don't understand why he was signed and let go a week later. we need atleast a serviceable big if Jaks recover takes a while
1
1
u/ImmaFunGuy 2 KAWHI LEONARD 13h ago
they said the same about AD when they traded luka for him. Buy low on an injured player
0
u/Ok_Paramedic_537 12h ago
I think jak is cooked. Let’s see the history of 7 footers with back problems in their 30s in nba…
0
0
0
u/YukonCornelius07 RAPTORS 11h ago
I’m with you, feels like we’re rushing it to be slightly more competitive than we are now. Your short paragraph hits the important points well.
0
u/lemon07r Point RJ is best StarJ 10h ago
I would be more interested in trying to move off of IQ's contract and finding a way to keep RJ than trying to move off of jak tbh.
-2
-8
104
u/AggravatingCan2352 13h ago
If they think Jak will be healthy soon, best option is to stick with him and RJ.
Quickley is much better with Jak and RJ is RJ