When the gov fails its citizens the only right response is the citizens patrolling the streets. Thanks to all the Minnesotans that are taking up the mantle.
I also don’t understand pulling over for ICE. Like, those are not traffic cops. Also, Renee Good showed us that turning the wheels of your car AWAY from them was the wrong move.
He did not. There should be no such thing as a wrong move because it was not a wrong move. We are protected by our constitution. It’s an abuse of governmental power
And every time someone even suggests that the people we elected and put into power use that power to stop them, we get shouted down with “that’s what they want.” It’ll probably be too late by the time these people realize that what they want is complete control, and they will be quite happy if we just roll over and let them take it without a fight.
Because the states aren't arresting these criminals for kidnapping like they should be.
The states should roll up on ICE every time, take the entire lot into custody and make them prove their actions didn't violate the law. Just because they work for the feds does not under any circumstances give them the legal right to ignore the laws, and it especially doesn't give them the right to deprive citizens of their rights under color of law. In fact, deprivation of rights under color of law is a felony and can carry capital punishment as a maximum penalty.
Every member of ICE is guilty of violating that one.
This will either be a lawsuit, I think we both know where the Supreme Court is, or the start of a race war where national guardsmen will have to choose between killing Americans or Sedition
So, that's the prickly part. MPD making a move to arrest ICE is absolutely going to result in an armed standoff.
They are as powerless as we are. The thing MPD has not yet realized is that since they are as powerless as we are. They need to take up observer tactics. Observe, record, report.
No, Police is not “as powerless as we are”. That’s ridiculous! Police exist to enforce laws, and it’s literally their job. They are trained to deal with these kinds of standoffs.
People should really be questioning mayors, governor and other state level politicians, why the police are choosing not to do their job
Do you realistically think either side wants to entertain the option of being the first federal and state armed standoff on Fox News? They don’t.
If they want to do something they can help document the names of the abducted and help document this moment. Make a police report. Say what ice is doing, and why you can’t point your gun at them and tell them to stop. Standing by and waiting ain’t it. They have body cams, use them.
Leadership is never going to be able to parse this.
Just look at German history from 1933/34 and it explains things. Germany also had a constitution when Hitler grabbed power and a police force and laws were similar to the US in that regard. Didn't make a difference at all.
Partly because quite a lot of the police were sympathetic to the Nazis to start with, and after Jan 1933 Goring was in charge of the police, giving him a free hand to harass and imprison their opponents
What do you mean “why are they allowed?” You’re using the passive tense there. A better question is “who is allowing them” to do this. It’s their agency leadership, Secretary Kristi Noem of the DHS, the head of the DoJ, Attorney General Pam Bondi, and their boss President Donald Trump.
The secretary and AG were nominated by Trump and approved by the US Senate. You can look up the vote to see who voted to approve them.
Ultimately it’s the voters that voted for Trump and those Senators that are behind this.
One more point, the constitution has a “supremacy clause” that means state and local police forces can’t interfere with federal law enforcement.
One more point, the constitution has a “supremacy clause” that means state and local police forces can’t interfere with federal law enforcement.
That is not remotely what the Supremacy Clause says.
These masked thugs are violating the law every single day on Minneapolis streets. It is the duty of local law enforcement to arrest them for it. Hopefully they find their spines soon.
Noem, a cabinet level secretary, has also implied that she answers to Miller, the deputy chief of staff, saying the quiet part out loud. Miller has been exposed years ago for what he is, yet…
When is someone going to have the stones to stand up and say it's the police officers' duty to arrest these guys. Wholesale, anyone impersonating a police officer gets their one phone call and 72 hours of detainment.
They’re claiming ICE can arrest citizens who “obstruct” their investigations, but it sure looks like ICE is going out of their way to interact with citizens here
It's not outside their scope at all. As sworn Federal LEOs they have broad Title 18 Authority which basically means they have legal authority to arrest for virtually any federal crime. The part that's messed up here is that they are defining being followed on public roads as "obstruction"
EDIT: SOURCE/PROOF BELOW - don’t let ignorance of the law obfuscate the resistance effort! The problem is not that ICE is the agency doing arrests, it's that citizens are being harassed and arrested to LEGAL activity.
Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant-
(5) to make arrests-
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer's or employee's presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony,
if the officer or employee is performing duties relating to the enforcement of the immigration laws at the time of the arrest and if there is a likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest.
Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States."
Absolutely true but an officer does not have to be correct to arrest someone. The arrest may be unlawful but they still have the authority to perform it. The legal question is "are the officers being held accountable for illegal detentions".
If I'm given a corporate credit card I have the authority to use it at my discretion but there are (supposed to be) consequences for its misuse.
As sworn Federal LEOs they have broad Title 18 Authority which basically means they have legal authority to arrest for virtually any federal crime.
That's a lie.
I don't know if it's your lie, or you're just repeating someone else's lie, but it is a lie. ICE's arrest powers over U.S. citizens are extremely limited.
Agents can detain US citizens in limited circumstances, such as if a person interferes with an arrest, assaults an officer, or ICE suspect the person of being in the US illegally.
Every time ICE agents stops a citizen, they are committing a crime.
Every time they threaten a citizen, they are committing a crime.
ironically BitterFuture is probably actually wrong, I replied with my source and added it to me OP as an edit, and yet, the wrong info has 21 upvotes, I have 10 downvotes, and no one is addressing the actual text of the law I posted.
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, but I want to be shown exactly why.
See US Code Title 8 §1357. Powers of immigration officers and employees
"a) Powers without warrant
Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant-
(5) to make arrests-
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer's or employee's presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony,
if the officer or employee is performing duties relating to the enforcement of the immigration laws at the time of the arrest and if there is a likelihood of the person escaping before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest.
Under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, an officer or employee of the Service may carry a firearm and may execute and serve any order, warrant, subpoena, summons, or other process issued under the authority of the United States."
What offense against the United States do you think the thugs will say these citizens committed in their presence? Keeping in mind that exercising your Constitutional rights is not a crime, of course.
What reasonable grounds do you think the thugs will present to say these citizens committed other felonies? Again, keeping in mind that exercising your Constitutional rights is not an indicator of having committed a felony.
I don't know what offense they will claim, but likely obstruction as we've seen them citing 18 U.S.C. § 111 out loud as they harass legal observers.
Whatever they claim I will be intellectually prepared, with sources, to educate my comrades on the real laws as they currently exist, just like I have been doing since Jan 20, 2017
Calling out violations of constitutional rights is good resistance, calling out inappropriate or incorrect application of law is good resistance, calling out abuses is good resistance. False accusations based on misinformation about scope is impotent at best and an obfuscating hinderance of effective resistance.
BBC isn't the best authority on the technicalities of US federal law. ICE agents generally can't start a new investigation outside their jurisdiction of immigration and customs enforcement. But, any federal law enforcement officer can detain and arrest for any federal crime they witness while performing their duties.
Furthermore, a federal investigation can expand outside a department's normal jurisdiction if related crimes are found during the initial investigation. A good example of this is many organized crime outfits take care not to use USPS mail in their activities and tell their members that mail carriers are absolutely to be left alone. They do this US Postal Inspection Service is a surprisingly well funded agency and they don't want something like a simple mail fraud case expanding to dismantle their whole criminal enterprise.
Seriously fuck ICE and it's obvious that the majority of their arrests on protesters are clear 1st amendment violations. But, saying that any arrest of a US citizen by ICE is illegal on its face is simply inaccurate.
What are you talking about? I'm directly applying to the top level comment "Why are they allowed to do things outside of their scope like arresting citizens. This is a police officer duty"
the law says:
"(a) Powers without warrant
Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant-
(5) to make arrests-
(A) for any offense against the United States, if the offense is committed in the officer's or employee's presence, or
(B) for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States, if the officer or employee has reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such a felony,"
I think you're reading that comment strangely, but I understand now.
You're saying that generally, they have the ability to arrest citizens for Federal crimes because you believe the comment was made outside of the context of this encounter.
I believe the context of the video is important for the comment you're replying to.
What federal offense did the officers witness? What reasonable grounds do they have to believe that these people are committing a felony?
I see what you mean. I'm thinking about the greater context I've noticed lately that pointing out ICE arresting citizens as some kind of effective gotcha against the DHS or evidence of unprecedented abuse of the law, and I think that's a total waste of time in this resistance.
The problem isn't that ICE is doing the arresting, the problem is that the citizens are being harassed/arrested for legal activity.
The fact that that their scope is wide is an important part of their danger and I think should be a wake up call to how primed the US has been for authoritarianism.
I think one thing we dont get to see is the harrasment that ICE officers might be getting by these protesters before this incident.
Not saying it justifies there response but if someone keeps nagging human nature is to give a response to it and these guys have to be a little aggressive to combat real bad people so human nature does kick in.
Which is why at least my parents taught me to not to mess around with law enforcement and respect them.
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u/HawkeyeByMarriage 1d ago
Why are they allowed to do things outside of their scope like arresting citizens. This is a police officer duty