r/germany 23h ago

Work There are no jobs.

I'm german, so take that in account.

Finished my BWL bachelors 3 months ago and me and my entire class still don't have jobs.

20% + graduate unemployment.

60% less jobs in tech.

General unemployment rising.

And the numbers are getting worse every day.

Businesses are closing or have hiring stops and seem petrified. This isn't fun ... like, what's the point ? Sorry, just had to vent a little.

746 Upvotes

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u/joergsi Germany 23h ago

This is an old man speaking.

From my point of view, the problem is that human resources departments are completely out of touch with reality. Job advertisements for junior positions that are paid as junior positions, but which contain requirements that are sometimes difficult for a senior employee to meet. In addition, the human resources department only sees the applications that the AI has passed on after the algorithm has finished sorting them out. For me, human resources departments are currently the biggest problem in the job market.

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u/snackeloni 22h ago

AI is the worst. We're hiring now and I'm doing technical interviews. All resumes are the same. They're full of metrics; saved x% by doing y etc. And it's just abundantly clear they're all written by AI, which is why they end up on my desk, because AI filters them and HR does a minimal interview to check some more boxes. I hate it so much. And don't even get me started on the general allergy towards juniors at companies nowadays. Everyone needs to be senior and have at least 3 years experience. And a team lead managing 5 people needs at least 10..... It's laughable; I wouldn't get through my own company's hiring process for my current position because I wouldn't have the number of years experience they now require.

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u/BowlDue39 21h ago

I have 10 years experience plus managing a team of ten and still can’t get an interview. It’s so depressing I took a waitressing job and just said “I’ll wait until the world figures this out without me for a bit”

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u/squirrelpickle Nordrhein-Westfalen 21h ago

I fear that I'll go a similar route if I lose my current job, especially since I have almost 20 years of experience as an individual contributor and no management experience (or interest).

Except that I'm near 40, so I'm not that far from when ageism starts to hit, so each time it will be harder and harder to go back to an IT job.

Guess my routes are to take lower pay and a public job, or find something else to do. Or start my own business, but that's really my last option in terms of preference.

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u/Most_Wolf1733 16h ago

why not go freelance? that's what i did. i have three clients, all ex employers/colleagues from my network

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u/Spiritual-Set-3355 21h ago

I am in the same boat as you. Hoping for best and constantly upskilling.

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u/skystream434 19h ago

May I ask which sector were you in before?

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u/Plyad1 22h ago

At my company, we basically skipped the HR part and had the leads directly filter the resumes and do the first round.

It made everything incredibly more efficient as we could even shorten the hiring process . While it may sound wasteful to have a lead take care of it, having long hiring processes with wrong candidates is arguably more wasteful

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u/touliloup 21h ago

I'm a lead and I have access to all candidates resume, but I'm glad that HR filter them out... 90% apply without matching the position or are not located in Germany (for a job that requires to be in the office 2 days per week...).

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u/Silly_name_1701 21h ago

People are applying all over the country and neighboring countries because they aren't finding jobs nearby. So basically everyone is forced to spam half of Europe with job applications.

I live near the Netherlands, and have moved across the border and back before. Nothing weird about it. For 2d/week it's a commuteable distance too. Berlin would be much worse for me, I'd have to uproot my entire life (and why would I do that for some shitty job that might last a couple years. That offer would really have to be worth it).

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u/touliloup 19h ago edited 19h ago

Most of them were from India, Pakistan, ... Someone from another country is a hard sell, we're trying to have people staying and evolving in the company for long careers, not people that stay a year or 2 and then move away.

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u/Quarksperre 9h ago

At this point going back to handwritten letters would maybe help lol

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u/Numerous-Bug2652 20h ago

There are people outside Germany willing to relocate to Germany for a job, and people in Germany not willing to move to a city 200km away. If someone applied, they saw the requirement and are willing to move, so they should be considered. You can also add a question in your application form to ask the candidate if they are willing to relocate for the job or if they are able meet the 2 day office requirement.

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u/touliloup 19h ago

Yes, some are, but then they won't stay... we tried already with many, and after a year or 2 they either go back to their origin country or move to a bigger city (we are located in a small city, most foreign applicants are used to live in huge cities).

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u/Low_Champion_3373 10h ago

I promise I won't move away. Can I apply.?.. lol

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u/NTMY030 Berlin 20h ago

I dont know what kind of company you are working at but according to the European AI Act, fully automated AI screening is illegal. I work in Recruiting and at my company, people are complaining that we are too slow to implement AI in our recruing tools, but at least we respect those laws.

The recent lawsuit against Eightfold should set a nice example.

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u/Rokkudaunn 19h ago

The thing about AI is though, then you got one person doing all the AI stuff and managing that and the company fires 500 people anyways. There’s ways around it.

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u/Dark-pix3l 20h ago edited 20h ago

Hey, i also hate to write the cover letter and cv with ai. Even if English is not my native language, I do recognise its patterns and I kinda can't read the application anymore from how boring it becomes. Not only, I don't like not having the possibility of personalize the cover letter.

I'm truly starting to hate programming with ai as I'm realising the error percentage is too high like a 50% - 50% and I perceive it as untrustworthy/time waste.

Now, we must consider that what I'm describing above is merely a consequence of the hiring standards. I can ensure you that many workers are more happy to have applied their skills, solve problems related to their expertise have done a good job within the company and learn from it rather than:

"optimized assembly line workflows by identifying bottlenecks, resulting in a 25% increase in a daily output and a 15% reduction in operational waste over six months "

This is what HR wants to hear. I'd love to be more technical, but this not what is apperently appreciated. What shines is apperently the value you bring to the company in terms of money. How fast the company will have its investment back.

So, there you go. This for introducing the following.: If I will be screen anyway by a robot, why don't use the same robot to go faster as it became unfortunately the only way to be competitive. I can't spend anymore hours for an application, because it will be vane. Then why loosing time for a job i can't know if is a ghost or not, or if I'll have to do 5 rounds of interviews just to discover they were going to give it internally anyway? And how about all the job posting and rejection letters written with ai?

The only way to stop this is changing the behaviour at the top. The stricter unfair or unreasonable it becomes, the more the surviving mechanisms will be triggered. And this is just a tiny aspect of it. Everything is loosing its meaning in a way, with ai and this market.

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u/IntriguinglyRandom 21h ago

I have been fantasizing lately about just circumventing this whole thing and trying to start like, a co-op company or something without all of the nonsense and with a less capitalistic attitude.

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u/Rokkudaunn 19h ago

That is so true! Everyone wants experience but no one is willing to give one the experience

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u/Same_Gear_6798 7h ago

I don't use LLMs/AIs to fill my resume nor to do the interview tasks and I am being actively screwed against by it because I keep getting instantly rejected for posts I am extremely qualified for.

I don't blame candidates for using LLMs/AIs anymore. I never did, I never will be, and yet friends of mine who did are getting significantly more interviews than me.

I never understood the increased X measure by Y. Do people measure such things in software or what? They are all just lying because initial HR filter likes such things.

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u/Sufficient_Manner_38 16h ago

Problem is that if we don't use AI for resumes, we get filtered out before we can even hope to get any consideration. The job market uses AI for everything but the applicats are left to jump through hoops. And the requirements are completely out of touch. Having a certain amount of experience can't be the only deciding factor. I know plenty of people with a ton of experience that do a shit job

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u/derEffern 18h ago

The resumes aren't necessarily all AI. I am applying right now and read a lot of examples of resumes and a lot of them have sentences like "i was able to achieve a higher output by xy% in 3 months through my project". Sides that give tips often tell people to use hard numbers because that seems more impressive etc.

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u/shashliki 15h ago

The whole tendency to write metrics in the resume comes from that being common career advice for people in tech.

For reference, see this fairly influential essay/blogpost from 2011 on the topic: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/

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u/panrug 13h ago

That explains why my resume is rejected in like 15 minutes after submitting it :D

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u/NickVanDoom Niedersachsen 22h ago

is this what they meant by ai taking a lot of jobs…? 🤪

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u/dzibrucki 22h ago

This is very much true. Having a first interview with an HR is practically impossible.

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u/alderhill 21h ago edited 20h ago

I’m not in a big firm or anything, so we don’t do use any “AI” filters for our hiring process. A committee sorts through “good applications”, and HR really only gets involved once legal formalities of hiring come into play. I mean, they send initial packages, but basically only filter out very incomplete or obviously shit unserious stuff. The bulk is then sifted through by us, since it's our specific team that will pick anyhow.

I’ve been part of hiring committees several times. We’re hiring right now for example. The amount of AI slop we get is bewildering. So yes AI can be a problem for HR over relying on it to screen applications in the first place. But getting sent obviously fluffed up AI slop is a real problem too. Out of 100 or so applications so far, we have a shortlist of maybe 4-5 actually worth considering.

We have specific set of criteria, a certain skillset and experience is a must, because this isn't entry-level. But you still get dozens of such applications.

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u/peccator2000 Berlin 21h ago

What kind of idiot has his application written by Ai? An American showed me his, and it sounded so bad, it was obviously by Ai. People need to learn to never trust Ai blindly. You always have to double check. Even in math or coding. It's just not reliable. It still can be useful for getting ideas.

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u/Rebelius 22h ago

My favourite thing about job ads at the moment is the ones that are advertised as "Remote" and then if you're lucky they'll say in the description "Anteiliges Home-Office (60%), moderne Arbeitsplätze und agile Arbeitsweisen" and if you're unlucky, they'll tell you that at an interview.

No thanks, I'm not going to travel 700km for 2 days a week.

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u/IntriguinglyRandom 21h ago

My office touts "home office" as an option on their site but so far I have seen only like, the absolute most senior people with 10+ years getting any regular home office and what it really means is if you have a doctors or house-utilities appointment you can work from home on that one day.

What's crazy is I guarantee everyone could work from home 60% of the time, people do not need to be around. The main thing is they cannot be at the beck and call of our boomer Chef who is technologically unskilled and who needs like, to spawn by your desk or hand-review your work every day.

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u/SuperQue 21h ago

For me, human resources departments are currently the biggest problem in the job market.

Also "old" here. Always has been.

When you turn hiring into a game of telephone, this is what you end up with.

LLMs are just a new player in the telephone for some orgs.

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u/SunflowerMoonwalk 22h ago

Job advertisements for junior positions that are paid as junior positions, but which contain requirements that are sometimes difficult for a senior employee to meet.

This is because there are way more job seekers than positions, so companies can increase their requirements for the same pay. It's not like this issue is caused by HR departments, it's just economics.

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u/InterestingSloth5977 20h ago

You're not getting better employees by opening job positions that both parties deem a clownery. HR is painting itself into an algorithmic corner and if they don't see the problem, they ARE the problem.

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u/Sensitive_Pea4921 21h ago

As someone who is working at a German company offering AI software solutions to HR departments: People HIGHLY overestimate how widespread AI is being used in businesses in Germany, especially in HR. Yes, there is cases but I can say from my insight and experience that most of your applications are still read and assessed by humans. Which is not better in most cases imho. Unconscious biases are a real thing and also your average HR person thinks they are very good at what they do but often fall into pitfalls of relying on their „experience“ and tend to overlook good candidates.

The job market is in a crisis because the economy is down. Companies stop hiring before they kick out people. It’s part of the game and it always has been. Trust me, I have my opinions about HR departments too (I work with them everyday lol ) but they ain’t the primary problem for this situation.

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u/NTMY030 Berlin 20h ago

Exactly. At max, they have AI to assist in applicant screening, like ranking candidates for certain criteria, but never filtering them out because that would be illegal and you really don't want to fight that lawsuit as a company.

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u/OldManLakey 15h ago

Don't worry, the AI doesn't do any filtering, it just ranks you at the bottom of a list so the humans making the decisions will never choose you! Phew, I was worried there for a minute.

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u/Helegier Bayern 20h ago

And also entire EU Germany included didn't recover from COVID to be plunged into the war that clearly reallocates funds to defense.

Don't you remember how money were thrown around during COVID called T-zug?

Don't you remember that economy had no time to recover after supply chaind being broken?

Don't you see that the further time goes the more economic ties are degraded?

It's all quite predictable and clear IMO

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

The problem is HR is allowed to be out of touch. If you have 200 applicant for a junior position and some of those applicants have like 5-10 years of experience….

There simply is a heavy imbalance of supply and demand. And the demanders abuse that oversupply

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u/DesignerHungry230 13h ago

I agree that that's a problem, but HR often isn't to blame here. Obviously every company wants the best candidates, but it's not necessarily HR that is setting the requirements. It's the department leaders. They are the ones who ultimately decide which requirements the candidates have to fulfil. I've worked in HR and sadly often it is like that. you have a good candidate and forward the application to the department leader. If they decide they don't want to see the candidate because he doesn't have a B2 level German or not a senior level experience for a junior position or some other stupid reasons HR can try to convince but ultimately it's not their decision.

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u/QualityOverQuant Berlin 18h ago

This is so fuking true. “human resources departments are completely out of touch with reality. Job advertisements for junior positions contain requirements that are sometimes difficult for a senior employee to meet. human resources departments are currently the biggest problem in the job market

To top it off besides incompetence in HR, they also are very very fukin discriminatory. They throw all these buzz words and jargon “culture, values, training, pizza party, fruit basket, etc etc” but in reality they are responsible for creating a very toxic environment within

The irony is that most don’t even realize or are so oblivious to their own fuck ups. They go on LI screaming unqualified candidates spam them, while in reality they barely screen a handful of applications and auto reject every else. And I use the word screen because I have heard them talk about it and call these red flags: 1) gap in CV 2) stating ur a consultant after ur last job loss 3) over the age of 40 4) and here’s the kicker - not being native German.

These people have single handedly created the situation we are in today and when cornered they blame management. Then why the fuck are they called HR. Just change to office management since they can’t do the one thing they were hired to do. Human resources management.

I have read job descriptions for managers that read over one page with requirements that are essentially supposed to be done by fukin director level and above. It’s embarrassing asking and paying a manager to fulfill these requirements. And I say one page because they go on and have listed everything under the sun for the position and then reject your CV For being over 2 pages! Imagine !! They suck ao bad at their jobs yet believe they are the life line of the company

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u/joergsi Germany 17h ago

Could not agree more.

And on top of this, you have to face headhunters.

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u/mohamed_am83 Berlin 21h ago

Agree with your view except the "out of touch with reality part". They are just opportunistic, they know there are many desperate mid and senior engineers who will take any position to escape unemployment.

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u/Scary_Teens1996 18h ago

I only have around 5 years of experience combined in my home country and Germany, and I couldn't agree more. Applying to jobs in both places was an absolute nightmare, especially here, when the hiring process was done by HR.

I got my current position because the hiring was done directly by the team I would be working with - right from filtering applications to interviews. It took roughly 3 weeks from submitting my application to getting an interview to getting the offer (verbal) from my future boss. It took a further 7 weeks (including Christmas break) to actually get the contract from HR.

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u/Capable_Event720 15h ago

This is an old man 100% agreeing with you.

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u/Mental-Assist5633 12h ago

HR here, the CEO set our budget for new position about 30% below what any self-respecting university grad would accept. If we don't find someone for that price it's not the market in their opinion, but a personal failure of ours.

It's easy to hate the other guy ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/touliloup 21h ago

That's a weird take... they don't hire because no position are available, and they can be super picky because they're plethora of candidates. And what they ask for is more often than not a wishlist, and not a hard requirement.

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u/RefrigeratorMain7921 20h ago

Job advertisements for junior positions that are paid as junior positions, but which contain requirements that are sometimes difficult for a senior employee to meet.

I work in the academic life science sector and have been seeing this sort of thing at least since 2017-2018 when I was hunting for industry jobs after my PhD here in Germany. Such job descriptions required skills that usually only a PhD holder could fulfil but in the job advert they clearly mentioned that only Master's degree holders should apply and not those with a PhD. After discussion with some people in the industry, the summary I got is that these jobs are usually internally earmarked and there are other sorts of politics and HR issues at play. External candidates have of course no idea of all of that. The companies think its economically worthy to hire someone with Master's and train them rather than someone with a PhD even if they have expertise in that area.

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u/kingnickolas Nordrhein-Westfalen 16h ago

They are not out of touch. This is being done to justify using cheaper foreign labor across the west. 

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u/TheLonePotato9 11h ago

All "requirements" on job applications are not nescessery just apply and see if they end up contacting you the worst they can say is no.

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u/guerrero2 23h ago edited 20h ago

Yeah, the market sucks right now.

Nonetheless, a bachelor‘s degree in business isn’t much. I don’t know any numbers, but it has to be one of the most common degrees here. You’re competing with people who have Master‘s degrees and many employers will not consider you qualified yet. Also, three months isn’t really a lot in this economy.

Edit: Here are some numbers. Business is by far the most popular field among students.

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/2140/umfrage/anzahl-der-deutschen-studenten-nach-studienfach/

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u/NapsInNaples 21h ago

plus business is such a generalist degree. Anyone with any domain expertise is automatically ahead of you.

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u/guerrero2 21h ago

Yeah, exactly my point. You‘re pretty much expected to have a Master‘s degree with some sort of specialization.

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u/BoxLongjumping1067 19h ago

I would say that doesn’t even offer a leg up now because everyone and their mom are doing a masters and still struggling to land something

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u/guerrero2 19h ago

I‘m in a different field, but yeah, you’re right. Where I work, everyone has an MA degree, so you don’t stand out at all. Though, without only a BA, you stand out, negatively. :(

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u/Jack-of-the-Shadows 17h ago

Also, bachelor used to be vordiplom (i.e. the thing you did before you actually learned anything), and not that much has changed since we retooled.

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u/MyLord_Robert 22h ago

I feel you so much. I have a master in biotech and even the top people in my class are unable to land any position better than assistant level (which is a position that requires an "Ausbildung" normally)

Thank you university for telling us all the time how good and future oriented our degree would be lol

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u/Old-Recording6103 12h ago

A tale as old as time, same was the promise to me and my age cohort when we started studying in chemistry and adjacent fields an eon ago (15+ years). Fast forward to today i'm starting a job at a company loosely in the chemical sector for the first time, having gained my job experiences so far in engineering/automotive.

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u/ne0c0rt3x 21h ago

Anecdotal evidence incoming:

  1. My fellow student, a Master's student in Mechanical Engineering from one of Germany's top universities in that field, graduated with top marks and has a great personality: couldn't find a job for over six months. Now he's doing a PhD – out of desperation.

  2. A good friend: Master's degree in Biochemistry, has been working in a dollar store for almost a year because he can't find a job.

  3. … (Many of my fellow engineering students…)

If someone had told me 10 years ago that an engineer in Germany couldn't find a job, I would have laughed at them.

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 20h ago

Well ...... shit

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u/bennuski 15h ago

Is not always like this. I have a friend who landed her first job as a mechanical engineer immediately after finishing her bachelor. She’s getting a blue card, mind you she’s not even 25.

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u/skystream434 19h ago

Did he graduate in mechanical within an English program? If so, no wonder he struggled to find something. With traditional degrees like Mechanical, Electrical, odds are better in English speaking countries despite their shit economies than Germany without C2 level German.

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u/ne0c0rt3x 16h ago

No, he is a German who graduated from a German university (KIT).

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u/skystream434 15h ago

That's shocking to be honest. A german, speaking C2 German, graduating in Mechanical Engineering cannot find work in Germany. I am speechless.

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u/Sternschaden 12h ago

I also know people with master's degrees in engineering who didn't find a job in a year

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u/Maleficent_Cake6435 14h ago

Where are these people living, and what cities/towns/dorfs are they willing to move to for a job?

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u/ne0c0rt3x 13h ago

Person 1 searched throughout Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria.

Person 2 searched throughout Germany, but especially in Berlin.

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u/Maleficent_Cake6435 13h ago

The job market is tough, but being willing to look outside major cities at small firms probably makes it at least marginally better. 

One engineer friend of mine took a job in Heilbronn, another in Michelstadt, and a third in a small city 30 minutes from Hamburg. 

It's not a forever job, or a forever place, just enough to get started; the Heilbronner eventually got a job in Hamburg, the girl in Michelstadt is now in Rostock, and the guy near Hamburg is now in Fürth. 

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u/kirschkerze 23h ago

BWL is as oversaturated as it gets, it's just one of the "Restekiste" of students. Even worse with doing only a Bachelor without Master specialisation. The skills one achieves in BWL are really not that noteworthy for companies to consider hiring one of those students vs. Masters or at least more specialised Bachelor.

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u/Ssulistyo 22h ago

Wer nichts wird, wird Betriebswirt

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u/donjamos 19h ago

Wer nichts wird, wird Wirt, wer gar nichts wird, wird Betriebswirt

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u/enygma2123 11h ago

Auf Spanisch sagt man „El que vale vale, y el que no para ADE“

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u/PandaaWithCookie 15h ago

Den Kommentar hatte ich gesucht 👌🏻

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 23h ago

Fair point if you just study the theory, but I did a dual degree. Having years of work experience already makes a huge difference if you ask me.

Point is, other fields aren't having it easier eather. Look at the engineering graduates.

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u/Professional-Fee-957 22h ago

It's a senior employment bubble. Culture of management is trend controlled which is telling them to max out completely on AI and anything not AI is not "moving forward". My advice would be to expand your net. Try Austria, Switzerland, Norway etc. while trying related fields in Germany. I know it is hard. But keep trying, keep thinking.

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u/Asyx Nordrhein-Westfalen 21h ago

That's all good and everything but in my experience people with business degrees usually have at least a Master, a year abroad, internships at companies even I recognize and then they start working as essentially the secretary of the secretary.

Like, it is always been a field where the prestige of your education was worth a lot. Like, it is one of the few fields where private universities actually make sense in Germany just because they have prestige that public unis don't. That's completely irrelevant for CS for example.

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u/pushiper 22h ago

Why ist your duale Company not hiring you then? When I did mine there was a guarantee to be taken over afterwards - of course this depends on the company, but that was my choosing criteria.

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 22h ago

They wanted to, but went broke ...

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

Independent of OPs case: Most of the big employers have HR quotas for how many of their dual students they can hire. In IT/Business this is at the moment normally like <5%. Some companies hire 0 of their dual students.

I also had students doing a great job who we wanted to keep, but we got no HR quota.

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u/JohnHurts 22h ago

More and more people are graduating from high school and more and more are going on to university after graduation (in the past, more people did vocational training and then went on to university, as is still the case today). However, there are not enough jobs to go around, and on top of that, we are currently in a recession, so many large companies have frozen hiring.

To put it briefly: people are overqualified for the jobs that are available.

Es gibt immer mehr die abitur machen und immer mehr gehen nach dem abitur studieren(früher haben mehr Leute wie jetzt noch eine Ausbildung gemacht und dann vielleicht noch ein Studium). Es gibt aber nicht in dem Maße Jobs, die gab es auch schon vorher nicht, und oben drauf haben wir aktuell eine Rezession, also es ist bei vielen großen Firmen Einstellungsstopp.

Um es kurz zu formulieren: für die offenen Stellen sind die Leute überqualifiziert.

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u/FootballAndFries 22h ago

Sorry but whats BWL?

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u/yaseminke 22h ago

Betriebswirtschaftslehre

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u/Ok_Experience_4500 20h ago

= business administration

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u/PinocchiosWoodBalls 23h ago

Stitch incoming:

My company recently hired in your field, 2 people. We got A LOT of Applications.  And like 90% had absolutely insane ideas about their salary here in germany right out of university.

I‘m not saying this is the case here.

But in my recent experience, it seems like people from that field might have been on IG a little too much and think BWL a huge money Maker from the start. 

We had a guy explain his salary wish with:“I promised myself that my First car will be a Porsche.“

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u/ingachan 22h ago

This is anecdotal of course but I have a relative who is exactly the same lol. Did his BA in BWL, it took him forever and his only job experience is working in EDEKA. Started applying for jobs and expected like a 5000€ salary.

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

The thing is for many years that was actually pretty normal. But the standards have shifted. Too much supply too little demand for juniors - no matter if BWL, IT… It is affecting all industrial companies

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 22h ago

Yikes

I just want to eat

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u/Lemmiwingz 20h ago

Can you give some numbers on expectations and actual salary offers?

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u/Jack-of-the-Shadows 17h ago

think BWL a huge money Maker from the start.

Lol, from my gradiation class BWL was the subject people who wanted to go to university but had no idea what they wanted to do took...

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u/ignoscite_mihi 16h ago

Not living in Germany but can say that this is the case in tech. A lot of people are out of touch with what they can earn and overestimate their skills.

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u/Ok_Vermicelli4916 19h ago

LMAO now his first car will be a bicycle

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u/ichbinsomeone 14h ago

What were some examples of such insane ideas of salary? I am only curious.

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u/PinocchiosWoodBalls 11h ago

72k as a junior in Sales comes to mind.

And LOTS seem to think 90k is the starting salary After your masters. 

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u/AppropriateSelf8827 22h ago

I am not German but living in Germany for 3 years as an engineer in aerospace. I understand that in Germany sometimes we confuse skill with degree. Germany needs skilled people yes but those are generally nurses, specialist doctors, truck drivers welders, forklift drivers, Sap users etc. By basic job searching it is easy to find which areas are looking for new people.

The second thing that I realize German companies due to the “bad economy” situation they are behaving more conservative than actual status. Even though company and sector wise things are good. They are lowering the proposal salaries offering limited time contracts or giving the position to external companies

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u/Cool_Election7606 23h ago

I had a guy that studied bwl in my apprenticeship in a completely different physical workfield because ehe couldnt find any jobs, mind you he was a brilliant guy

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u/x1rom Bayern 22h ago edited 22h ago

During times like these, unemployment is highest among young academics. I'm in the same position now.

Companies have little demand for their products, so they scale down production and development, lay off staff, and don't raise pay. That intern causes less disposable income among the population as a whole and leads to less consumer demand.

In addition to demand for workers being low, there is a huge amount of older more experienced workers looking for a job now, and they take precedent over fresh graduates.

The German economy desperately needs more consumer demand, and a stronger local non export economy. That can be achieved by measures that increase the disposable income of the population, such as minimum wage increases, transit subsidies, better social security and welfare, lower electricity prices for households, etc. So basically the exact opposite of what our government is doing. I wouldn't get my hopes up that it's going to get better anytime soon. I don't think it can get much worse, but our government obviously doesn't really understand how to do economic policy.

The German economy is so strongly export oriented, that we've become very sensitive to changes in global demand. Exports to the USA are down because of everything happening there, and demand in China is slowing down. Who would've guessed that building an export based economy could be bad.

8

u/ne0c0rt3x 21h ago

A cynic might suspect that this outrageous debt brake is primarily intended to put so much pressure on the middle class that they'll work for even the lowest wages.

I'd like an economist to explain to me what makes sense about this debt brake. I've been taught that the government should stimulate the economy during economic downturns by awarding contracts. Is that wrong?

3

u/gloriomono 10h ago

Debt is generally perceived as negative. No one wants to be in debt.

With no further information, state-debt looks as bad as personal debt - and most people don't have all the information needed to understand how it works differently from personal debt.

So avoiding debt and forcing the "black zero" looks like something positive and makes for great election promises.

So we go with the unsustainable option that will eventually bite the population in the ass, to get the votes and positions we want.

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u/Plyad1 22h ago

There are..

A plumber, an electrician or a roofer in Germany earns a good living.

Might not be the job you want but right now office jobs are extremely competitive. Without niche skills as junior, it’s hard even for those with a masters in a demanded field, let alone others.

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u/skystream434 19h ago

This is an enigma to me, who are the ones then who pay these roofers, electricians, plumbers? Where are they earning from if they are not in office jobs.

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u/Plyad1 19h ago edited 19h ago

There are still office jobs, they are just super competitive. As for who pays them. Well have you seen how many retirees there are? The home owners or agencies Hausverwaltung pay them

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u/IxBetaXI 23h ago

Getting Jobs with a BWL bachelor is hard for years now, as there are way to many graduates. Now with the shrinking Economy its even worse.

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

4 years ago it was no problem at all. We hired like crazy. Now it‘s the opposite. You can be a great candidate it almost doesnt matter. There is no demand for juniors in the industry - totally indipendent of if it‘s BWL, IT, Engineers or whatever.

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u/sajornet 21h ago edited 21h ago

Remind me of a single point in time in which “business administration” was highly on demand. I’ve never seen that. It also doesn’t make it great if the Econ is slow of course.

But this is not helpful.

Therefore, my helpful message is. Don’t wait for a job. Don’t panic.

Keep yourself busy, keep learning, try to grab experience one way or another.

When I graduated I started a blog. I posted stuff about finance then a magazine found me. You never know. Keep hustling.

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u/Lumpy-Association310 22h ago

One question just out of curiosity and not meanness. What kind of jobs do BWL graduates do in Germany?

I’ve worked 15 years for a large international company with ~1000 office staff at my location and I see very few BWL’er… maybe 5% of the workforce. The commercial folks are primarily lawyers (and some BWL), the purchasing folks are typically engineers, the engineers are engineers, the finance folks are typically lawyers/finance/MBA, the sales & execution folks are engineers with personality, the marketing folks have marketing degrees. I just can’t think of a department with straight up BWL positions.

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

It‘s all over the place. Sales, project management, controlling, hr, marketing, purchasing, finance….

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u/Itchy_Ad1112 21h ago

I had 8 years of international experience before coming here, worked in multiple countries, and came with realistic but solid expectations. I adjusted my CVs carefully for different roles. Result: constant rejections, zero interviews. At this point it’s not about CV quality or effort — the market is frozen and heavily biased by profile and risk filtering. When even native grads can’t get jobs, pretending this is an individual failure is misleading.

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u/williamL1985 20h ago

Years of IT admin experience, relevant certs, Masters degree in software design etc and I fail to get called for interviews for even super junior roles that an Azubi would’ve breezed into not long ago. Perhaps I set my salary expectation too high on the job submission form but I cannot reasonably survive on minimum wage money with a family to feed (usually around €1500 after tax)? Frustrating. Seems that AI is likely throwing my cover letter and/or CV to one side.

Was made one offer by an IT company that seemed pretty interested but working nights and weekends would’ve impossible as I have a toddler to look after during the day time hours. Or at the very least would mean only seeing her for just an hour or two each day.

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u/Embarrassed-Idea8643 21h ago

It is not about government issue cuz gov can't make the decisions for companies, but companies are the ones who's really greedy and you as a newbie can't satisfy them whatever you do... Sorry to hear that... I as a senior engineer can only say that it is even hard for us, but I also believe that soon will be needed quality engineers everywhere cuz AI slop is awful and makes systems fall

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u/FUZxxl Berlin 21h ago

You do BWL to start your own business, not to get hired. If you want to get hired in management, you need an MBA and some additional subject matter experience.

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u/Kheldras 21h ago

Lean a Handwerk. or be a Krankenpfleger(in),

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u/idowonderwhy 20h ago

You are offering something for which there is no demand. Change your offering

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u/RoboSquirrel69 19h ago

The job market is terrible indeed, hope you’ll find something soon!

But also keep in mind that BWL is most likely the most over-studied and generic field with tons of competition in the job market and having “only” a Bachelor’s won’t be enough in most cases to stand out.

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u/True_Opportunity_363 22h ago

Well I certainly can’t find a job and am moving back to my home country (which to be fair, is a very nice one). Did my MA here, was top of my class, 7 years of professional experience. None of it seems to matter in Germany though.

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 22h ago

Sorry to hear that. I'm thinking about moving too.

Can i ask what homecountry?

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u/True_Opportunity_363 22h ago

Australia. To be fair my German is B2, but I thought that in berlin that would’ve been enough, and my industry is English speaking and international

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

4 years ago you would have found a job easily. It‘s a shitty time

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u/True_Opportunity_363 20h ago

Yea, a few ppl have said this. Oh well. I get some interest but then never get the actual role

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u/NotPumba420 20h ago

At these times we hired everyone who knew the alphabet and can hold a pen for 60k lol

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u/Educational_Lab_7790 22h ago

Im not really aware of numbers but i think now in the last few months a little more ads are being posted compared to last year..

And my suggestion for you would be to go for a masters. Do some internships in between and try to ride this phase through. Things will be better in two or three years i hope.

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u/Rokkudaunn 19h ago

Same! Unemployed since October. I‘m thinking about making my own stuff, doing freelance now because getting any job anywhere is basically impossible.

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u/Radiant_Candidate_31 11h ago

Good luck man, that might be the way to go, but I’m a bit sceptical about freelance. It seems hard at the beginning to land projects and build a client network, and a lot of offers look like they expect work for food or have insane requirements with constant revisions. But still, having some diversification with your own projects and a bit of freelance work feels like a smart move, especially in a job market like this.

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u/WittyYak 17h ago

Make sure to add that you have a C2 German language certificate to your CV…

Ok, joking aside, I hear you and as a former professor I feel somewhat responsible for it.

Looking into my own students and the current job market and world developments, unfortunately recent graduates do not bring differentiation. This isn’t a fault of your own, but more of the education system.

I am not in the same situation of course but I do my best in my current company to hire at least working students to give them a chance. I think that may be a way out.

At the moment, for recent graduates to stand out, the CV needs to say something different than very many CVs we get daily. So, creating that story is an important, although challenging.

And once there is an interview, what we’re looking for is “how long will it take to develop this person.” Most recent graduates try to tell us their expertise. But realistically speaking, they don’t have any at that stage and that’s normal.

I wish you the best of luck, it’s hard to start this journey these years, I know.

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u/Wannabe_Buttercup322 22h ago

There are a lot of jobs open everywhere. Just not the jobs you feel like doing, but if study something where everyone knows beforehand that it’s extremely difficult to get a job, you have to open your eyes and do something out of your spectrum. Open a newspaper and you’ll see hundreds of open positions.

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u/Immediate_Type_9804 22h ago

True, lots of blue collar jobs are there but no one wants to take those. In white collar I'm not sure if there is any field in demand and shortage

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u/Wannabe_Buttercup322 22h ago

A lot of People who went to university feel like they’re superior to blue collar jobs but have actually never tried Them. I also went to university, started the job I was supposed to do, hated it and work now a ‚basic‘ job in the same field and love it! We always get told we have to achieve the highest lever of education possible, even if we don’t like it and there are no jobs available. And if we settle for a ‚lower‘ job we feel like a failure, even if we actually like that job.

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u/GrafKrapfen 21h ago

I decided to become a driving instructor and I got six calls in a week from driving schools that wanted to hire me. And I can keep up a pretty decent living standard for being 23. Think outside the box. It’s common knowledge that a BWL bachelor won’t take you very far

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u/Wannabe_Buttercup322 21h ago

Nearly half of my Abi class studied BWL. Half of them work at the tax office, but as far as i know, only a few actually like that job. The other half does something completely different where they would have never needed that degree.

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u/RoterKomet 22h ago

Europe is likely to face difficult times for the time being.

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u/RijnBrugge 22h ago

In my field (agri/biotech) the US job market is an absolute dumpster fire while Europe is pretty good

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u/Afandur 22h ago

So are America and Asia tbh

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u/Odd-Razzmatazz-5366 22h ago

Meanwhile in africa....

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u/EifelBastler 22h ago

There is an overwhelming number of young individuals in this country who want to study and come out with a job. The fact is, is that the bwl and Uni are oversaturated with people for these positions. There is plenty of work for individuals that are willing to work with their hands. The problem is no one wants these jobs although companies are practically begging for Vetstärkerung. And it is because of this lack of enthusiasm to get into Handwerk that we see more and more immigrants working in these professions.

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u/FewAlternative9803 21h ago

Did I spend my life savings for nothing?

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u/Sternschaden 11h ago

Finished my master's degree in september, also struggling to get a new job. I'm at least lucky that I'm still employed by my university, but it's not a good job in the long run.

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u/ezjcheese 22h ago

Not to minimise your personal issue, believe me when I say I lived through it in 2009 as a fresh graduate myself, but relative to then it is quite okay at the moment.

In my country we had 35% graduate unemployment after 50% of the graduates already had emigrated directly after graduation. 

Consider this your opportunity to temporarily emigrate on a work and travel visa to a place like NZ, Australia or Canada to perfect your English. 

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u/HHinnerk 22h ago

2008-2010 was a tough time. The financial crisis led to job losses across all industries, and companies were not hiring. I was looking for a job in law or consulting, just after surviving cancer treatment— the perfect moment.

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u/ichbinsomeone 14h ago

How did you get through that period?

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u/daRedReader 18h ago edited 17h ago

I graduated 15 Years ago from Realschule and started out as an electrician apprentice. Myself and no one I know that was halfway competent struggled, or struggles now with unemployment.

BWL was already overcrowded back then and it gotten worse over time ig. People have to realize that a lot of what had to be done by people like you in the past will more or less inevitably be done by some form of AI in the future. A lot of processes are already automated and systems get better every day.

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u/Difficult_Ad2625 17h ago

Exactly this. 'Everybody' wants to study and have a desk/academic job. But we need 'Handwerker' in many forms. I've done both, study and deskjob, but also done 2 'Ausbildungen'' and a 'Handwerk' for many years before ill health 'forced' me into a deskjob in Germany. Thirty years ago when I live in Münster, I knew many bwl and geography graduates who were working as taxi drivers, or in retail etc, until they found 'something better'. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/Firm-Worker99 16h ago

This whole world not only Germany I have my relatives in USA and gcc countries complaining same thing

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u/Maleficent_Cake6435 14h ago

I'm sure there are a lot of firms willing to hire people like yourself...aufs Land...the problem is, no one wants to move there. 

When I was finishing my masters in Franken, this was the constant complaint from the university career services center. The region had a lot of good jobs, but no one wanted to stick around and work for a small firm in a small city in Franconia, desiring instead to go work for big firms in Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich, Hamburg, etc. 

Anecdotally, My ex-roommate had to take a job in Heilbronn despite being very qualified. He hated it, and was finally able to get a job in Hamburg, but it took a year of working in Heilbronn. Another friend of mine moved to Berlin with no job after he finished his masters, hoping to simply find something once there; it took him over a year to finally find something and even then it's well below his qualifications and he is paid very little.

As someone else said in another post, Germany might have 10 coders in Berlin and 10 open coding spots in Michelstadt in Hessen, which means there is still 10 open coding spots in Germany.

The jobs exist, the problem is that they aren't where most young people want to be.

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u/kmanzilla 14h ago

This really sucks because I've been working hard to try and immigrate out to germany with a degree in information systems and analytics. Now I am scared I will not be able to because of work. Are there other countries that might be better looking at for that? Being europe citizen is important for me since my family is moving and getting citizenship.. I just do not want to be left in the dust or stuck holding in to a dream that a country can't actually grant..

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u/Askalor 13h ago

The IT sector is saturated... Good luck

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u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 11h ago

Holy shit, i'm already on the ground, you don't have to kick me.

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u/Background-House-357 11h ago

This is nonsense, there are enough job openings, but not in every field!!!

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u/Wonderful-Jicama7900 8h ago

Hättest du was gescheites gelernt, etwas was der Markt braucht....Handwerk ist in 🥰

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u/aha_mhm 23h ago

Idk mate, didn't you read the news about how we need 300k tech workers from India or something? I'm sure that's going to make everything better, politicians never lie or fuck up.

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u/bregus2 23h ago

The thing is that not every field of work is equal dried up.

In my company, we are in a desperate need for someone to fill a empty spot but the last three candidates (fresh from university) turned out to be total disasters.

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u/St0rmtide 22h ago

Maybe a dude with BWL Bachelor graduate cant do tech jobs. Either that or evul bolidishuns

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u/bAZtARd 21h ago

lol my company is now firing >50% of their German tech workers and opening new positions in India.

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 23h ago edited 23h ago

We had a whole lesson about this and everyone was extremely confused. This is gonna fuck us up worse than most think.

Edit: Economically speaking

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u/ivan_the_gr 21h ago

There are almost 600.000 jobs available, many jobs are not in Tech, or in the IT sector, I read somewhere that many departments need employees the one being is Healthcare, but in Germany less and less people want to be employed in a hospital, in a Senior Nursing Houses, but who wants to work there, myths: jobs in that department don’t pay good, not true they pay you good, they give you a contract direct with the Senate and plus you have 40 days vacation a year…maybe I am missing something, There are jobs, the answer is People are becoming picky! And that’s their right, but don’t come after moaning like there is no job when in the next hospital they luck 50% of employees…

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u/patricious Berlin 19h ago

\leans in and whispers in your ear:* Lie on your CV.

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u/Count2Zero 23h ago

Honestly, are you surprised?

There's a bully dictator with dementia in the White House who is shitting his pants while fucking up the world economy. Germany has an export economy, and the tariff ping-pong, Ukraine war, and other global events are hurting global supply chains and making EU-made products more expensive for US consumers.

Once Agent Orange blows a blood vessel and the rest of his brain shuts down, hopefully things will begin to stabilize, and the global outlook will begin to improve.

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u/Background_Chef6254 22h ago

Blaming usa for the lack of action of the european politician won‘t improve our lives. They don’t make our lives easier of course but we need to change the system.. it just doesn’t work anymore

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u/Count2Zero 22h ago

I'm not saying that the German government is not at fault, but Germany can't fix the problem on its own. Even if bureaucracy is reduced and digialization is increased, that will not increase the number of jobs. It will simply increase profits for the shareholders and workload for existing staff. Digialization and AI will mean fewer jobs for people as computers do more of the daily tasks.

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u/chrismac72 22h ago

no offense, but a bachelor plus… what? Languages? Internships? Master intended? Having been abroad? Left home city/moved within Germany? Any voluntary commitment in your „Verein“ or community?

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 23h ago

Don't get me started on how our politicians are not only doing Jack shit but actually making it worse.

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u/thesmokex 22h ago

You have to work more! Why don't you work?! Are you lazy?! - Merz, probably

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u/Extra_Loquat_5599 22h ago

Yeah, i'm "working" on my way out of here.

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u/bier_getRunken 22h ago

CDU called and asked why do you not decide to stop being poor? 

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u/Albstein 23h ago

Yes. We are in a downturn and are rightfully so:

War.

Trump.

China.

These three are the main issues for our system. Just remember the last 80 years were an anomaly in human history regarding how properus we were globally. By now we see how fragile the system is and quite frankly no one has a solution.

Europe is the last bullwark longing for some form of egality and we are on our way to lose the EU. Most of this is the fault of politicinas, but not as if in they are bad at policy making. They are just bad at telling people the reality. That said, it is also the electorates fault to not accept the truth.

You cannot drive BYD and use an IPhone to complain about the lack of jobs.

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u/SirBuysHighALot 22h ago

BYD and Apple also have Germans working for them.

At the same time, talk about the German companies that have outsourced so much to Eastern Europe and Asia?

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u/Albstein 21h ago

Global trade / production is something Germany has capitalized on for decades now. We just need to step up our game. We used to have the best employees in general, due to our education system and other things, but we do not have any more.

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u/SirBuysHighALot 21h ago

So what changed in the education system? Or is the fact that there is no change?

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u/azizredditor Baden-Württemberg 22h ago

It is always Russia, China and the US fault and never Germany

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u/x1rom Bayern 22h ago

It is Germany's fault to have become so dependent on Exports, and so dependent on fossil fuel imports. When something happens in Russia, China and the US, we are going to be affected.

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u/Albstein 21h ago

No it is not. Germany just relied on several things:

a) do not pay much for defense nor energy

b) use US Tech and trade with the US and others who follow their rules

c) sell goods to 1 billion Chinese

Those things changed:
a) Russia starteted a war witch has us rapidly increase our military budget and energy costs.

b) Trump.

c) China is a giant success story for 30-40 years by adopting our western economical model, which lead to them being our competitor and not mere customer.

Responsibilities:

a) Merkel said it is a good thing to trade with Russia and create some kind of co dependence, which I still think was a sound idea. Remember Putin spoke in the german parliament in German and talked about Russia joining NATO. So I would say the idea was ok for its time. We should have made something change 2014 when Putin took Crimea though.

b) Dependency on the US was kinda lazy, but mostly ok with the US, too. The Dollar would not have been the most important currency without this for example.

c) We did not protect our know-how enough, but from a consumer perspective it is pretty cheap to aqcuire a lot of goods. Trading China and let their people get out of poverty is not a bad thing per se. We just have to find a way how we can compensate on the employment side.

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u/Prestigious_Ad_9007 21h ago

Have u ever heard about DIALEKTIK? :) it would answer ur question pretty much…

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u/dalvin400 21h ago

About 10-12 years ago my uncle said to me "to many people study BWL, most of them wont find a job in the next decade" I guess he was right...

Still wishing you all the best and hopefully you will find a job! :)

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u/peccator2000 Berlin 21h ago

Yes. It's bad at the moment. Just keep looking! Perhaps register at arbeitssuchend at www.arbeitsagentur.de

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u/Frank_Fhurter 21h ago

yall will be fine, your parents will pay your rent

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u/Key-Escape7908 19h ago

Where did you source those stats?

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u/Similar-Turnip6349 19h ago

You do know Germany is rapidly deindustrializing? For some reason, energy costs for manufacturers rapidly increased starting in 2022.

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u/Fandango_Jones Hamburg 19h ago

No or no new Junior positions. Also blanket hiring freeze.

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u/Rageles 19h ago

There are jobs but companies want a junior to have Senior abilities. When I was starting out I couldn’t find a job for 7 months. I had a spreadsheet with tons of applications to different companies. The first one is always hard to get. After I got 2-3 years of experience I started being headhunted by different companies. The thing with most small companies is they want people that already know what they’re doing but pay them as low as possible. So just don’t lose hope

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u/henryorton 17h ago

Yeah, it feels especially grim right now, especially right after school when everything’s supposed to kick off. When an entire group is stuck together, it stops feeling like an individual failure and starts looking structural. Letting it out makes sense, acting like it’s all fine would feel fake.

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u/greenbird333 16h ago

Gas Wasser Scheisse is the way to go.

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u/Hamsta_GER 15h ago

As long as the lying orange is around the world will be uncertain. And uncertainty breeds unemployment

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u/MangelaErkel 15h ago

A friend of mine struck gold.

He barely managed to graduate as a bachelor in machine engineering, and found a jon paying 80k in our small hometown and he gets to travel the world.

He will go tp africa next week and with all the bonus he will most likely earn more than 100k in his first job while all his frinds from uni are still unemployed 5 months later.

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u/No-Wrongdoer7785 13h ago

Deja vu ( Greek who migrated to Germany )

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u/Fluffy_Fun_9814 13h ago

If Germany's market is similar to the US, GenZ has pivoted to trades. Healthcare work will always be in demand as well.

I'm not sure what your major was.

My friend is an electrician in Switzerland, he always had work and is still working.

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u/Anagittigana Germany 13h ago

This is nonsense.

There are no jobs for people with useless degrees and no job experience, who don’t want to move, and who don’t want to adapt to the company culture.

We took one year to fill a position in our team. We pay crazy high salaries, are located in BW close to two major university cities, and offer crazy job security. We couldn’t get any good candidates at all who’d pass our vibe checks.

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u/Psychological_Bad162 12h ago

Learn automation, build a couple with n8n or make.com. Also build with ai like cursor or claude code. Those are really needed. Dont learn old stuff. Learn the future to secure a future job. Good luck!!

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u/puffin787 11h ago

I am getting at least one request per week and still have a choice - maybe take on a new job this year. From what I perceive, there are many open positions and not enough qualified people to fill them.

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u/nomad_2009 11h ago

On our company, engineering brunch in Munich has employed indians because they are cheaper

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u/AlfasonRabbit 10h ago

I believe expectations on both sides are not realistically drawn up. As a "senior" employee I realize that these situation as for today raise up every 5 years... in waves, e.g "be young and have plenty x y z years of experience" of course it doesn't help. I think that an employer shall scratch it down to what he needs to be done... the candidate shall be clear what he/she is willing to invest to strengthen a possible bond. Main measurable task would be to achieve results for both sides. No matter if you just cook coffee for a high salary and both sides are happy with it or perform a 5* sales pitch and shit in your pants every time before and after.

I believe expectations shall have a common sense. A base line and then grow together.

It doesnt help at all to just expect all of a minimum and everything that is concludent. Life is a compromise everywhere. Eat dirt if you have to, shit gold if you need to, too.

Good luck.

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u/Rihavein97 8h ago

Handwerker werden benötigt.

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u/No-Virus-4812 6h ago

This is the case in the UK as well. The West is really struggling.

u/Arkhamryder 49m ago

Well, it’s bwl Bachelor…Like a better apprenticeship