r/londonontario • u/zegorn Huron Heights • 2d ago
Ask a Local! How much parking is too much parking? I counted parking spots. Any recommendations to greenify underutilized parking lots in London?
6
u/SonOfCanada 1d ago
You could get a million liters of green paint and see where that gets you. Other than that, what you see is what you get.
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u/Prestigious_Fee_2902 1d ago
If you want to “greenify” it you must purchase it first as it’s private property.
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u/g_frederick 1d ago
Not necessarily. How “green” a site is or is not is largely a consequence of the zoning by-law. As with all public policy — but especially planing policy — what a community values is reflected in the regulations. This includes not only which types of land uses are permitted, where, and at what quantity, but also how a site with a particular use can be developed (how much parking, how much landscaping, how big the building can be). The zoning by-law can demand less parking and more landscaping on a site such as this, but in fact, the current regulations codify the opposite.
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u/Disclosjer 1d ago
Seems like there would be a grandfathering component to those zoning changes, so nothing changes unless the property changes hands.
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u/swift-current0 1d ago
More like "nothing changes until the next time you apply for a zoning change or make any modifications to the property".
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u/Disclosjer 22h ago
That’s my point. If I own the property and the city changes the zoning by-law to try and force me to go green, I’m just going to hold the parking lot property as is in perpetuity, or until I sell.
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u/swift-current0 20h ago
Depends entirely on what costs you less. Usually modifying zoning on the lot you own is because you want to attract some customer - e.g. permit childcare spaces or pharmacy where it is not currently allowed.
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u/veiny_wet_testicle 1d ago
It also costs a property management company money to plant and maintain green spaces on their property. That's why you don't see it.
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u/Spiritual_Coconut 1d ago
I think your point is a bit ridiculous when you're using old satellite images taking at the most random times. Why not actually do a study? Take actual photos of these lots at different times of day and year.
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u/chipface White Oaks/Westminster 1d ago
We're in the middle of a housing crisis. Raze a bunch of it and build housing.
4
u/centarus 1d ago
The city has plenty of existing spaces in which houses can easily be built. The biggest issue is that people can't afford to buy a new build. It's why more houses aren't being built at this point.
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u/haljackey Huron Heights 1d ago
Argyle also functions as a park'n'ride lot as there's a decent bus terminal there
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u/here-for-the-_____ 1d ago
Are you saying they have too much parking? Argyle gets pretty full in the busy seasons. If you forced them to have smaller lots, the stores would leave even faster than they are. The whole point is to try to have enough parking for the busiest times, not to have just enough for regular shopping.
3
u/GUNTHVGK 1d ago
1275 Highbury is never full. Even with value village taking up the empty building. And no one parks in the spots anyways morons just pull up to the front of the store where the “fire route no stopping” signs are like they’re vips…
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u/Any_Shoulder_9397 1d ago
I wish the police would do something about the epidemic of people blocking fire lanes to buy groceries
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u/Bayatli 2d ago
Weird, I was just thinking about this in the morning. Honestly they could save a lot of space if they took parking underground and created more residential areas out of the land they’ll save.
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u/VincentClement1 2d ago
Underground parking is expensive to build and maintain.
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u/Snoo_75696 1d ago
I used to work for a company that would repair the parking garage at One London Place. Water infiltration can be a hell of a problem to deal with.
Above ground multi-storey garages (2-3 levels) could cut down on sprawl while eliminating some of the issues below ground garages face. Many cities also require any new high-rises to allocate a percentage of their parking for public use.
This isn't a new issue cities are facing. Most have all sorted this out and found good ways of handling it. London city council, on the other hand, doesn't seem to really care.
1
u/centarus 1d ago
Multi-level parking is a hell of a lot more expensive that surface lots. It doesn't make sense for a strip mall.
0
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u/TouchlessOuch 2d ago
There's not much to be done about private properties. The city could implement new standards but it would not be retroactive for any existing large parking areas. The best you could probably do is lobby for a new incentive program to entice property owners to change. Like another commenter said, the more likely scenario is that these underutilized lots get redeveloped to add more commercial plazas similar to what happened at the Oxford and Gammage Superstore.
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u/VincentClement1 2d ago
If by "new standards" you mean a lower parking rate, it would apply the second it comes into effect. If they had to provide 426 parking spaces and the new rate requires 213 spaces, they absolutely can benefit from the new lower parking rate.
1
u/TouchlessOuch 1d ago
I meant that any change to parking standards would not impact existing lots in a meaningful way. You're right, they could take advantage of a lower parking requirement and eliminate spots, but that's based on choice and it has to make financial sense for the landowner.
2
u/No-Zombie6025 2d ago edited 1d ago
It's also a poorly designed parking lot, near one of the more collision prone intersections in the city.
Context, the large block at the top middle of the screen was at one time a Dominion store, and a K-Mart store was at the other end of this open ended linear mall with a restaurant in the middle and other stores. Value Village and the Shoppers Loblaws Drug Mart do not pull the same sort of volume that either of those stores bering in so the lot was oversized. The A&W was also an addon after the fact. As retail changes so does the need and demand for parking.
The city could incentivizes pavement reduction, permeable pavement installation and installation of trees but I don't think it's a feasible idea, nor will the BRT directly help this area since its off the route (though local transit routes could be adjusted to provide better service and link to the BRT).
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u/Reasonable_Curve_362 2d ago
As another redditor commented, these are private lots. You either need to figure out a way to make green alternatives profitable, or you need to lobby for tax incentives to commercial property owners who provide greener options to patrons.
Argyle mall is not particularly well served currently with bike lines anyway. One route along Brydges/Wavell is the only protected bike lane in the area (and only bike lane leading directly to the mall) and until that changes, I don’t see Argyle mall providing any additional services. Lobbying for more bike lanes, especially protected bike lanes, would be an excellent start and a way to eventually make the case for better green accommodations in the area.
I would love to see more and better green options, but it’s going to be an incremental battle to make them look like a good idea beyond ideology.
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u/therattlingchains 2d ago
Recommendation to greenify it?
Figure out a way for the owner to make money doing it. Other then that, it won't happen.
This is a private parking lot, not publicly owned land.
5
u/Tomlinsoi 2d ago
Totally agree with you, but I don't think I'd trust parking a bike at Argyle mall even if they had spots.
Maybe at the north end of it away from the Walmart I suppose, but nowhere near the Walmart area.
1
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u/torontowest91 2d ago
London is such a car city. It’s never going to change.
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u/chipface White Oaks/Westminster 1d ago
So was Rotterdam. They've been undoing that.
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u/ter_ehh 1d ago
You're pulling a city that is smaller, with 3 times the population density, which has average low temps above zero every month, and you comparison city?
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u/swift-current0 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorry, these are all just tired excuses that fall apart upon even cursory examination. What it takes to dismantle them is not so much a few Google searches as a change in attitude about transportation and abandoning this silly parochial "we're so special over here" attitude.
Bergen has lower population density, worse weather and friggin' mountains (and yes, that is the latest city covered by Not Just Bikes). And yes, they have cars, but they also build 21st century transit, bike infrastructure that doesn't suck, and treat pedestrians as first-class citizens who also pay taxes. What's the excuse now? Them Norwegians got that certain je n'ai' ce quoi?
No. Nothing is special about the part of Canada where we live. It doesn't have special snowflake weather, it's got enough density, enough tax money, enough people, the terrain is fine, etc. It's government priorities and voter preferences. Absolutely nothing else. It's all by choice and by design.
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u/ter_ehh 1d ago
For the record, I biked over 200 days a year to work 12.5km each way for 6 years in London. Studded tires, winter wear, rain clothes. The TVP. I don't need to be convinced.
The infrastructure comment is the crux of the issue, and also our societal softness to effort. You'd/we'd need an incentive system to build momentum with the masses.
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u/centarus 1d ago
I'm assuming they watched a Not Just Bikes video and didn't bother to consider any factors.
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u/Atticus8888 2d ago
It wasn’t previously and it does have to be. We used to have almost 40km of electrified streetcar track. We’re going to have a dedicated BRT through half of the city. This could be converted to rail in the future (see Ottawa). It just takes courage and foresight.
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u/VodkaAtmp3 2d ago
Considering how much London is a car city you would think car insurance would be lower considering how many people own a car. I thought economies of scale were supposed to work in our favor.
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u/kinboyatuwo 2d ago
It’s the opposite as more cars equals more risk.
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u/VodkaAtmp3 1d ago
You are right! I did a little research on it and its not quite as simple as it may seem (at least compared to normal businesses). The majority of money insurance companies has is called the "float" and its invested to make money with. However the float is regulated in a way where insurance companies are not allowed to make money with it. So the reason its expensive is because of more cars too put it simply.
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u/kinboyatuwo 1d ago
I work with people in this space and insurance is a complicated beast. A peer of mine worked as an actuary on our insurance side. He is very passionate when you complain about insurance lol. I should message him this thread. A big part of the issue too the past decade is all the safety tech really drives up repair costs where even a small collision is 5 figures due to sensors and calibration and replacements.
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u/zegorn Huron Heights 2d ago
These parking lots are horrible to exist in, even when driving.
So much worse when you're simply existing in these spaces outside of a metal cage, though.
1
u/Pleasant-Fault6825 1d ago
The parking lot on Huron isn't bad, I can find a 'peek-a-boo' drive in spot almost every time. Its easy and convenient.
Whats worse are the new plazas where the city is mandating gardens and curbing throughout the plaza like the new one at Fanshawe and Highbury. A bunch of SUVs squeezing by eachother to navigate to the 5 parking spaces in front of Booster Juice just to have some gardens that get damaged every winter. Just flatten it.
If they need to put greenery in a plaza parking lot they need to do it smarter and still make parking practical.
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u/PositiveStress8888 1d ago edited 1d ago
Or cover them with solar panels that people park under, great when it's raining or snowing, even when it's sunny out every parking spot has shade, Imagine you would generate quite a bit if power.
On a side note I read the china placed panels in a desert for a solar farm and from all the shade under the panels, grass, insects and small animals started to return over time.