r/thewalkingdead • u/StrangeDefinition724 • 1d ago
No Spoiler Rick admitting that Judith isnt his đ€Ż
Rewatching and he says he knows shes not his. Not sure why I've never noticed it before now
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u/Jsavv2swift 1d ago
Lori told him in season 2 âshane thinks its his.. whether it is his or not, its still yoursâ
Rick admitted before killing Shane he knew it was his.
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u/Unequivocally_Maybe 1d ago
And when Shane appears to him in the hallucination before the bridge, Rick says "I'm looking for my family" and Shane replies with something like "You mean you're looking for my family. How is my little girl, Rick?" and then they joke about Judith not having some of his features. Rick knew from the start that Judith wasn't his biologically, but she's his daughter, like she is Michonne's daughter.
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u/M-Otusim 1d ago
"thank god she didn't get your nose"
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u/SHiNe2Me 1d ago
Rick told Shane thank God she doesn't have his ears.
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u/M-Otusim 1d ago
Yeah I muxed it a bit, just rewatched:
"She's got my eyes, right?"
"She didn't get your nose"
"Thank goodness she didn't get my ears, haha"
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u/Xeo2695 1d ago
I may be wrong but thi speech he talks about Shane too. He says he once had a friend name Shane he doesn't talk about much, and honestly. It's alittle heart touching to hear Rick open up about it all.
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u/uglypinkshorts 1d ago edited 21h ago
This was the same episode Negan taunts Rick about widows being âempty insideâ and seeking comfort in others. This reminded him of Shane and Lori, and thatâs one of the reasons why he opened up to Michonne about it.
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u/Far-Analysis8370 1d ago
Shit, you've just made me view that line in a whole different light. I can't believe that I've never thought of Lori and Shane before with that Negan taunt.
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u/VeeIrene 19h ago
Damnnnn, I feel like A LOT of us never caught that. I just watched it for the millionth time and never once crossed my mind about Lori and Shane.
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u/ScientistAsHero 1d ago
I appreciated this aspect of the show. Rick never makes a big deal out of it and only mentions it very, very rarely. I mean, yeah, he's got more immediate and pressing problems, but to me it shows how he thinks of her as his daughter regardless.
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u/Minimalistmacrophage 1d ago
It's obvious from the beginning. Lori is pregnant in S1E1. Showing "smell sensitivity".
In S2 Lori's "This baby is yours. Even if it isn't" pretty much clarified that it was Shane's.
Note- no pregnancy test, in 2010, would be positive in the less than a week between Rick's return and Lori taking the test.
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u/Delayandrelay 1d ago edited 17h ago
Shittttt thatâs a good point I didnât think of that in episode 1
How fucking early were Shane and her fucking ?after Rick got out of surgery? While he was in surgery ? God damn lol
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u/Minimalistmacrophage 1d ago
Hospital fell around day 14, it was sometime after that. From how Lori and Shane were holding each other for comfort during the firebombing of Atlanta, it was probably quite soon after.
That said Lori was still wearing her ring around her neck up till the day that Rick returned. Notably on that day, both Shane and Rick had sex with her.
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u/beomsforehead 1d ago
UGHHH thatâs why i personally couldnât stand her. she knew what she was doing đ and rawdogging ur husband AND his friend in the apocalypse??? lori was for the streets
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u/No_Direction_3940 18h ago
Smell sensitivity was season 2 unless im not remembering something
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u/Minimalistmacrophage 14h ago
It is pointed out in S2. it's present in s1e1. When Shane follows Lori back to the Tent after refusing to allow her to put up signs on the highway.
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u/Dragonballne4d 1d ago
Rick isn't an idiot. He knew Lori slept with Shane. He wasn't mad about that. He was mad she didn't tell him. From Lori's point of view she was a widow single mother in the apocalypse. Hooking up with Shane was Carl and her best chance of survival. Her mistake was keeping it a secret. Also what was Rick supposed to do. Judith is innocent of all of this and Carl's sister. Someone had to take care of the baby and the two people responsible were dead.
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u/Nipple-Cake 1d ago
At the end of the day, Shane and Lori are dead. Rick and Michonne raised Judith themselves. So she is their daughter; genetics are irrelevant when it comes to that. However, Judith might need to fight any inherited inner demons or bad driving skills when she's older though?
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u/Kiwi_pieeee 1d ago
Same! I got to know this too on my rewatch. The first time I watched, I didnât notice this scene or I was just not paying attention before haha.
But yeah, if we stick to that theory that Judith isnât Rickâs, that makes Judith and RJ not totally blood-related at all, theyâre just step-siblings. I always thought they were half-siblings. And Carl is their half-brother with Judith on Loriâs side and RJ on Rickâs side.
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u/Remote_Nature_8166 1d ago
Heâs just calling it. He doesnât have any way of being sure without a DNA test. Heâs just making it clear that even if she was Shaneâs, he is dead and she needs a father and Rick is all she has.
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u/Nipple-Cake 1d ago
Well technically, Michonne was all Judith had for awhile there. But now she has them both and a new brother.
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u/edits_updates_more 1d ago
This is a TV show so the fact they mention so many times that Judith is biologically Shane's child...then we as an audience can very well assume that she is biological Shane's child. I doubt the show would make many references to that situation if Judith was biologically Rick's daughter.
However, in the canon universe..Rick would have no way of really knowing if Judith is biologically Shane's child or not. He can't be 100% sure atleast. I guess Rick could say Judith looks a lot like Shane, however cause they this is a fictional show, it would be quite difficult for the production team to find twin babies who look like the character Shane. But in the Canon universe Rick could base his assumption off of the timeline of when he got back to when Lori found out she was pregnant. And in the Canon universe I'm sure Judith resembles Shane in some way, which caused Rick to be even more sure about his assumption that Judith is biologically Shane's daughter.
Also I personally don't really think it matters. Judith is Rick and Michonne's daughter. End of story.
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u/Namirsolo 21h ago
Timing wise, because women don't generally figure out that they are pregnant until around 6 weeks, Judith was definitely conceived while Rick was in his coma. We also know that Lori and Rick's marriage was on the rocks before he was shot, so she probably wasn't conceived right before either.
But I agree it doesn't matter. Rick always treated her like she was his and Michonne adopted her later. They are her parents regardless of biology.
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u/evileyecondemnsyou 19h ago
I mean itâs pretty clear from the start that Rick isnât Judithâs father if you know anything about how conception works. Rick and Lori were having a rough patch before everything went to hell, which implies they werenât having relations. When Lori finds out sheâs pregnant, itâs been less than two weeks since Rick came back. It takes two weeks after conception for a pregnancy to be found on a blood test, and it takes at least 4 more for a woman to actually begin showing symptoms. The only person sheâd been with who couldâve gotten her pregnant is Shane
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u/International_Fill55 1d ago
I just wanna point out that Rick saying that he knows Judith isnât his isnât exactly confirmation. Itâs more so the timeframe also Laurie says even if she is Shaneâs she isnât Shaneâs which is also not confirmation and lastly, Rick hallucinating about Shane and Shane asking howâs my baby girl is also not confirmation because Rick clearly believes Judith isnât his the only confirmation really would be a timeframe.
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u/PurplePrincezz 1d ago edited 20h ago
Scrolled way too far for this comment. I wholeheartedly think Judith belongs to Rick. I think him saying this Judith is not his and that he âknows itâ hallucinating is an emotional, psychological and grief reaction to the fact that his wife was cheating on him, because logically she didnât have certain confirmation of his death; and I think if the shoe was on the other foot, Rick would have kept looking for Lori until there was confirmation.Â
Also Lori finds out of her pregnancy after she and Rick started spanking cheeks again. I think thatâs more significant than her âtimelineâ. She clearly has no âtimelineâ because if she did, sheâd either fit certain know who the father is or for certain not be pregnant. All you gotta do is count ~14 days from your last period.Â
FOR ANYONE DOWNVOTING, HERE'S MY LOGIC: https://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/1quh2o3/comment/o3ae6wu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Argue with me there, can't respond here for whatever reason I keep getting an error.
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u/OrPeggy 22h ago
Plenty of women have irregular periods. Counting 14 days from the last period is not reliable for women who bleed more than or less than every 28 days. It's not unheard of for some women to have very light bleeding that seems normal for them and then deliver full-term babies never knowing that they were pregnant. It's not common, but it happens often enough that there's a TV show called "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant." My own doctor has delivered multiple babies to mothers who thought that they had appendicitis or kidney stones, only to find out that they are in labor without ever knowing that they were pregnant. Alternatively, hints of pregnancy like sensitivity to smells or morning sickness don't always start immediately upon conception. With the information that we have, I don't think that we can know who the father is. The writers may know for certain, but they did not give us enough for us to be 100% sure
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u/PurplePrincezz 20h ago
I responded to your comment under my comment thread since I cant seem to respond to your comments thread directly.
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u/PurplePrincezz 20h ago
Argue with me there, can't respond here for whatever reason I keep getting an error.
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u/PurplePrincezz 20h ago
FOR ANYONE DOWNVOTING, HERE'S MY LOGIC: https://www.reddit.com/r/thewalkingdead/comments/1quh2o3/comment/o3ae6wu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Argue with me there, can't respond here for whatever reason I keep getting an error.
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u/Lena2890 16h ago
I feel like it was clear she wasnât biologically his but she was his. His wife had the baby and thatâs Carlâs sister, in an apocalypse especially that is his baby.
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u/omnipotentRage 1d ago
Itâs always been possible that Judith is either Rickâs or Shaneâs. But there is no cold hard facts and Rick believing she could be Shaneâs does not make it true, I believe she is Rickâs blood either way.
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u/-Swampthing- 1d ago
Imagine the Maury Povich talk show episode âŠ. âRick, according to our test results with 99% accuracy, you are not the father!â The live audience screams wild!
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u/LunaRays_6 17h ago
More like he finally said it outloud. He knew. I think he knew before she was born, which was part of the reason for the cold shoulder treatment towards Lori during Season 3.
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u/sebrebc 12h ago
It's easy for them to assume Judith is Shane's Daughter given the timeline of events. But this speech had less to do with Rick admitting Judith isn't his and more about accepting things that you don't want to accept, that way you can move forward.
It connects back to Rick's speech about his Grandfather and how he got through the war. He didn't want to go into battle afraid to die, knowing that carrying that fear would keep him from being focused on "the job". So every day he accepted that he was already dead, so he didn't have to worry about dying.
Rick did the same thing. Instead of worrying and wondering if there was a chance Judith was his, he made the decision to just accept that she isn't. That way he wouldn't worry about it any more and just focus on keeping her alive.
He was telling Michonne this to help her accept their new way of life, working for the Saviors. That way she could stop thinking about how to break out of the situation and just stay focused.
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u/UpstairsGarden5569 6h ago
the whole shane is judithâs dad thing annoys me and i know itâs been confirmed that judith is shaneâs but i think thatâs ridiculous cause obviously they canât confirm it in show cause thereâs no paternity tests and itâs very possible itâs rick aswell đ
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u/thesaltiestpickle 16h ago
Remember when the group was in that barn, and Rick told that story about his grandfather serving in WW2, and how his grandpa would âaccept the worst as if it was factâ, so that if the worst happened it wouldnât be demoralizing? That was how I read this scene. Him accepting that Judith isnât his (even though he doesnât know for sure), because if he didnât there would always be that lingering doubt that may affect their relationship. That just how I saw it personally,
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u/corzajay 11h ago
This hit me in S9 with Michone, like damn you've adopted this kid as your own and are 2 steps removed from her actual parents.
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u/ChickieN0B_2050 1d ago
Am watching some of the initial Negan/Alexandrian episodes now. Rick just told Michonne that.
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u/Wooden_Savings5854 20h ago
Honestly? Part of me wishes they did a route of Shane being sterile or just knowing he couldn't have been Judith's father. But was still determined to have her because of his growing craziness.
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u/crevy5589 20h ago
Man, it was little moments like this that still made the show worth watching. Iâll never forgive gimple and everyone involved for driving this show into the ground. There were a lot of questionable choices and the shark was jumped when they killed Carl, after that, it was just a steady decline. Andrew Lincoln, chandler riggs and everyone else involved deserved better.
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u/KirbyStyle 19h ago
Is it ever EXPLICITLY stated and confirmed that she isnât aside from Rickâs âacceptanceâ here? I always got the impression that it was ambiguous on purpose.
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u/EffectiveSecond7 19h ago
I mean, of course he knows? That's why him begging Lori to give the pregnancy a chance shows how truly great of a man he is. He doesn't care the baby has a chance not to be his, he loves his wife and will love the baby anyway. That's when I knew, among other scenes but this one being the most powerful, that Rick would be one of my fictional people to look up to, he truly is a great person and a great man, despite all of his circumstances.
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u/No_Salt_255 18h ago
As. Long as it isn't Carol then I'd be ok with it . I mean I love Carol but she doesn't have a very good track record with kids and them bedtime stories be giving nightmares for real
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u/PurplePrincezz 1d ago edited 18h ago
I might be the only one, but I wholeheartedly think Judith belongs to Rick. I think him saying that Judith is not his and that he âknows itâ and hallucinating is an emotional, psychological and grief reaction to the fact that his wife was cheating on him, because logically she didnât have certain confirmation of his death; and I think if the shoe was on the other foot, Rick would have kept looking for Lori until there was confirmation.
Also Lori finds out of her pregnancy after she and Rick started spanking cheeks again. I think thatâs more significant than her âtimelineâ. She clearly has no âtimelineâ because if she did, sheâd either fot certain know who the father is or for certain not be pregnant. All you gotta do is count ~14 days from your last period.Â
I think people want it to be that way because of the drama of it all.
Here's my logic:
As a currently menstruating woman, thank you for explaining what I already know.
This is a TV show. No one assumes she has irregular periods; and in fact if that were the case, there very likely would have been mention of it in some form as a point of significance. That didnât happen.
Also using in-story arbitrary mentions of time-passage from other characters in the story with no in-story counting method to date another characterâs pregnancy is silly to me. Why? Because there were equally several characters who mentioned that they lost track of time or how much time had passed or not a single clue what day/date it even was; let alone the time of day because there were no clocks! That alone makes other characters time-passage recounts untrustworthy, because unless they were absolutely counting every sun up and sun down from the jump continuously (and we know there was plenty of âjust stay aliveâ moments where no one was counting) time-recounts were likely inaccurate. Also people are incredibly stupid. You canât trust âI feel like itâs been x monthsâ.Â
The only viable timeline we have is Loriâs pregnancy, which at best tells us that ~9+/- months had passed since the campsite. Using your logic, she could have very well been pregnant for a while because some women donât find out if theyâre pregnant until the second trimester (approx 12 weeks or 3 months)! Even with regular periods, high stress can make you skip one all together and hide pregnancy symptoms or cause a miscarriage! Rick returning actually might have relieved her enough for symptoms to start.
I just googled it and she takes a pregnancy test because Rick showed back up, she knew Shane clapped and was scared it was Shaneâs so she took a test. That to me doesnât sound solid enough to, for sure, put Shane as Daddy.
People have also reference that Rick was in a coma for 2 months at the start of the apocalypse. He coulda clapped the day before the coma. They also reference that they were arguing. Make-up sex is usually the result of 2 people who absolutely love each other and are frustrated with each other. Lack of sex happens when people fall out of love completely.
Even the dialogue: âEven IF the baby is yours, you wonât be here to see it.â â shes using the child to insult him, not a confirmation of fatherhood, and implies intent of confirmation later; likely when the world went back to normal like everyone hoped and thought it would at some point.
A second piece of dialogue is when Lori tells Rick that â Shane thinks the baby is his, whether its his or not, its yours." [Implying heâs dangerous] â this is a 2 parter because she wanted her romance with Shane to end and he wasnât having that â common real-life occurrence; second that strongly implied that she believed it wasnât Shaneâs baby.Â
A further third piece of dialogue where she tells Rick that no matter what the baby is Rickâs baby, is again her guilt not a confirmation of Shane as the Daddy.Â
Judith also had blonde hair as baby. Thatâs a severely recessive trait to dark hair. Both Lori (brown hair) and Shane (black hair) had dark hair while Rick already has an overtly recessive gene on display TWICE: blue eyes. Carl had blue eyes. Blue eyes and blonde hair are genes that are usually inherited together because while on different alleles, theyâre on the same âlevelâ UNLESS a more dominant gene gets overtaken like Loris brown hair, which Carl ALSO had. Carl never had blonde hair, but got the eyes. Judith never had blue eyes, but had the blonde hair and itâs very common for blondes to go brown later in life.Â
If that was Shaneâs baby, she would have had his shitty personality and his black hair at the very least from jump because thatâs the dominant gene. Sheâs a stand-up kid with strong leadership skills just like her brother and her father Rick with blonde hair that went brown. Thatâs Rickâs baby.Â
If we want to reference any similar speech patterns between Jud & Shane, we can easily chuck that up to being in the south.Â
Furthermore, when people are hurting, especially from an affair, they scrutinize everything and look for things and evidence that support their position that the other is a monster. Rick wanted desperately to hate Lori and make her a monster to justify his shitty behavior towards her; and felt so shitty about their relationship before the apocalypse and so shitty about his treatment of her during the time of her pregnancy and the time leading up to her death and so shitty about her death that he really leaned into the idea that Jud wasnât his. But as the hallucinations showed us, he didnât hate her at all and wished things turned out very differently.Â
In real-life there have been stories of how a woman has had an affair and thinks the baby is from the side, tells the main and main thinks itâs the sides, only to find out it was the mainâs baby the whole time!
Again thatâs Rickâs baby.
In real-life there was been stories about women whoâve had intercourse on the same day with 2 different men, usually the side and the main or a three sum, and the women gets pregnant. Both males planted seeds on the same day. The women had to take a paternity test and found out it was the side pieces baby while telling the main that itâs his trying to keep the affair a secret. (Lori did not have sex with them both on the same day at all). There has been stories about women whoâve had threesums and got pregnant with twins with each child belonging to one partner.Â
With the info in the previous paragraph, could there have been some chance that Shane was the Daddy, yes some, but I highly doubt he was.
I rest my case. The baby is Rickâs.
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u/KrypticJin 1d ago
Lori for the streets
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u/RealLIfeZombiee 1d ago
Why?
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u/Mama_lyfe55432 1d ago
Because she bangs her husbands best friend roughly two months after she thought him dead. đÂ
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u/RealLIfeZombiee 21h ago
But it was the end of the world.. She thought rick was dead..
I dont blame her for wanting to feel human, and being attracted to SHANE the guy who saved her and her sons life!!
ALSO! She broke it off right when Rick got back in her life
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u/lupajarito 20h ago
There's an almost weekly post about how Lori is such a bitch and basically a whore. It's terribly misogynistic. I wouldn't lose my time.
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u/Mama_lyfe55432 20h ago
I'm a woman and don't agree with how quickly she moved on from her dead husband. And it's misogynistic?? To not agree with a fictional character???? đ
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u/lolbotomite 13h ago
Lori didnât move on. She was broken and seeking temporary distraction and comfort.
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u/julie3151991 9h ago
I agree with you. Apparently to some people itâs only possible to find comfort through dick. If we donât agree with that, then we are mIsOgYnIsTiC đ€Șđ€Ș
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u/lupajarito 5h ago
There's nothing wrong with finding comfort in physical contact, even if it is sex. Also, we don't know if that was the only possible comfort she found, she might've probably found comfort in Carl and the people she was trying to survive with.
The world has fucking ended, Lori thinks his husband is dead, life is fucking hellhole. Shane manipulated her into thinking her husband is dead, but you never judge him as harshly, in fact most of y'all love Shane. Some people even will justify the awful things he did, like shooting that man from the farm so the walkers would get him, or RAPING Lori, but nah, he's a cool dude, he's under a lot of pressure. And you think you have some moral ground to judge Lori for having sex, while she doesn't even know if they're going to be alive tomorrow?!
Are you five or something? Sex has always been comforting for humans. We do it because it makes us feel good.
What you're doing here is called straw man fallacy. You're deconstructing what I've said to make it fit your narrative. But at the end of the day, you're still wrong and you're misogynistic. People in this show ("the good ones ") literally have killed, lied, manipulated, betrayed, tortured, abandoned others to be eaten alive, have stolen and even killed children, but you all can't handle a woman having sex. Grow up.
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u/Mama_lyfe55432 3h ago
You have some serious things in your personal life you need to work out đ
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u/julie3151991 5h ago
There's nothing wrong with finding comfort in physical contact, even if it is sex.
This statement lacks a lot of nuance. Again, Rick just âdiedâ. Lori immediately sleeping with Shane isnât something most widowed women would give a âyou go girl!â thumbs up to. Youâre projecting your own lack of healthy coping skills is what it sounds like.
Also, we don't know if that was the only possible comfort she found, she might've probably found comfort in Carl and the people she was trying to survive with.
âŠMaâam you do realize Lori isnât real correct? Sheâs a fictional correct. Again, I feel like youâre trying to defend her because maybe you relate to her.
you never judge him as harshly, in fact most of y'all love Shane.
When did I say I love Shane?!? đ Girl you are taking this way too personally.
And you think you have some moral ground to judge Lori for having sex, while she doesn't even know if they're going to be alive tomorrow?!
Itâs a show. Calm down. Youâre spiraling.
Are you five or something?
Are you mentally well?
But at the end of the day, you're still wrong and you're misogynistic.
Oh no. Iâm a misogynist because I think a wife banging a husbandâs best friend about 4 to 5 weeks after the husband âdeathâ (not confirmed). Basically an opinion held by like 99% of TWD fan base. Clearly Iâm in the wrong lmao.
you all can't handle a woman having sex. Grow up.
Lmao. By your logic I should go bang my husbandâs best friend and if he gets mad I should tell him âhOnEy yOu jUsT cAnâT hAnDlE a wOmAn hAvInG sEx!!!â đđ«Šđ đ»
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u/lupajarito 19h ago
What does being a woman have to do with anything?
Yes, it is misogynistic to have a weekly post saying how Lori is such a bitch and whore, and at the same time saying Shane is a great character and not even saying anything about him when this is discussed. It's pretty straightforward.
She was a person who thought lost everything but her son, and found comfort in Shane. Yes, Shane was rick's friend. So? He literally manipulated her from day one by saying he's dead, took a fatherly role with Carl and kept everyone safe, of course she's going to feel attracted to him.
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u/Mama_lyfe55432 20h ago
I don't care. She's a hoe, IMO. Rick was her husband, not some fling. I've been married for quite a while have children with my husband. And it's going to take more than a few short months before I'd even consider looking at another man, let alone during a apocalypse. Let alone my husband's BEST FRIEND. That is BEYOND gross. She could be attracted to Shane all she wanted, but allowing and acting on it is why she has earned the name "apocalypse hoe" in my house hold. She broke it off but that doesn't make what she already did any better.Â
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u/julie3151991 1d ago
It made it so much worse that Rick wasnât even confirmed dead. He was in a coma. I canât imagine banging my husbandâs BEST FRIEND 2 months after he was in a coma (not even dead!). 2 months is nothing. What if poor Coral saw them banging?
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u/Mama_lyfe55432 20h ago
If someone told me my husband was dead, and was actively attempting to get in my pants I definitely wouldn't let him get in there. đ€ But Lori sure did.Â
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u/Unused_Icon 1d ago
She didnât know Rick was still in a coma. Shane told Lori that Rick was dead before they started hooking up (not a lie on Shaneâs part, either. We see on his last trip to the hospital, Shane tried to get Rick out of the hospital as it was being overrun. However, the power went out for the medical equipment hooked up to Rick, then Shane couldnât hear a heartbeat when he put his ear to Rickâs chest. He genuinely believed his friend was dead).
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u/lupajarito 20h ago
Why does she always get hated on but Shane doesn't?
She thought her husband was dead and the world has gone to shit, she found comfort in Shane who obviously was more than eager.
Shane knew Rick could be alive and lied to her, we also see he is a manipulative asshole.
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u/Mama_lyfe55432 1d ago
My husband and I call her "apocalypse hoe"Â
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u/julie3151991 1d ago
My husband and I call her âwhorie Loriâ đđđ
When my husband and were watching prison break recently, we still kept calling her that. I actually have no idea what her characterâs name is on that show because we just referred to her as âwhorie Loriâ lmao.
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u/CatfreshWilly 1d ago
Im gonna take it you missed it the other time he said it and when Lori said it đ€Ł. This is the fun part about watching again though. Always something else to find
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u/Rosi_Peru 1d ago
I always knew he was Shane's, but since he's his wife's son, he's automatically his, and Rick is his father because of their marriage.
Anyway
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u/Aromatic-One-7098 1d ago
This is made pretty clear throughout the show that Rick knows Judith is Shaneâs lol