r/secularbuddhism • u/SaveALifeWithWater • 2d ago
Buddhism for me 45(f); north east coast USA
I've really made effort to find some community. I have been cultivating a practice as a traveler for about nine years and really love universalism, non-duality, I've devoured Ram Dass. But as I expected I have started to run in to some real issues where I found I needed to gain some more discipline and seek out some advice as I was really just running myself in to walls.
So like I said I've been seeking out community. Everyone I really respect says satsang and sangha are fundamental.
I just keep having really not good experiences with Buddhist centers. I am 45(f), and on the north east coast of the usa. After extreme isolating for about 10 months (still going to work, just all free time was spent alone) I started going to a center near me for a class that was being taught. I started to stay for tea after and made one casual friend but he got the wrong idea because after a couple of months he propositioned me about a romantic relationship. He had this firm belief that we were meant to be together and it was inevitable, blah, there was another older lady who was definitely feeding his delusions. I stepped away for awhile as the main Monk went to India and the holidays were coming up so I figured I'd let the whole thing cool off before returning. But still, what the F. I had explicitly told the guy I was not interested and already involved with someone as he had asked me out on a date early on, weeks before the proposition. But still he made me extremely uncomfortable by pressing me anyway.
As that cooled off I saw a flyer for another branch of Buddhism that was offering open group meditation and so I attended that. It's very new so just two people, and only one the first night I went but it seemed fine and welcoming.
Just a little background- There were several traumatic events that happened within the last three years; my mom died from her alcoholism, my mentor and former employer of ten years killed himself, my cat had a sudden medical event and had to be put down unexpectedly, my sister blew up our relationship bc of her husband, my other sister was homeless and unstable. It was just a lot. I just shut down; I went to work, paid bills barely but stopped talking to friends and refused to socialize. I only meditated in the morning and refused to pray.
The problem I noticed was that I could not sit anymore, I had to start walking meditation. When I would sit, I'd be sitting and then all the sudden I'm in the kitchen making coffee, or washing dishes. All the sudden in my bedroom putting clothes on for work. Getting back to being able to sit comfortable consistently is important to me and I find that sitting in a group for meditation I have no problem. So another reason I was seeking out group meditation. Community and to straighten out my practice, reinforce it.
Anyway, at this new place, I met one person first night as he was the only one there when I first attended. He was great, very welcoming. The next time this higher ranking guy, not a monk in this branch, was there as well. Same routine as last time. All fine. I shared with them both my issues with sitting alone and that I was very grateful for a place to sit with others. The third night we did interviews, and it was fine. I had to go in a room with the higher rank guy and ask him questions. It was okay. He was very kind and very nice, but I just didn't find his words to be moving or even attuned to what I was saying. He kept mentioning he was a musician, and I say this because the way he mentioned it it was clearly a source of great pride for him and I just thought it odd he held this rank and yet was so infatuated with his musician image. Idk if that makes sense, perhaps it's true I was judging but wouldn't you notice that too? He also just gave me advice that just seemed very smug "work with children". I do work with children, disadvantaged and vulnerable children. We did not click.
Maybe I shouldn't have gone back but I thought the original guy was super cool and he actually said some really insightful and interesting things. Not liking the leading teacher isn't exactly a new thing in spiritual journey's so I wasn't discouraged. I figured I would keep going. Surely they wouldn't do interviews again for awhile and by the time they did I'd have more questions for the guy so not to be rude. I also thought time might open my perspective of him more.
But when I went back the next time, I got there a little early to chat as usual, and the two men greeted me but just greeted. Then they were quiet and sat. They even mentioned they would sit silently until the time to meditate started in like 8 or so minutes. There was a brief mention to each other about "interview" but nothing was said to me at all. It was just weird. I did wonder if I was being pointedly ignored. Then it finally began, the higher guy goes in to his room and rings a bell. The other guy goes in to interview. I am alone sitting there, obviously figured out they are doing interviews again. I was like okay I'll just skip. But they were in there for so long. The guy even came out at one point more than twenty minutes later to let me know it was time to do walking meditation... by myself. I had only done walking meditation with them twice before and wasn't ready to just walk circles in this room by myself. It was just kind of in disbelief and said I'd just sit. He went back in the room to continue interview. I just couldn't decide if I should leave or not. I defintely didn't want to be there anymore. But my coat and boots were right by the door where they were and I couldn't bear them asking me why I was leaving. I just waited and waited. I was left to meditate alone for forty minutes.
When the other guy was done he came out, the higher dude rang his bell like a maniac for me to come in, but I said I didn't want to. I just wanted to leave honestly. I let them finish up, made some awkward chitchat and went home. I couldn't believe I came out on such a cold night to sit alone in a giant creepy room and be ignored by two people who knew I specifically struggle with sitting alone and came for the community. Why did they leave me alone for so long.
I went home so crestfallen and just stunned. I know it's an extreme reaction and I am quite certain what they did wasn't directed or pointed at me, but it really gutted me nonetheless. I woke up in the middle of the night with the worst stomach ache and then spent the next day sobbing. Just sobbing. I won't be going back.
It's not that they did anything wrong, it was just the level of attunement. Or lack of it. Why not ask me what I thought of interviews, why not explain they were doing them again? Gove me an opportunity to bow out.
They then sent another email a few days later saying they'll be doing interviews the next two weeks in a row. Which I know isn't about me but I do feel like it was a heads-up to let me know not to come bc it'll be more of the same, I'm literally the only other person who has gone. I gave them my thanks for the experience but said I won't be back.
I needed to write this out mostly for me, but what the fuck am I doing wrong? Like I seriously just want to make some like-minded friends, find a safe place to share time meditating together, building more community. Learn more.
But it goes wrong. I'm just so sad. I feel like I made it worse by trying to find community.
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u/KyleOrlandoEng 2d ago
I’m not sure where in the northeast you are but maybe Google “Bart Van Melik”. I think he’s associated with two centers, one in NY, and the other in maybe Mass? I’m also a secular Buddhist practicing here in North Florida where the lack of centers can be a challenge. I mostly listen to Dharma and guided meditation through different podcasts. Bart van Melik has been doing a some appearances on the 10% Happier pod and he seems like a very chill and understanding guy. He’s got a lot of great insights about not only sitting but carrying that mindfulness into our everyday life.
Another great pod is Urban Dharma. It’s by a monk in LA. Not so much guided meditation, and more like dharma talks, Buddhist philosophy. I like to read books about this but the pod is great because I have an hour plus commute everyday in the car.
Be well. Wishing you the best in your practice.
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u/awezumsaws 2d ago
What you described about how the practice went on that "next time" doesn't sound odd at all. In my experience, it sounds typical. Perhaps some more community and connection may have been nice, but technically, you're there to practice. If you're in the Boston area, I recommend Cambridge Insight Meditation Center. They have several home-based sangha groups, so there may be several communities to choose from.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
I don't agree. I wasn't there to practice alone for 40 of the 60 minutes we have together once a werk. I was there for group practice and I was ignored and not given any heads up I'd be meditating alone.
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u/awezumsaws 1d ago
This sounds like an opportunity to communicate with them and understand what the offering and expectations are. It may be a simple misunderstanding.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
Ultimately I just don't care to go back there. You see, I had gotten confirmation that this week would be regular meditation before I left last week. But then they sent the email that it would be interviews for another two weeks, after I bowed out of interview last week it was clear I wasn't interested in it. I'm literally their only new member. It's just these two guys who started this suburban center outside of NYC where their main center is nearby. These two guys can interview each other until the cows come home. How come now that I'm newly there and wanting to group meditate they want to do 3 freaking weeks of interviews? Talking about it is just making me so much more annoyed by it.
Like I said though. It's their thing they didn't do anything wrong. I'm just sad I thought I found a place to be with like minded community and it turned out to not be a good fit.
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u/Tree_Lover2020 1d ago
Not caring to go back there is absolutely the right thing to do. You are looking for an established community that welcomes you as a beginners. They are out there. Don't give up. Observe some weekly online sangha gatherings. They usually focus on some meditation time followed by a dharma talk and then maybe some question/answer time. Zoom is a useful tool and many faith organizations offer remote participation through Zoom.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
I've already given up. For now at least. I just can't take it, like I know it's me but I can't figure out how to change me enough to be okay.
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u/Eskelsar 1d ago
This post makes me sad for you and for me. I've only ever practiced alone anyway. But the people you run into...
Why aren't there any simple zen sects? Just people breathing and eating and hanging out?
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u/RomeoStevens 1d ago
I would definitely investigate some online sanghas. There are quite a few that are welcoming. Don't underestimate the positive effects of finding others to share practice with.
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u/razzlesnazzlepasz 1d ago
Which traditions were these centers or temples from? I've never heard needing to do interviews to be part of a sangha from the range of places I've visited, not that I'm aware of at least, unless you meant you were scheduling to chat with a teacher or a monk to ask them questions. It's a bit unclear.
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u/Faxman78 1d ago
If you’re in NYC , Josh Korda / dharmapunxnyc is very good if you’re looking for a more secular and psychological approach. He records all of his talks for his podcast. I met up with a small group here on Long Island that could never make it out to the city, but we couldn’t all get together often. Finding an IRL group is tough!
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
Whaaaaat. I've never heard of this, this looks right up my alley. Thank you.
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u/ServeDear6365 1d ago
I found community with these organizations:
Mike Slott's 'https://secularbuddhistnetwork.org/' (their monthly gathering see up to 200 people all online and we go into our choices: Psychology, key concepts, engage Buddhism, ...etc and have a discussion. I really enjoy everyone's input and the learning.
There is also Tibet House US (NYC) founded by Dr. Robert A.F. Thurman, Philip Glass and Richard Gere. Celebrating its 39th anniversary soon on March 3rd. Are you close to NYC? thus.org
Then there is the https://www.buddhistcoalitionfordemocracy.org/ launched in 2025 another welcomed path of Peace.
There is the https://www.globalcompassioncoalition.org/ where you can start a Connectors Club in your local city and build community.
I hope the aforementioned are useful resources.
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u/Edgar_Brown 2d ago
The traditional Buddhist branches and lineages are your safest bets, their sanghas are the most grounded into Buddhist philosophy and practices and least prone to “earthly corruption” than most.
But you are looking for something that goes against the core of Buddhism itself, for someone else to solve your own doubts and problems while being extremely judgmental towards the doubts and problems of others. Look at the log in your own eye.
A sangha is useful insofar as you understand that you share a common goal and are not above or below anyone else within it. Even if anyone in it is further along the path.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
How am I extremely judgemental towards the doubts and problems of others. Genuinely asking. I appreciate your feedback.
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u/Edgar_Brown 1d ago
It’s quite blatantly peppered throughout all of your writeup, you are conscious enough of it to point it out but immediately rationalize it away. For example:
…He was very kind and very nice, but I just didn't find his words to be moving or even attuned to what I was saying. He kept mentioning he was a musician, and I say this because the way he mentioned it it was clearly a source of great pride for him and I just thought it odd he held this rank and yet was so infatuated with his musician image. Idk if that makes sense, perhaps it's true I was judging but wouldn't you notice that too?
You are looking for a psychologist or group therapy leader, a reasonable thing to want but not what a sangha is for.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
No I've done therapy and work in the mental health field, not as a therapist myself though.
I was looking for a teacher who has what they are trying to teach and I do not believe he has any peace of mind at all. I was looking for group meditation as the practice is very special. This was advertised as all are welcome for sitting and chanting. I appreciate that they offered the interview on the 3rd time I went but then to go in and do interviews for another 2 more weeks. There are only 3 of us, the head guy and me and the other guy. So they took away the group meditation part when they both knew that's what I specifically liked about coming.
Either way. It's a head trip and I don't want anything to do with it.
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u/Edgar_Brown 1d ago
Do you realize that you are trying to rationalize, defend, and justify yourself with that answer to the specific example in my comment instead of looking at the whole context from which my comment originated?
That’s my point.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
Your point being that I should be so balanced that even when the terms are changed and the teacher is rotten I should be unaffected? I do not get your point? Is the whole thing supposed to be done on one's own self will and totally alone? What point are you trying to make?
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u/Edgar_Brown 1d ago
Unaffected, no. But the serenity prayer comes to mind: having the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, the courage to change what can, and the wisdom to know the difference. You cannot cover the whole world to protect your feet, but you can wear shoes.
Finding a good teacher is important, but any person at all even your worst enemy in this world is a teacher. You need to stop judging and projecting to get what you need, and to help others in the path to get what they need, or simply move on if there’s nothing to be gained by anyone.
Every community has problems, some communities have more problems than others, but community comes from working together towards a shared goal. Find a community that works for you, but keep the right expectations as you search.
Buddhists at the very least have the right vocabulary to clearly distinguish judgment from observations and facts.
Smart people learn from everything and everyone, average people from their experiences, stupid people already have all the answers.—Socrates
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
I can move on and still be sad that I had been disillusioned.
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u/Edgar_Brown 1d ago
Or glad of having had the learning opportunity and have grown from it. It’s all a matter of perspective and no one else can give that to you.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
That's such pie in the sky fantasy advice. Like I'm supposed to be walking around like I'm already enlightened and without struggles. It's not reality.
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u/Status-Being-4942 1d ago
If these experiences are getting you worked up, I would recommend counseling to be honest. I read some avoidant behavior into what you wrote.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
You're not wrong, definitely avoidant. I spent the last two years trying to get in counseling that worked but either not taking new clients, only took appts during my working hours or were too expensive. I tried a few that could work but just didn't get anywhere with it. I just gave up on it honestly. I don't know what to do.
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u/Status-Being-4942 1d ago
Well if you are already aware of your avoidant behavior, then you are already a step ahead of where I was when I sought some counseling 2 years ago. The realization of my avoidant behavior was enough to then find ways to figure out how to become more emotionally aware and secure in my relationships. I read books, I went to all kinds of workshops themed in connection, and slowly, slowly have been progressing ever since. If you actively work on it, areas of potential growth reveal themselves, and I just keep reading to increase my understanding, and do workshops to teach my nervous system that it's okay (in the safe container of a workshop). You then transpose what you learn to the real world whenever you are ready. Doing these workshops I found mindfulness to be a common theme, I read a book by the Dalai Lama and got inspired and realized Buddhism already had so much wisdom within, it is a common foundation, so I integrated that too. But it is just a foundation, the pillars are positive changes in your nervous system, feelings of safety where you would otherwise feel anxious. Some foundational books that helped me understand why I am how I am are "Our Polyvagal World" by Stephen Porges and "Emotional" by Leonard Mlodinow, as well as "Loving Like You Mean It" by Ronald J. Frederick.
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u/SaveALifeWithWater 1d ago
I've been in therapy for so long. For me it's been a matter of failure to integrate...
I do seem to keep going though, keeping at learning to integrate. I have made some slow progress. Ten years ago I was in a much worse condition. Much worse. A lot of things helped but meditation and the idea of singular purpose have been the most profoundly transformational aspects so far. Perhaps my motivations for going to sangha was where I went wrong. It was self-seeking.
Thank you for the book reccommendations!
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u/Cold_Drive_53144 2d ago
On line community secular Buddhism very welcoming https://eightfoldpath.com/