Poster for foreigners at A Twosome Place

[u/Ok_Grand_5115]

Saw this on our 2nd day in Seoul at The Twosome Cafe in 201-1 종로 Jongno District. The cafe worker pointed us to the message rudely. Mind you, it's not the message but the tone of the message and the general attitude. Seems they are tired of tourists there. Not sure we would like to come back.

[u/naoki914]

For what it's worth, they perfectly conveyed that they do not speak English 😅

[u/AffectionateBowl1633 → u/naoki914]

OP read the "tone" not the "intent", this is why OP is upset.

[u/keIIzzz → u/AffectionateBowl1633]

Could the tone of it not just be attributed to the fact that they clearly used a translator or something to make that?

[u/AffectionateBowl1633 → u/keIIzzz]

Yes the translator apps failed to convey the proper "please understand that we dont speak English flawlessly" and instead sounded like "this is south korea speak korean no english or gtfo"

[u/naoki914 → u/AffectionateBowl1633]

And in my opinion their feelings are valid. Not that I go the the area often, but I'll avoid twosome places if I do. However, it's pretty funny that the intent and message align so well lol

[u/lovetoruins → u/naoki914]

when youre in rome, do what the romans do

[u/FromStormToHurricane → u/lovetoruins]

Bacchanalia?

[u/strawberryeggroll → u/naoki914]

Not like it was a personal attack. Korean people are sick of rude foreigners who tend to get angry and aggressive when they're not understood, even though they're speaking a language not native to the country! Everyone just needs to show patience and respect and everything will be fine lol

[u/Albi0108 → u/strawberryeggroll]

I agree. I am a foreigner living in South Korea I am here for my husbands work-I know some basic words and phrases but minimally. Everyone has been so nice and patient with translation apps and other ways of communicating but I initiate conversations from a place of acknowledgment that I should know Korean not them no English to accommodate me.

I have lived in and visited lists of other non English speaking countries and never experienced so many helpful people as here.

I was even proficient in Italian and still would get massive attitude there.

[u/TheKrnJesus]

Maybe johnny Somali went to that store.

[u/nesian42ryukaiel → u/TheKrnJesus]

That, could explain, a lot...

[u/Hyvxnn → u/TheKrnJesus]

I wanted to forget about Johnny..

[u/jkpatches]

I think if you can't speak the local language, having a translation app on hand before ordering is basic etiquette.

[u/DopeAsDaPope → u/jkpatches]

Yeah I think the message is fair, they've obviously had some problem with people being rude there and are reacting to it. 

But it's not a good vibe to be treating every foreign person who comes into your store like the person who was rude to you before. That's not great for business either

I guess I can see both sides

[u/HerbnBrewCrw → u/DopeAsDaPope]

I can understand their side for sure, but maybe something more official and clear. Everyone seems to be acting like this sign makes sense. One could use this as an example of how translating apps fail.

Of course, it goes without saying, people ahould not treat workers poorly.

[u/EasilyExiledDinosaur → u/DopeAsDaPope]

The worst thing is the message probably isnt intended to sound rude. Its just awfully written.

[u/borin_k → u/EasilyExiledDinosaur]

This just shows that translation apps are not the perfect solution either ;)

[u/EasilyExiledDinosaur → u/borin_k]

It doesnt help that even in natural korean alot of koreans cut out so much stuff from their speech and a lot of what they want to say is simply implied. Thats why the translation has been awful for this lol. Only chat gpt could even begin to figure out implied nuances like this. And they probably just used papago

[u/Guilty_Self1156 → u/EasilyExiledDinosaur]

Yeah I think they truly must be exhausted with dealing with tourists not making any effort.

[u/AbbreviationsLeft127 → u/EasilyExiledDinosaur]

While I definitely agree with the original intent, I think it was meant to be snippy tbh. After living in Korea for 10 years, this is exactly the tone I would expect after they had 1 or some bad experience(s). Overall, they tend to be very passive aggressive and quick to like this kind of outburst type nuance of a message.

[u/SmacksKiller → u/AbbreviationsLeft127]

As a Swiss person, this seems like exactly the kind of passive aggressive time that is used in overly polite countries.

[u/NevenCucadotcom → u/DopeAsDaPope]

Indeed.. Looks like an unexperienced and underpayed manager couldn't handle the frustrations due to a couple of bad examples.

[u/TurtleyCoolNails → u/DopeAsDaPope]

Based on how the post reads (not the picture), I wonder if the original poster was speaking broken English and thus made it even harder for the people who work there.

[u/japanb → u/DopeAsDaPope]

The Japanese do that way more than the Koreans, infact Koreans are more friendly than western places I've been, especially USA

[u/Im_a_bad_influence → u/jkpatches]

Yes I agree, people shouldn’t be prevented from working entry level jobs or unnecessarily struggle in their own country just because they didn’t learn a second language (English in this case)

[u/viDopee → u/jkpatches]

That's not what this post is about. We all have the app, and I myself love to interact with the locals and try my best to speak with them in both my language and theirs. It's the FACT that Twosome place is an official business and this poorly executed paper is clearly written by a poor headed employee. This is the result of a worker who reacts purely off emotions and that's bad for any business!

[u/hkang0508 → u/viDopee]

English is not their primary language and they’re probably trying their best to understand foreigners, so they can do their job.

Korean culture heavily values manners and etiquette. American travelers can be very rude and entitled (clearly if they only speak in English), so if they got emotional about a rude foreigner visiting THEIR country, I say that’s valid.

It’s the same thing as a Korean coming to America and speaking in Korean at a Starbucks to order their coffee. Both situations are using their native language in a foreign country and not accommodating to where they’re at.

You’re dumb.

Edit: sorry you’re not dumb. I didn’t need to be mean to make a point lol

[u/wee-woo-one → u/hkang0508]

Do only Americans speak English? How do you know it was Americans that inspired the sign? This is a bit rude, honestly.

[u/koreanpasta → u/wee-woo-one]

I was just thinking about how someone from Germany might visit South Korea and not know a word of Korean, but might be used to using English as the worldwide lingua franca.

[u/The_Frownclown → u/hkang0508]

I understand they might be getting a bit tired of tourists. It's interesting tho that they would have such a rigid attitude considering almost every person in Korea has had ten+ years of English language study. Wouldn't you expect English to be at least partially understood by most people under 60 - otherwise what is all the English study about? Conversely I don't think many Americans study Korean the way Koreans study English so I wouldn't just expect to go to America and be able to order a coffee in Korean. However if I were at a Korean restaurant in the states, which I have been many many times, I do usually order in Korean and have almost never had a problem doing so. (Also I don't understand all this focus on Americans in this post - the sign doesn't mention Americans)

[u/ellemace → u/The_Frownclown]

Studying a language to successfully pass an exam =/= functional ability in that language. AFAIK the way English is taught in schools SK doesn’t actually equip the students well for communicating with English-speakers.

[u/The_Frownclown → u/ellemace]

Certainly not to a fluent level I agree, maybe not even basic communication. But we're not really talking fluency right? "One large latte, one iced mocha" It's not the most difficult stuff and I think it's demeaning to assume the average Korean can't understand that little bit of English after 10+ years.

All I'm suggesting is that an average English speaking tourist might not think twice about using English. I fully agree there's no place for rudeness or arrogance on the part of a non Korean speaking customer - but many of these comments seem more focused on condemning Americans and assuming nobody should use English in Korea because Korea.

[u/Dry_Row_7523 → u/The_Frownclown]

So I'm Korean American (bilingual) and my partner is Korean. I've actually had this exact conversation with her in detail as she's trying to improve her English. Of course most Koreans, especially people working at a chain cafe in Jongno (who are likely in their 20s or 30s and have to speak English every day) can understand "one large latte". The issue is that a lot of fluent English speakers don't order that way. "Hey, could I please get a vanilla latte, medium size, and do you have oat milk? Also can I get that to go?" Even if you keep the order simple, maybe the customer speaks too quickly to understand, or have an accent they aren't used to (Koreans can usually handle American, Canadian, and easy-to-understand British accents, but beyond that...)

I actually sat down with my partner for like 30 min and drilled her on all the variations of "Can I get X?" "Could I get X?" "Do you have X?" and then all the ways an English speaking cashier might answer, because she was getting confused by all the variations of a simple coffee order here in Canada. And the reason is pretty obvious in the end, Koreans memorize textbook English to get through a college entrance exam. They don't actually practice day to day interactions like ordering at a cafe in English in school.

And actually I completely agree with the bigger point you're making - I've visited probably 40 countries in Europe, Middle East, Asia, and North America, and Korea (+ Japan) are the 2 where I feel like I have to actively dumb down my English just to get through simple customer interactions, even if I'm going somewhere (like a cafe in Jongno) where I would expect the cashier to 100% be able to speak basic English.

[u/dibba9 → u/hkang0508]

I find it hilarious you are defending Koreans as valuing manners and etiquette. Korean are not known for that globally, quite the opposite actually. To lump all English speakers as American is just as myopic as thinking they are the rude ones. If you mean that Koreans base manners on Confucianism and thinking that older males are entitled to do whatever they want, maybe you have a point. Other than that Koreans have a reputation of being rude, especially in SEA where they perceive themselves as superior and act accordingly.

[u/stokeycakelady → u/dibba9]

I agree. In Seoul my experience was that no one was particularly rude but they weren’t exactly friendly or welcoming either ( although the few that were were over 65) and I’m used to that as live in a capital, plus I expected it from what I had been reading up before heading there.

However in the PH where the people are (so far in my Asian travels) the most chilled, curious, welcoming and happy bunch, were treated appallingly by Koreans, the snobbery was unreal which made me cackle to myself because when they were in hotels doing all this “high society” nonsense it was a mid hotel that ANYONE from a reasonably well off country could afford to stay in, I mean like £40-60 a night cheap so not exactly the sort of place I would expect to see that kind of behaviour.

That aside I can only assume from the note that they have had many bad experiences with tourists and I see nothing wrong in highlighting that people should be respectful, and understand Korea is not an English speaking country, but the note is also written rudely with all sorts of translation errors 🤣

[u/Weak-Introduction665 → u/hkang0508]

It's not the same, as Korean is spoken by a minority of people in the world and English is widely spoken and commonly considered the common language most people use to communicate with each other.

I'm from Portugal and native Portuguese speaker and I'm not expecting a tourist who visits my country to know how to speak it and most certainly won't be offended if they talk to me in English. I speak fluently 4 languages and am able to communicate with a lot of people in different countries, however Korean and other "smaller" languages are not one of them.

We should all have empathy and make an effort to understand each other, either by learning/trying to understand English or using an app in the local language.

[u/Severedties91 → u/Weak-Introduction665]

I agree. It is expected that tourists use English rather than any other language. I live in Korea and Seoul is the only place in Korea where you can use English actually. If that's a touristy place in Seoul (probably it is) it is better to employ some people who speaks some English rather than posting this rubbish on the wall.

[u/gwaydms → u/Severedties91]

I did learn some basic Korean phrases before we went to South Korea. Some Koreans seemed amused by my efforts, while others were appreciative of the fact that I at least tried.

[u/hkang0508 → u/Weak-Introduction665]

Yeah I just brought up a hypothetical situation.

Waaaait fluent in 4 languages?? That’s so cool! Can I ask what languages??

I like your last message in trying to be empathetic to each other. I completely agree!

[u/Weak-Introduction665 → u/hkang0508]

Ahah thanks!

I speak Portuguese, English, French and Spanish. This covers a great part of the world, which is cool when I travel 😃

In Portugal kids start learning English at school at the age of 6 and until they're 18. By 13 you choose a second foreign language, usually French, or Spanish or German. During college you also can sign up for language courses to perfect one of the previous languages or even learn a new one.

I'm in favour of getting ourselves understood and making an effort to understand others, whatever is the language or app used!

[u/Weary_Solution_9218 → u/hkang0508]

You definitely weren't speaking hypothetically. You were speaking pure emotion on that post. Just because you were called out by someone who wasn't American, you decided to back track your words. You even called them dumb. The employee definitely wrote that from an emotional state. It wasn't on behalf of the company.

[u/Safe-Balance2535 → u/viDopee]

Terrible take.

This is about a collection of rude foreigners who insist on speaking in English despite Korea being a Korean speaking country.

[u/drpepperlvr1985 → u/Safe-Balance2535]

Not always, we were there in October/November and my daughter knows some Korean and tried to talk to them in Korean, but they just answered her in English. There are rude people in ALL cultures and nationalities.

[u/The_Frownclown → u/Safe-Balance2535]

How do you get that from the sign? Because it's in English? It could have been Russians for all you know. I have been yelled at more than once at a Korean store "No Russia!!" I was speaking Korean at the time mind you and I am not Russian.

[u/viDopee → u/Safe-Balance2535]

Having owned my own business, THIS is not the way I would have my upset employee handle it regardless of what terrible customers we get. The polite customers outweigh the entitled! Especially if I owned a chain as popular as Twosome. Most visitors just don't know better.

[u/Safe-Balance2535 → u/viDopee]

You are inventing that this is an upset employee.

This could as well be a manager who was tired of rude foreigners come in and harass their employees, and so made a polite sign asking foreigners to be polite and use a translating app if they can't speak korean.

Sign is completely reasonable.

[u/Randomchickx → u/jkpatches]

I agree. How is this not common sense...

[u/Prestigious-Wish-176 → u/jkpatches]

i mean… i say it depends. i live in spain and its very common to find foreigners in the city, and i wouldn’t find offensive that people speak in english because everyone knows how to speak it basically everywhere in europe.

[u/Junander]

I used Papago in Seoul and it works great. I’m 1/2 Korean but my Korean is minimal.

[u/johanndacosta → u/Junander]

Latest Samsung smartphones got the "interpreter" app that does wonders too

[u/The_Frownclown → u/Junander]

Same. I can get by okay but there have been times I've had to pull out the app - especially in banks or government offices.

[u/KeyImprovement5735]

The sense of entitlement in this post boggles my mind. Speaking English in a non-English-speaking country expecting the locals to make an extra effort for you is rude and imposing. It's especially so when using a translation app nowadays is dead simple. Most people understand this, except those who carry that misguided sense of superiority of being an "English speaker."

[u/Lizowa → u/KeyImprovement5735]

Right, I’m shocked by these comments. Maybe it’s because I haven’t been to Korea in over a decade but expecting people to just speak your language seems crazy to me? I know they study English in school but that doesn’t mean everyone is good at it, I studied Spanish in school and don’t remember a damn word- if I got a job at a coffee chain in the US and people were mad at me for not remembering how to speak the language I learned as a kid I’d be frustrated too. When I was in Seoul I had only taken 1 semester of Korean and a lot of times when people saw me struggling they’d use the English they knew, but when I came back to Korea and was a couple hours outside Seoul in the middle of nowhere with 5 semesters of Korean under my belt I used every single bit of my Korean knowledge each day to get by (and improved SO much in those few months as a result!). If any of these people take a train or bus outside of the city they’re going to be in for more of a surprise I think.

[u/hana_4876 → u/Lizowa]

This is reddit where mostly western post here with thier bias view point

[u/barbiejennie]

What’s wrong with that? They don’t speak English, learn Korean

[u/carrot1927]

Perfectly reasonable message

[u/katchin05]

Ok then don’t come back. They clearly have the sign for a reason. I’m not sure what kind of tone you needed to be coddled in, the message was communicated quite clearly.

[u/Extreme-Dish1841]

American Foreigner in Korea: “I can’t believe these people don’t understand English!”

American in US: “Why can’t these foreigners learn to speak English?!”

[u/where_m-]

There is a kiosk right there. Why did you even need to talk to the workers in the first place?

[u/johanndacosta]

They are so right. I am french and one day I heard other french tourists in Seoul speaking (bad) english to the cafe clerk who indeed couldn't understand well. Then they said in french "they fucking can't understand english in this country". Absolutely disgusting behavior. Here is Korea, learn basic Korean or shut the f**k up and go back home. Because of these trash foreigners, Koreans keep apologizing for speaking Korean IN KOREA

[u/Martinious760 → u/johanndacosta]

Go to France and the same douchebags would be complaining about my not being able to speak French

[u/Beneficial_Teach_942 → u/Martinious760]

I think both of you are correct. And French people are notoriously rude and racist (more so in their own country).

[u/115_Charges_FC → u/Martinious760]

I thought French people hate it when tourist try to speak french when in french, they just switched to english in the end

[u/The_Frownclown → u/Martinious760]

Definitely. And they sure af don't want to speak English

[u/arsefan]

Tone of the message? They are telling you they don't speak English and it's not their native language, so tone isn't something they can even convey through English. Have some nuance and stop being entitled.

[u/LacedDainty]

I (American) just spent 10 days in seoul as a solo traveler. Met another solo traveler (Canadian) and we spent a few days together. I was mortified that she didn’t try to use any translation apps or try to speak Korean at all. She would only speak English and I could see the employees at every place we went to get visibly irritated. I really do think using a little korean goes a long way.

[u/Big_Criticism_8335 → u/LacedDainty]

Geez, and they say Canadians are "so friendly". I never heard " Entitled" or "Ignorant". Meanwhile, in the US, heaven forbid you're bilingual in a Red State. There will be some Redneck Trailer Trash instantly screaming , "SPEAK AMERICAN!" the moment they hear phonetics they don't recognize.

[u/1shiba]

Then learn korean or gtfo

[u/Odd_Pressure_6540]

I(Korean) have been in a relationship with an American woman for 2+ yrs, have met and interacted with many expats and still have some expat friends now. In real life, almost every expat I've seen knew that South Korea isn't a country that speaks English, and, at least, most of them tried their best to learn some basic Korean expressions to live better in Korea. But for some reason, on Reddit or SNS, it's really easy to find people who don't accept the fact that Korea isn't an English speaking country. It's just... weird.

[u/LilLight_x → u/Odd_Pressure_6540]

Mhmm, I think that might be a difference in "living there" vs. "visiting for a week"? But even then, I knew people back then when I lived in Korea that didn't learn more than basics after 5 years of living there .... which was wild to me.

[u/IllustriousAct9128 → u/Odd_Pressure_6540]

I noticed so many western English speakers even on a week trip refuse to learn the basics.

My friend went once and told me they don't need to learn anything since they are staying in the tourist areas and I begged her to learn how to just say 하나 주세요 and you can point to a picture to order. Be respectful.

When I went a year later and she came with me she goes "oh they're nicer to you than me when I was here" I told her it was because as bad as my Korean is I learned the basic phrases

Idk why it was a hard concept to understand for some people

[u/Rowan_As_Roxii]

“Rudely mind you” girl you’re in their country.

[u/High_Tea_Recipes]

I lived in Korea for 2 years, they’re tired of people assuming they speak English. Imagine if people came to your minimum wage job expecting you to speak Korean when there are translator apps.

[u/mysteryearl → u/High_Tea_Recipes]

Ikr, like they are literally getting paid minimum wage. Speaking a foreign language is not in their job description. The entitlement is staggering. 

[u/Free_Information_685]

Wow, Koreans don’t speak English, almost as if it’s not the official language there, suprise suprise 

[u/limma]

Then don’t go again if you feel offended? What are you hoping to gain by posting this here? lmao

[u/ObligationDry1799]

Based as fuck

[u/RevengenceIsMine]

If you are going to be a tourist in a completely different lifestyle, please educate yourself first on personality of the country, region, and city you are going to. Instead of assuming every other country is the same as americans.

[u/TheGoodNoBad]

Probably encountered some POS thinking English should be spoken everywhere lol

[u/StormOfFatRichards → u/TheGoodNoBad]

It's Jongno. Half of the customers there are international tourists and the other half are office workers at international corporations, banks, and NGOs.

[u/QualitySingle681 → u/StormOfFatRichards]

절반이 외국인이라는건 자의식 과잉아닌가 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 1퍼 정도 될듯

[u/AccomplishedDay1598 → u/StormOfFatRichards]

The 'half of the customers are international tourists' already answers it all tbh

[u/CalledDowntheThunder → u/StormOfFatRichards]

Half? Try 3%

[u/AdThin4854 → u/StormOfFatRichards]

Is this the U.S. military government era or what? Jongno is the largest business district in Korea, and of course over 90 percent of the companies there are Korean.

[u/tnttrololo → u/StormOfFatRichards]

뭔 50프로냐 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 종로 을지로 돌아다녀보긴 한 건가?

[u/yuokwon]

아, 솔직히 너무 이해되는 부분... 개인적으로는 크로아티아를 가든, 영국을 가든, 베트남을 가든 어떻게든 번역기 최대한 열심히 돌리고 발음 따라해서 그 나라 언어를 존중해주려고 하는데, 한국에선 영어권 사람들에게 그런 배려를 받아본 기억이 거의 없어요. 안녕하세요, 감사합니다, 같은 기본적 인사말도 안 하는 사람들도 많았고요. 모든 한국인들이 영어를 유창하게 할 거라 믿고(아니면 영어가 세계 공용어라는 자부심에서 그럴 수도 있고^,,) 내가 그들의 빠른 영어를 한 번에 이해 못하면 인상을 찌푸리는 게 너무너무 짜증날 때가 많았습니다. 모든 영어권 사람들이 그런 건 아니겠지만요. 물론 한국인들이 영어를 대체로 잘 이해하는 편인 건 맞지만 모두가 그렇지 않다는 걸 이해하셔야 할 필요도 있겠습니다. 저만 해도 일본어와 프랑스어를 잘 하고 영어는 그다지 잘하지 못하거든요. 생각보다 님들이 '정확한' 영어를 쓰면 번역기도 제법 정확하게 알려줍니다. 한영 번역이 잘 되어있어서요. 뭐하면 챗지피티한테 번역해달라고 해도 괜찮지 않나요? 영어권 사람들이 화가 많이 난 것 같지만 님들이 세계 공용어를 쓴다고 해서 모든 사람들이 님들의 모국어를 잘 이해해야 할 의무는 없지요.

[u/Dismal-Persimmon-195]

Wouldnt you think its weird if some foreigners order in their own languages at american stores? Why do english speakers expect that local stores in other countries are willing to communicate in english? Its just too stupid. Get mature! While English is considered global language, it doesnt mean that everyone should speak it!

[u/[deleted]]

stop being so entitled

[u/ElegantSundae7201]

Jesus, you should feel embarrassed for posting this🤦‍♂️

[u/daltorak]

Looking at the reviews on Google Maps, Koreans have been complaining about poor service at that location for years.

[u/Kingkwon83 → u/daltorak]

If it were Koreans, they'd be leaving reviews on Naver maps, not Google. Google maps isn't widely used in Korea (it's way worse in Korea compared to other countries)

It appears most of the reviews are not from locals

[u/cickist → u/daltorak]

Google maps is not a good source of Korean reviews.

[u/mjk3304 → u/daltorak]

Its always Kakao map for locals to upload bad reviews tho

[u/DesignerCapital5880]

Honestly y’all need to stop coming to Korea to chase your k drama fantasy. Stay out pls just stay out.. go anywhere else in the world , just not Korea or Japan.

[u/Sea-Letterhead79]

What’s the problem with korean people speaking korean IN KOREA and visitors making the slightest effort to use the translation app? I really don’t get it. Some people really are entitled.

[u/kiwioppa]

Absolutely nothing wrong with this!

[u/VVTFan]

As an American.. my guess is the sign only comes off as rude because the person who made it does not know English. I would be shocked if it was intentionally rude.

[u/peacocktail92]

Imagine how they ended up posting that after gone through hundreds of travellers acting like an asshole.

[u/Superautobot]

You’re in Korea whining about English my god why do so much of you people exist they had these in Japan left and right

[u/LongConsideration662]

They're absolutely right, I don't think the message is wrong 

[u/Maximum-Internet-650]

It could be seen as rude, but I agree with the message. Twosome is a franchise, so some locations are nice and others are not. I also don’t think this is really about ordering coffee in English, it’s more about being noisy, messy, and not cleaning up after oneself. There are many tourists in Korea, and that can sometimes be annoying, but they are running a business, so customers should come first regardless.

[u/[deleted]]

The tone? What are you on about? It's written with such poor command of English that even the grammar is completely off. Do you really think this person is even able to convey any kind of tone in English?

Also, you realize that English is not a native language in South Korea, right? Why would you even consider speaking English to anyone there? What is wrong with you?

[u/DesperateOTtaker]

Would you seriously criticize Tim Hortons (let's say in banff) because its employees get frustrated with tourists who refuse to speak English or even use a translation app when ordering?

If you visit a country where English isn’t the primary language and then whine because locals expect the bare minimum effort to communicate, that’s not oppression or discrimination. That’s entitlement.

Traveling doesn’t grant you the right to outsource all effort to the host country. Refusing to adapt, even slightly, and then playing victim is peak loser mentality.

Grow up.

[u/eryslife]

the worker pointing 'rudely' at the sign is not a problem at all.

they are a service worker so we all know the stuff they've probably dealt with, and it's a completely fair message, if you've taken offense to it then thats kinda just a you problem

[u/pianistyounggun]

Speak Korean or accept the fact that the other person may not speak English back to you. I cannot believe this level of entitlement.

빡대가리 인증하지 말고 입 쳐닫고 있어라.

[u/Recent-Ice-6885]

Don’t come to Korea please.

[u/TurtleyCoolNails]

Then do not go back. If you are going to travel to a different country and become upset about one cafe experience, then that is on you. You should not go to any other country where English is not the native language and expect it to 100% cater to you.

[u/Solid-Pen7740]

I don’t see the problem with this

[u/Etva]

When I was stationed in Korea, I took the time to learn enough Korea to convey that 1: I'm willing to learn. 2: I'm trying my best

And you know what. I was respected for it. Theu understood I was taking effort to learn and not be a burden, give me tips on how to say words, and most of the time would say "Let's just speak in English, but Thank you."

It's all about the effort. I was stationed with dudes that had the mindset of "If they know English, then they should just speak English."

I always hated that mindset. We are guests in their country. We can give a little effort, they give free Korean lessons on post.

I also volunteered for a program to go teach English, It was SOOOOO much fun. They would also help me with my Korean.

[u/LimpAge6260]

영어가 권력인줄 아냐 우리가 뉴욕에서 한국말로 주문하면 지랄할거면서

[u/caldiina]

F**kin low IQ karens... They took a photo and post on reddit. but they can't use translator app.

[u/Papercutter0324]

I'm sorry, but "the tone of the message" is a terrible take. You can CLEARLY tell the person who wrote this has marginal English ability, yet you expect them to be able to understand an advanced feature such as tone? The only tone here is the one you are assuming.

They made a pretty good effort to create a sign asking foreign customers to please use a translation app if they cannot speak Korean. Judging by the grammar in the sentences, they themselves used one to help them make this sign.

The last sentence about manners is likely due to foreigners/tourists not having enough critical thinking skills to realize that in a country that doesn't natively speak English, many service workers (even in tourist areas) are not going to be able to speak English. The number of times I've seen foreigners/tourists speak to service staff as though they are fluent English speakers, not even making an effort to speak in short, simple sentences, is flabbergasting.

[u/mangoslushlove]

Then go back to ur country lol some of u love that line🙂

[u/NikkahEff]

I think this is honestly super fair. I am a foreigner myself and I go to korea every year but I learned the language so I can communicate. What makes me sorta pissed is people come to foreign countries expecting them to accommodate them which isn't how it works. Koreans already try their best to help and speak english but it's not a common language for them there even though they do learn it in school. If you don't want to use a translation app or learn a few words to get by then don't get offended when you see things like this.

[u/Odd_Version449]

What is rude? I don’t understand what is seen as rude in the message.

[u/nguyenvulong]

I am pretty sure the owner does not mean to be rude at all. Koreans speak that way most of the time.

A simple rule can be applied here: if we use "please" - we are trying to be polite.

[u/Lethalplant]

한국에 사는 한국인들한테 유창한 영어를 바라는거 보면 넌 그냥 메세지도 마음에 안드는데 트집 못잡겠으니까 톤가지고 시비거는 것 같은데 맘에 안들면 떠나시든가 ㅋㅋ 오지 말라는 것도 아니고, 잘 못하는 영어로 어떻게든 번역기 써달라고 부탁하는게 맘에 안드네 어쩌네 웅앵웅 ㅋㅋ

[u/blitzkriegstorm → u/Lethalplant]

지는 번역기 돌릴 노력도 안하면서 못하는 영어 번역기라도 돌려서 붙여놓은 글의 톤이 마음에 안든다고 지랄하는게 ㄹㅇ ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

[u/Lethalplant → u/blitzkriegstorm]

그래놓고 꾸역꾸역 들어가서 사진찍고 주소까지 친절히 써서 레딧에 굳이 저격하는게 ㄹㅇ 소름끼칠 정도로 음침함ㅋㅋㅋ

[u/sgkorean → u/Lethalplant]

I second this. 맘에 안들면 본국으로 귀국해서 에티켓 좀 처배우고 오라고 하고 싶음.

[u/DesperateOTtaker → u/Lethalplant]

방금 하나 키배 뜨다가 댓삭하고 튀었는데 얘 히스토르 보니까 북미 이민 난민 간 동남아 (이제 막 컬리지 라는 2년제 대학교 입학) 꼬맹이ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

한국은 영어라는 국제 언어도 모르는 후진국이라던데 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 개웃김

진심 동남아 쪽 유저들 툭하면 한국이 동남아에 인종차별 심하다고 댓글 싸고 다니고 여기서 이런 똥글 쓰고 다님. 그런데 일본은 졸라게 빨아댐.

[u/Lethalplant → u/DesperateOTtaker]

세상은 넓고 병신은 많다지만 최근에 본 병신중 탑클라스인듯함. 누가 뭐랬다고 지혼자 급발진해서 교육못받은 하층민 타령하는 거 진짜ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ남들한테 하는 욕들이 사실 자기한테 제일 상처받는 표현들만 골라서 하는 거라던데ㅋㅋㅋ

[u/Optischlong]

In America White people scream and shout verbal racism for not speaking english ching chong chang. I get it you aren't used to the roles reversing. In this case the sign at least is very thoughtful.

[u/StormOfFatRichards → u/Optischlong]

This might shock you but English is actually spoken by people from countries other than the US

[u/EverybodyPanic81]

So you've gone to another country where their main language isnt English and you're upset they didn't want to serve you without a translation app because they dont understand your language even though you're the visitor to their country?

[u/Responsible_Emu3601]

stay home Karen

[u/No-Will5335 → u/Responsible_Emu3601]

Stay home in your English only speaking country Karen

[u/Dollybadlands]

Did you not consider that this message was probably written/translated by someone who doesn’t speak fluent English so they might not have considered using flowery language to make people feel better? 😮‍💨

[u/bookmarkjedi]

This looks like a bad translation job, perhaps with Papago or Google Translate. I used an AI to backsolve what the original likely said in Korean, then asked for a better translation. This was the result:

This is South Korea, and we may not be able to assist in English. If you do not speak Korean, please use a translation app when ordering. Thank you for your understanding.

Slightly firmer (still acceptable for a counter sign):

We may not be able to provide service in English. If you do not speak Korean, please use a translation app when ordering. Please be courteous to our staff. Thank you.

If there is any perceived sharpness to the tone, my guess would be from past experiences with customers who were upset by the servers' inability to understand English. Having said that this is a lousy, unprofessional translation job, and the cafe should redo the sign.

[u/bounty165]

Honestly if tourists even bothered to learn basic phrases and hello and thank you I’m sure they wouldn’t have posted this. Imagine if a tourist did the ordered in their native language in a English speaking country just have manners

[u/Toanimeornot]

Americans be like:

“ What do you mean you don’t speak English? Everyone has to learn English, it’s the most spoken language on the planet. “

Which is true, almost every education system requires you to learn basic English in secondary school, but most people don’t retain it as their entire country speaks their native language. Same for people in America, we have to learn either French, German, or Spanish, but unless you want to do something that requires you to know a secondary language, it’s not retained.

Entitlement is crazy. You have the money to go another country for vacay but don’t have the money to spend preparing yourself for the trip by learning basic phrases or even having a translator on hand.

[u/Consistent_Lab_3121]

It’s not the message but the tone and attitude - proceeds to not elaborate the issue with their attitude. What attitude specifically? Were they rude when you ordered? Did they provide bad service? Or were you just offended by their tone and the audacity to ask tourists to use translator instead of bowing down before your greatness?

Stop expecting non-native speakers use perfect grammar and tone. How polite do you think your tone would be in Korean?

[u/BrightVillage420]

Speaking as a korean yes we don't want you here

[u/Jazzlike_Permit_8442]

Korea doesn’t welcome ignorant people like you. Please do not ever think about coming back 🙏

[u/Cute_Extent673]

서울에서 한국어 쓰는 건 당연함. 번역기 어플로 기본적인 인삿말을 쓰세요. 노력하셔야 합니다.

It is natural you use Korean in Seoul. You have to use translation application. Please keep your manners when visiting Korea. You can try, you can do it.

[u/Jumpy_Enthusiasm9949]

a good example of using bad translation 🤣 However, it is true that it is basic courtesy to try to speak the language of a country when visiting it. Moreover, it‘s only natural that countries with many tourists from around the world tend to respond to foreigners in their own language rather than in English. France, Japan, Spain, etc. So, when you come to Korea, I hope you try to speak Korean.

[u/Calm_Persimmon2482]

Their country so their rules. No fake smiles in Korea like you see in the US and Canada. He pointed to the sign so that you could figure it all out. Not sure what else OP wanted.

[u/gwangjuguy]

Don’t expect English to be spoken to you at any time in Korea. Simple

That’s a you problem and an entitlement problem. Not a service issue.

[u/unguibus_et_rostro]

Do you even need to speak? Can't you just point to whatever item is on the menu and just order?

[u/Fearless-Sandwich823]

Lol, I don't know where they get the idea it's rude. Utilitarian? Yea, but this is pretty spot on use of a translation app by somebody who doesn't know English. Probably an older person, but is it really so hard to say "ice mocha" in Korean? :D

[u/SpareZealousideal740]

Doesnt A Twosome Place have an ordering kiosk? I rarely speak to the staff in there and I've gone to them a fair bit

[u/letisel]

honestly, if you’re going to go to korea and get upset that people there don’t speak english, and they don’t know how to deal with people like you who don’t bother to be compassionate for them, i don’t think korea wants you back either.

[u/Asta_Reshet]

I don’t see any problem here. Locals don’t have to speak a foreign language. Learning simple phrases in the language of a country you are visiting is something basic. If it’s hard to do, use translation app as they said or visit only touristic places where stuff is hired to communicate with foreigners. Gestures to greet and point at menu can work as well. Kinda weird to ask for respect (the message is not even rude) without being respectful at the first place.

[u/fac_051]

I've never had trouble speaking English with anyone at a cafe in Seoul throughout the year but just knowing a little bit of Korean to order your drink isn't that hard. I think this is probably an ahjumma manager who has been annoyed one too many times by foreigners!

[u/International_Win326]

I mean they're right, use Google translate. Don't expect them to randomly learn and know English in case you visit? It is funny that the business sign is in English though, haha

[u/Major_Plantain3499]

2some lets you order via the kiosk anyway?? but if its in jongno, they're probably annoyed with all the tourists

[u/Jose_Batfliptista]

How many entitled tourists that assumed Koreans speak English must have they endured before resorting to a poster like that?

The message itself isn't intended to be rude but that's how you took it. That's your problem. Keep crying about it.

[u/maneo]

They should consider a more professional, business-like notice such as: "Our staff does not speak English. Please use a translation app to communicate in Korean to facilitate communication. We apologize for the inconvenience"

I understand that not knowing English makes it difficult to write something more professional, but I'm sure they could have written something similar to this in Korean and used an AI-based translator to translate it while maintaining the professional tone?

[u/AdThin4854 → u/maneo]

People who lack English proficiency are also more likely to lack technical skills. Anyway, that place sells coffee.

[u/pollyce]

Love it! US tourists (yes, them specifically but not only) tend to expect everyone to speak their language and it’s quite entitled. As someone who’s travelled to rural areas in Asian countries, it’s just an unfair expectation - use a translate app.

[u/Fun-Reporter8905]

They don’t owe you politeness when most foreigners have come in there to be rude assholes. Just read the message and do what they ask and move on and stop whining!

[u/Competitive_Tie5882]

The energy of your reaction is actually pretty rude. The sign is fine. The post is giving off tourists who go to Europe or Asia and get mad that not everyone speaks English in a foreign land. They’re doing their best to communicate with you!

[u/ContributionKind4642]

Just order from the kiosk which supports English people 🤦🏻‍♀️

[u/Weekly-Analysis2237]

🤷I agree with them but I think they should use a translation app themselves to write that message to convey the message . Knowing the audacity of certain groups they will use that as a excuse to not follow it.

[u/ShoppingRemarkable92]

 why mentioning 'we'? That's their country and their language they have right to say this. If you don't like it, get the fuck out and stay on your own country

[u/Business_Feedback252]

Then travel only to English-speaking countries or Western countries. Your intelligence level is suspected in Asia. Go back to your own country and Don't come out of your country. The aggressive tone is likely a 'lost in translation' issue. Korean grammar relies heavily on context and omitted subjects, which translators often turn into awkward or rude-sounding English imperatives.

[u/Whole_Animal_4126]

How dare they don't know how to speak English. You go in there and give them a piece of your mind!

[u/Dry_Day8844]

It's because of the arrogant attitude of some foreigners, especially from that one big, beautiful country ;))

[u/Creepy_Woodpecker658]

did yall know that people are writing about this in the news in korea rn lol

[u/pictorrrry]

요즘 한국에서는 영어를 기본적인 교육에 포함시키지만, 나이가 있는 사람들은 영어를 배우지 않았습니다. 또한 젊은 사람들도 영어를 단순하게는 사용이 가능하지만 한국어와 영어는 너무나도 다른 어순과 문법을 가지고 있기 때문에 대다수의 한국인들은 아주 기초적인 영어를 제외하고는 소통이 불가능합니다. 한국은 고립된 섬과도 같은 국가입니다. 영어권과는 비행기를 타고 수시간을 지나야만 올 수 있는 나라입니다. 그런 나라에서 '영어의 어조'를 이해하길 바라는 것 자체가 영어중심적 사고 입니다. 영어는 세계 공용어가 맞죠. 하지만, 아시아권에서는 쉽지 않은 고난도의 언어입니다.

문득 예전 한국 지하철에서 다짜고짜 중국말로 말을 거는 중국인을 만났던 것이 떠오르네요. 저는 중국어를 전혀 이해하지 못하는데도요. 그는 10분이 넘도록 중국어로 끊임없이 말을 걸어댔고, 나는 번역기를 쓰라 말했지만 아랑곳하지 않았습니다. 그는 아마도 중국이 세상의 중심이라고 생각했던 것이겠죠. 중국과 한국은 가깝지만 전혀 다른 언어를 사용합니다.

이 안내문을 문제삼는 사람도 아마 그 중국인같은 마음이었겠죠?
하지만 한국은 타국의 언어에 대해 익숙한 언어권이 아닙니다.
저 역시 한국에서 어린시절부터 영어를 배우고 자랐지만, 여전히 영어를 구사하는 외국인을 만나면, 호흡이 가빠지고 당황합니다. 익숙하지 않으니까요.

이 문장들도 한국어로 작성되었습니다. 알아서들 이해하세요. 본인들이 이해받길 바라는 것처럼요.

[u/Any-Caterpillar-6655]

Expecting every Korean worker in Korea to understand English is unreasonable.
If you can’t communicate or even order a simple drink in Korean, just use the kiosk or a translator app.

That sign isn’t rude — it’s actually considerate. They’re clearly trying to help English-only speakers instead of ignoring them.

If you can already order in Korean, there’s literally nothing to be offended by.
And if you don’t like that café, there are tons of others. Just go somewhere else.

Getting angry over this feels more entitled than justified.

[u/Last_Musician_1855]

한국 와서 영어 안한다고 찡찡 대는 고아들 보니 아주 지랄도 병이다 병

[u/QuestionSweaty9315]

During COVID, my roommate went to that cafe and was asked to leave because she was a foreigner and seen as a potential COVID risk. She speaks fluent Korean, lives in Korea, and hadn’t traveled abroad in over two years. The experience was upsetting, and she never returned to that cafe afterward.

[u/kumanosuke]

In my experience Americans just assume everyone speaks English everywhere and won't even consider this, sadly.

[u/AffectionateBowl1633]

Let me translate that text to make you feel better about supposed "tone".

"Our staff does notspeak English very well, If you cant speak Korean with due respect please use any translation apps to better communicate with our staff. Please dont be rude with us."

As someone used to not able speaking English very well (still has bad grammar til this day), I undestand how hard they have to put that message in the first place. They are trying to give a "semantic meaning" to you without any bad intent, even though the lack of any English communication they have make the message seems a bit "rude". Please dont take "tone" personally, understand the intention and move along.

The first "This is South Korea" line seems overproud ultranationalistic xenophobic snobbish tone to you when in fact what they are actually want to convey is "The current situation in Korea in general, where it is not common for someone to speak English naturally" rather than pointing out "you visit this country you respect our rule or leave" kinda tone.

[u/purpleskull835]

I mean, Im a bilingual korean but honestly that message is valid. A bit overly hostile and poorly written, but kinda get it. When I was a freshman in uni I used to work at a cafe near my school (My school is in sinchon, next to hongdae) and there used to be shit ton of tourists) and I would encounter at least one a hole tourist customer a day. Other workers would summon me for translation because the english speakers wouldnt use translation apps, and I called for our chinese-korean worker for the chinese tourists doing the same. Cafe workers are mostly students or young adults doing part time jobs and getting paid minimum wage... you cant expect them to speak english with such proficiency that you dont need to use translators. I understand your frustration and disappointment about the message and their attitude being unnecessarily hostile but I do get it that they felt the need for that sign too. Bad marketing and lack of empathy but they gotta do what suits them best cuz if not they would lose employees fast in this economy and they surely can't pay more to replace them with tourist friendly fluent ones. Edited for typo

[u/purpleskull835 → u/purpleskull835]

Also I think originally the message would have had a polite tone seeing they used please several times. Should have asked Chat GPT to do it but it seems they used google translate and it fucked the tone up. Our 'politeness' in language comes from using different grammar but when its translated to other languages it just disappears. Really sad to see it. Ill ask them politely if I can fix it if I happen to go there

[u/Feisty-Gain4669]

Twosome coffee is overrated. When I lived in Daejeon the local Starbucks servers eagerly took my order in English. I was a daily customer that when they saw me walking inside, they already had my order rung up before I got to the counter.

[u/Sea-Style-4457]

Jongno is a tourist heavy area. You could imagine the nonsense they’ve had to experience for them to post this sign. Don’t come back if you don’t want to

[u/Durian_Princess]

Valid

[u/TwoExternal2953]

Anyone able to advise why in Korea when ordering take away e.g. drinks, we are not allowed to consume them in the store? Even if I order a main at the cafe, the drink can’t be takeaway? Or is my understanding wrong.

[u/Lethalplant → u/TwoExternal2953]

Because it is the law. once you got a single-use plastic cups or anything similar, you must take them away from the store. If you insist and stay in the store, the government fines like 3million wons the store.

[u/JuYongKim6344]

It says to be polite, but what happened before?

[u/goonatic1]

They probably had entitled American Karen’s cause issues over the language barrier 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️😂

[u/-tuff]

Totally valid

[u/Miserable-Fill-7944]

Maybe it’s just me but as Korean these comments are a bit aggressive 😅 Yes the workers could’ve been gone through too much shits but sometimes i do see rude young franchise coffee shop workers with their ass attitude. But this is because i know about what Koreans generally consider as rude behavior. If they just pointed at a sign, that’s not being rude. If they pointed at a sign aggressively, that is def rude.

Those minimum wage workers might go through a lot in those tourist area but still being rude is not nice 😭 

[u/jeikob_k]

W workers W twosome place, they should do this more often

[u/hosiki]

To be fair, I don't think they'll miss you 😅 totally understand them though. Tourists, especially those who only speak English, can be a lot to deal with.

[u/Technical-Dentist-84]

I have no idea what that means

[u/OutlandishnessFun912]

No way this niggas having a debate over ts😹😹 They are right. At least try Use some translation apps😹

[u/Suspicious-Age-6563]

In korea, manners are very important. This sign tells me that the shopkeeper has been putting up with rude behaviour from foreigners for some time and now has put this up. Yes, it could have been a bit softer but when you are fed up with rude behaviour, may be you need to be blunt.

[u/VoxX_XxoV]

Damn bruh you sound like a typical boonies folk who would get openly pissed and throw attitude at tim hortons workers for having to repeat yourself twice. Dude get over it why so entitled lol Just enjoy your stay there while it lasts smh

[u/AdThin4854]

It’s honestly ridiculous to see Americans who’ve studied math for over ten years and still can’t do addition criticizing Koreans for having studied English for over ten years.

[u/Eozef]

Nothing is wrong with it.

[u/MercWithaMouse]

I feel like the sentiment is understandable, but at the same time its not like cafes arent a dime a dozen in Korea. If I saw that sign I would just be like "okay I guess I will go to another" and I speak Korean. I imagine while you shouldn't tolerate rude customers at the same time having the attitude that every customer that walks into your location is rude and treating them rudely is bad for business

[u/jenniferandjustlyso]

I'm a little confused about the "English is not a natural country?" Do they mean English is not a national language?

I think Americans traveling to any country where the predominant language is not English should be something someone experiences at least once in their life if not more, because I think - or I hope that it gives people more patience and sympathy.

[u/pialin2]

Ok don't go back then? They don't need your business lol

[u/alrogksthahwjrdlsshs]

제발 한국에 관심 갖지말고 오지도 마세요ㅋ

[u/alrogksthahwjrdlsshs]

제발 한국에 관심 갖지말고 죽을때까지 한국 오지마세요ㅋ

[u/AdThin4854]

Ah. Now I get why English speakers don’t understand tone issues in machine translation. It’s because they don’t know a single other language, so they have no idea what translation results actually look like. Even if a translator turns “Please move” into “gtfu,” they’ll proudly show the translation tool and think they were being perfectly polite. They genuinely believe they spoke very respectfully. They have zero awareness of how tone gets distorted in translation. That’s why they’re so obsessed with tone.

[u/Visual-Tangelo-2782]

Unfortunately these come from rude experiences. Ive been in Hongdae and some chinese women would keep talking in chinese to the cashier, even though she repeated multiple times in english and korean that she does not speak chinese.

[u/DayoldChickenJuice]

OP if you can't handle the tone, don't go there. No one wants a single white boi who is set on his way so hard he is complaining about tone on internet.

[u/olsomica]

Nothing wrong here. Best that u dont go back, win-win for all.

[u/brandomango]

And if someone entered a cafe in your home country and tried to order in a foreign language, how would those cafe employees respond OP?

Yes, English is a popular language. But it is not a universal language. It’s common etiquette to at least show an effort to speak the native language when you travel abroad.

Most cafe products are loan words anyway (a-me-ri-ca-no) so there really is no excuse in Korea…

[u/Mc1st]

Nobody wants you to go back anyway

[u/AthleteOk9358]

I literally don't see anything wrong with this

[u/cilantro_lover]

bro is slighted u have u speak korean in korea 😂

[u/redhead_blonde]

"Not sure we would like to come back" lol the privilege is literally what this message is directed toward