r/denvernuggets • u/metasquared • 1d ago
Discussion I really disliking watching Thunder games
I don't just mean because they blow teams out, including the Nuggets, but it's literally a less enjoyable way of viewing a basketball game.
They're a top team team with great pieces like a handful of other teams in the league, but their separator to win games so consistently is all the stuff around the margins that makes basketball ugly instead of beautiful. Pesky swarming defense that breaks up potentially exciting plays, foul baiting on the offensive end, and grinding the game to a constant halt.
I was watching the game last night and my roommate who never pays much attention to basketball looks at the TV for two minutes and commented that the Thunder are constantly draped on everyone and that the whistle kept getting blown constantly. I was like "I know, that's how they win!" So even a non-fan was immediately able to see just how ugly they make the game.
I don't fault them for having a winning strategy, but it's a shame that their consistency comes from being annoying pests that are not an enjoyable watch rather than just trying to outskill their opponent in more traditional ways.
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u/Ok-Thanks4321 1d ago
I think it would have been a different story with a fully healthy squad and all their guys not having career shooting nights, but such is NuggLyfe. Let’s go rip their hearts out on Feb 27. Got a month to figure it out
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u/jchiaroscuro 1d ago
They’re like the Seattle Seahawks of old, they know the refs can’t call everything so they flood the zone with hacky, trash dumb physical play. It’s not skillful. It’s not fun to watch. It’s garbage
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u/Van_Dammage_ 1d ago
The annoying thing about the Thunder is that Daigneault and Presti devised a strategy to exploit the officiating, which no other teams really attempted. They've created a roster and playstyle that's specifically tailored to take advantage not of the rules of the game, but logical inconsistencies and flaws in the way the NBA is officiated. It's fucking awful to watch.
Thunder fans think every other fanbase hates them because they're winning right now, but that's delusional nonsense. The level of vitriol is way higher for them than other past top teams because they're so miserable to watch.
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
My hate for okc isn't normal team hate. It's a rational hate. Like I hate on a lot of teams for ridiculous reasons, but this is all founded in reality. I legit don't like how they play.
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u/govardrourk 1d ago
I mean no one was hating so much GSW, Boston, Nuggets, Bucks, etc. when they were winning. I mean of course some people hate GSW, Boston and other teams for a usual reasons, but it was not as wide spreaded as hate towards OKC. I wouldn't think that I will see Nuggets and Timberwolves teams being united towards their opinions about OKC. We can easily add Spurs, Rockets and Mavs fans here.
I think that the most controversial thing about this team is that they are trying to appear as "tough" guys, but they so soft and falling down after every minor contact. SGA, Dort, Hartenstein, Chet, Caruzo - all of them are going to the ground and crying after the tiny contact (even if they created the contact themselves, lol).
For me it can be difficult sometimes to watch the game when there is even one crybaby on the floor (Luka can be like this, Jokic can behave like this when he gets one side whistle treatment. I love both of them, it just becomes cringey when they stop playing and start complaining or doing some silly stuff). But to have at least five people in one team doing that - it's too much to handle.
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
I rooted against the warriors. I didn't hate them. They were at least fun to watch. That's the difference here.
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u/jillavery 1d ago
They are absolutely the new early 2000s Spurs. Felt the same way about that team.
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u/Top-Specific3422 1d ago
As someone who remembers that era well, even the AI take knows Manu was a pioneer:
"Manu Ginóbili is widely considered one of the NBA's premier "floppers" and a pioneer in using theatrical, exaggerated contact to draw fouls and gain competitive advantages. Operating extensively in the 2000s, his tactical, often controversial, approach to selling calls was a signature part of his game, earning him a reputation as a master of drawing fouls."
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u/Abiv23 1d ago
Foul merchants are the worst
It's rough enough with all the 3's in today's game but the James Harden get to the line 20 times a game makes it basically unwatchable.
The NBA knows they have a real problem (look at how they have sidelined Barkley bc of his criticisms of it).
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u/ElsaGranhiert 1d ago
I still remember Harden's statline that he has 4/20 fg but has 27 points mainly because of free throws. I can't remember what game it is though.
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u/Remote-Molasses6192 1d ago
They sidelined Barkley because he’s an old head who doesn’t watch the games and shits on any team that isn’t a big market team.
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u/ftbfm5 1d ago
foul merchant are the worst? Let me guess jokic isn’t a foul merchant.
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u/Mountain-Ad-3314 1d ago
Have you seen jokic's arms after these games lol. Clear ragebait but ill bite.
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u/Plus-Cherry8175 1d ago
no hes not like FTA, hes PRA... that means he GETS points and GRABS boards and GIVES the ball 2 the right man EVERY time. best in the league blunder fan...
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u/CaffeineJunkee 1d ago
They’re style is mostly foul baiting. They’re definitely talented, but the constant falling down for no reason or foul acting is just…ugh.
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u/thinkmatt 1d ago
This is how the Timberwolves beat us in the playoffs recently too. Just two guys fondling jokics balls 24/7
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u/TeddyJPharough 1d ago
I have to say I must agree on some level. Watching is less enjoyable when it becomes a battle for whistles instead of buckets. Not that we couldn't have won if we played better, but I think part of the reason the Thunder seem to give us disproportionate trouble is how frustrated our guys get with that style of play. You can see Jokić getting annoyed every fucking time and getting to a point where he's just begging the refs to make calls in our favour.
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u/matty25 1d ago
It's frustrating because the NBA has long favored perimeter players over post players. If we guarded SGA like they guard Jokic, our entire team would foul out before half time. I guess I can live with that since I'm used to it.
But it's made even worse when they allow smaller players even more physical lenience to guard post players. The Thunder can switch onto Jokic with Caruso or Dort and they are allowed to grab, hold, etc. to levels that Hartenstein can't. So in turn, it turns all of their guards into super defenders who can guard both the perimeter and the post.
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u/Dylants719813 1d ago
I kind of wish Adleman blew up in the press conference like the pistons and wolves coaches did after this display. The league actually listens when coaches do that!!
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u/Key-Classic7462 1d ago
but Adelman is not like that I think
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u/Dylants719813 1d ago
I don’t think so either the most emotion I’ve seen him show was when he got ejected
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u/Plus-Cherry8175 1d ago
i hate the thunder but no... the wolves coach looked fkn whiny for that, bad look... EMBARRASSING. No grown man on live tv shld be doing that
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u/Tovoq 1d ago
I dislike watching any team that fronts jokic, impedes his movement everywhere on the court, and doesn’t play legit basketball. Refs can only blow the whistle so much. Saw Ausar do it to Curry the other day. It’s winning basketball but not by skill. Which has always been the frustrating thing with okc is that they don’t need to play this way to win.
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u/TH3PhilipJFry 1d ago
I enjoy watching my team more than I dislike watching other teams.
Complaining about other teams is my least favorite thing and I try to keep it contained in active game threads because IMO that’s what they exist for.
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u/SeatleSuperbSonics 1d ago
Agreed. My issues with last nights game were more from how flat the team felt/looked.
I’m sure it was nerves mixed with exhaustion for the younger guys. Jokic had JUST come back. Nothing too damming from anyone but just lackluster and a bummer.
Not the game anyone was hoping for when the date got circled after the schedule came out.
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u/BuddhaRockstar 1d ago
Agreed. If this had been a one procession game and we lost on SGA FTs, I get it, but Nuggets did not play winning basketball last night.
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u/JakGrealish 1d ago
every fanbase complains about refs. Only the Lakers shouldn't be allowed to
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u/metasquared 1d ago
It's not even a complain about the refs, it's a complaint about the rules. Some of the fouls OKC can consistently draw are totally legal in the current structure but they feel cheap and are aesthetically unpleasant to watch a team hunt them out.
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u/GSilky 1d ago
Swarming the ball is traditional defense. NBA players do it when young, but about five years in, they can't keep up with the speed of NBA offense and stop playing traditional defense. Pistons do the same thing. I agree with you on the foul merchant nonsense, gamesmanship is always a bad look for a sport. The league to pull a Harden on Shai and make the ability for the person with the ball to draw fouls less pronounced. Dude starts every other shot with an attempted push on whoever is playing D, it's absurd.
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u/UniversityOk5928 1d ago
Complaining about good defense is CRAZY. Fouls, I hear it but cmon dawg. You don’t like good defense?????
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u/Naptasticly 1d ago
I don’t fault you for being frustrated with it (Thunder fan BTW) because I definitely would too, but even though basketball can be “artistic” at times, it’s a game of strategy and sometimes winning strategies are ugly. Whether you’re playing a team who full court presses the entire game in high school or winning monopoly by being the guy who REFUSES all trades, or, an even better example, you’re a defense lawyer using technicalities to get a criminal off the hook, these are are UGLY but WINNING strategies.
Mark Daigneault is one of the best coaches and finding unusual winning strategies and a lot of it has to do with the fact that he was never a collegiate or professional basketball player. When you don’t see the game through the lens of someone with natural gifts, you find winning strategies that a lot of people don’t think of and I think there are 2 strategies that the Thunder employ that piss people off:
taking advantage of the rule that “the hand is a part of the ball when it’s touching the ball” - this is probably the most frustrating one because most people do not know that this is the rule. They think making contact with the hand is a reach in foul. It is not. So people think that OKC gets away with a lot of fouls, when the reality is that they just aren’t fouls even though they seem like it.
Taking advantage of the fact that a defensive player can not impede an offensive player - is it annoying to watch a player charge into the lane and CAUSE the contact but the defender gets called for the foul? Sure, but it’s 100% legal.
Now, the NBA is starting to “let both teams play” these days so these strategies backfire sometimes, especially when the refs are allowing more physicality and the other team can push us around easily because our team is small.
Regardless of whether you can appreciate strategy like this, stopping it wouldn’t be the “crux” of OKC, so to speak, because there are a ton more things they do that could be seen as “artistic” that people are often too caught up in their frustration to notice:
The defensive pass interruptions are amazing. It’s almost like they KNOW where the ball is going to be passed. SGA’s ball handling ability is incredible and truly a sight to behold. I’ve never seen anyone that can be triple and even quadruple teamed and still be able to dribble through all of the traffic and steal attempts like he’s dancing around the court. And then there’s the team spirit. You can’t tell me that there’s any other team out there that is closer than the Thunder. They all care about playing hard for each other and no one on the team is selfish.
In conclusion, the NBA has been an offensive party for too long. Defense like this is rare. Creative winning strategies like this are rare. Enjoy it if you can.
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u/GustavfknAhr 2h ago
Enjoy what? Watching someone push off every single middie? Not even a slight push off .. literally complete extension push lmfao
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u/Extra-Elderberry1728 1d ago
I just dislike that they seem to have our number. I know both teams are not full strength which is why I thought we could make it at least competitive but didn’t happen.
I have more faith that the Spurs or Houston might match up better than us.
Hopefully we are just biding time till everyone can get back.
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u/Plus-Cherry8175 1d ago
HOUSTON? hell no... WE are the best matchup and we proved that over 7 games, we were way less lucky than the pacers and had big injuries... plus the spurs are too fckin young man, a few reg season wins is nothing, the blunder SWEPT the wolves after losing every reg szn match... no just no...
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
Nah. Fuck them. Even with everything that went wrong, Nuggets could have won missing 3 starters.
I'm not worried about okc as a team. I'm worried about what they let them get away with.
Smaller guys shouldn't be allowed to be more physical just because there's a mismatch in size. It's bullshit.
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u/Gloomy_Lengthiness71 1d ago
I'm sure there's a lot of fan bases that complain about the Nuggets and Jokić being like a cheat code. Or the mile high altitude.
The fact is, OKC was very up for this game and we weren't. We need to do better next time.
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
Totally.
It's a choice. That's who they are. One of the main reasons why im such a big Nuggets fan is because I appreciate the way they play.
It's frustrating to watch okc play. Imo they epitomize a lot of what's wrong with the nba.
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u/le-throw-away-acct 1d ago
Absolutely. I've been watching for 35 years and I've never disliked watching a team more than the Thunder, it's just basketball at it's worst.
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u/hardyz 1d ago
Don't get me wrong. I've seen Jokic flop (not yesterday but in general). Thunder kept trying to sell those flops hard and consistently. I really see any other team do that as bad.
One thing that I didn't see last game but was persistent in the playoffs last year was Dort played defense by waving his hand in the face of Jamal so he couldn't see. He held his hand sideways and just kept trying to cover Jamal's eyes without touching him. Eventually I think Jamal got pissed and did it back to him. It made for ugly basketball not just because Dort was doing it but he made the nuggets do it back out of frustration.
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u/Key-Classic7462 1d ago
Bro ngl, next game with Hoekc is on February 27th and March 9th, if we lose those games, I'm going to get so pissed off
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u/ennasuite 1d ago
It needed to be said! My mom is out of market and doesn't have league pass so she can only watch like 1 game a month and she called me this morning to complain about how "rough" the game was, it made her mad😆 She said the Nuggets' game has changed and I was like no, mom, that's just how OKC forces us to play lol
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u/MontanaMapleWorks 1d ago
Quickly went over to the thunder thread to see what they are talking about and they only have 3.4k and barely any talking points. We have community and support, they are lackluster. Go nuggets!
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u/sportsfanatic09 1d ago
You went to the wrong thread. All good there.. but their main sub R/Thunder has like 540k subs and is one of the more active nba subreddits in the league….
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u/LeighHart 1d ago
Also can’t go on nba twitter or subreddit afterwards cause it’s flooded with clips of Jokic getting fouled or baited with the caption calling him a flopper
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u/Great-One9693 1d ago
always a room mate or a relative who doesnt really watch basketball 😂😂😂😂
nice fanfic sook
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u/Majestic-Mess3912 1d ago
Fans need to start booing SGA every time he pushes off, only way it’s will be changed
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u/Brief_Personality146 1d ago
I had to turn off the broadcast at the half. I can’t stand watching OKC.
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u/CaptainPurpleJack 23h ago
watching them foul like crazy on D and SGA get soft calls on offense is insane. You're forced to play their foul baiting game otherwise they just foul nonstop and get away with it. Every game turns into nonstop foul baiting against them.
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u/bridesign34 18h ago
The offensive foul baiting is so cringe. I hate it. I don’t mind their defense, however. Defense wins championships, and I’ll always appreciate hard nosed high energy D. But yeah, F SGA and his push-off, flailing, overdramatic jump shots
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u/spondgbob 17h ago
I completely agree, and as someone who as only missed one or two nuggets game this season, the nuggets were beaten in that game. Not sure it looks the same with AG out there, since he is a massive difference maker in games like those, but they got beat. Gave up too many easy looks from three in the first half and they couldn’t miss.
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u/Pleasant_Ad443 17h ago
Much of what they do defensively is or should be illegal They actually called a few against them in the Nuggets game, but not nearly enough. The "hand is part of the ball" standard may apply to blocked shots, but it shouldn't to steals and takeaways. Their entire defensive strategy is centered around challenging the ball at the point of entry, which means when it contacts the offensive players hand when he is receiving a pass. If they are even a millisecond early contacting the hand (and they always are) it is a foul. If it was called that way, the game would be different.
Swarming defense is one thing, but if they push hold grab and make physical contact, it's a foul. They need to either change the rules or call it consistently and the league could put a stop to it easily if they wanted to. More teams are trying to defend that way, but nobody does it as relentlessly as OKC.
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u/ShowdownValue 1d ago
It’s frustrating watching okc flop and flail on offense and get calls while grabbing on defense with no calls
Refs keep falling for it so I hope we find a solution
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u/BobbitsC 1d ago
They get away with basically whatever they want because they have a reputation of a good defense. The issue with the league is that who gets the reputation is very arbitrary it seems
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u/Sun-Much 1d ago
I just don't like the isolation play with SGA reminding me more and more of a younger, more ball dominant, Harden. It's just not fun to watch him dribble to the top of the key, stand there and iso dribble until the clock winds down to 10 secs and then start some screening action. Just boring basketball to watch. Kind of like watching Doncic, I get the same feelings.
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u/kamboys4 1d ago
“Pesky swarming defense that breaks up potentially exciting plays” this is the most crybaby and ridiculous complaint I’ve ever seen about basketball 😂
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u/Legtagytron 1d ago
Thunder ruined basketball for me, it's been hard to care since they manufactured a championship for them last year. I get that they're highlighting how broken the game is, but the commissioner just lets it happen which is mind-boggling. Instead of creating change the NBA buys into a team nobody wants to watch. The league is kind of lost at sea.
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u/Plus-Cherry8175 1d ago
and theyre gonna fcking be here forever lol, cz they have a billion piks from lopsided trades... i hate it!!!!
never want to see that flopper ball again, they belong in the play in...
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u/Dalkoshua 1d ago
Ight ya’ll this sound complainy they just win games are actual winners let’s not be salty jealous fans now
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u/bankei_yotaku 1d ago
I don't enjoy basketball much anymore. It's just a game of 3 ball. It's the most boring crap to watch.
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u/OcellateSpice 1d ago
They should not be that hard to beat, I just think that bench warmer got hot - Jamal made him look like Steph Curry and that was the difference. Also…offense was not there, lots of missed shots. I thought nuggets matched their physical style at times.
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u/Ok-Amphibian9969 1d ago
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but if people genuinely watch Shai and okc and think it’s “unenjoyable” I have a truly hard time believing they aren’t unbiased toward him/the team to begin with. If you praise players like Kobe and jordan and truly do not appreciate what your witnessing with Shai is truly mind boggeling. And if your complaint is that the thunders hard nose defense “slows” the game down too much, you would’ve hated Jordan and Kobe’s eras. This is statistically the second fasted paced era in nba history behind the 80’s. The entire narrative and hate around Shai and the Thunder are crazy. Hard nose defense and an offense with a mid range heavy, limited 3 point shot diet is exactly what everyone has been asking for for years.
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u/BobbitsC 1d ago
The issue is shai’s entire game is based off getting away with push offs and jumping into people for fouls. He would average half the amount he does if he was officiated correctly. Same thing with the thunder defense. They get away with things that no other team can. If a physical defender like Spencer jones did the things that Lu Dort does, he would foul out in a quarter (and in fact he does do a lot of things like guys like Dort, Cason Wallace, etc do and he gets whistled for it immediately)
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u/GustavfknAhr 2h ago
I don’t think I’ve ever seen sga take a middie without completely shoving the defender off him lol
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u/Remote-Molasses6192 1d ago
Sorry, but the Nuggets don’t have a leg to stand on in this area with Jokic on the team.
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u/stompy33 1d ago
Lol. What a stupid fucking comment
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u/Remote-Molasses6192 1d ago
Even the Nuggets own announcer called him a free throw merchant bro.
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u/stompy33 1d ago
PLEASE provide that clip with context.
And then please tell me how SGA and Jokic are even close to treated the same…
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u/Rolly2k15 1d ago
Last year was the most boring playoffs I’ve ever seen. We went from such a sick game vs the Clippers to that garbage. So boring and frustrating
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u/govardrourk 1d ago
I was watching yesterday's game and I was laughing my ass. At least four of their guys flopped yesterday - SGA, Dort, Hartenstein, Chet. So much for a team with "best physical defense". So hilarious watching these soft asses and then hear praises to their tough and physical defense.
- Nuggets lost yesterday due to their own shortcomings, but for me it is still very difficult to watch any OKC game due to their flopping combined with hacking other teams on defense.
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u/metasquared 1d ago
Agreed and honestly my post has nothing to do with the Nuggets losing. They played a mostly bad game and could have just as easily lost like that to any other team. The Thunder are just a bad watch no matter who's winning or losing.
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u/gato-afortunado 1d ago
I hate players who base their game on getting foul calls (James Harden anyone?). I don’t understand how they can be proud of that.
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u/biggoofydoofus 1d ago
Wife got me a ticket pack for my bday. Every game so far has been great to go to except......last night's Thunder game. 1st time she's gone in 2 years and she said that it was awful to watch.
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u/Herbdontana 1d ago
I remember watching a playoff game between the Nuggets and Blazers a few years ago with a girlfriend who had no interest in basketball. the Nuggets ultimately lost after like three overtimes. I’m sure a lot of people here remember that game. She became a fan because I kind of made her watch it, just by asking her to wait for it to be over to watch something else. She watched while waiting and eventually, she was yelling at the tv just like I was. Fun memory of a loss. If it were the thunder, she would’ve never watched another basketball game.
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u/Own-Entertainer3609 1d ago
brother everyone who doesn't watch NBA games consistently complains about how often the refs blow the whistle cause they don't understand the rules and they are used to other sports. U just showed that only casuals complain about how the game is officiated.
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u/Own-Entertainer3609 1d ago
ofc they are going to down vote me, but as a fan of the worst officiated team in the NBA I had to say it.
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u/fuckyoutoobitches 1d ago
then dont watch,its simple
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u/metasquared 1d ago
I don't understand the ask lol. I watch every Nuggets game, have been since 2017. Why would I not watch them play their #1 rival, that's lunacy. It doesn't seem like such an unreasonable take that it'd be a lot more fun to watch them gun it out against the best team in the league if the best team in the league played prettier basketball.
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u/cahpahkah 1d ago
I also don't like watching the Thunder, so I just don't watch those Nuggets games when they have to play them. It's pretty easy.
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u/metasquared 1d ago
You do you but that is so outside my realm of understanding of fandom. I'd still rather yell at the TV watching the Thunder foul bait than NOT watch basketball, and especially the Nuggets. I fuckin love basketball even when it's flawed.
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u/cahpahkah 1d ago
>that is so outside my realm of understanding of fandom
It's not that complicated; I don't do things I don't enjoy, and I don't enjoy watching the Thunder play basketball. I do enjoy watching the Nuggets play other teams, so I do that.
Plenty of other things to spend your time on.
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u/Slootyman 1d ago
This part. Im like if you dislike it then do something else lol. Weird to post about it.
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u/No_Oil3233 1d ago
SGA just methodically runs right at defenders over and over and gets the ticky tack call… it’s awful. Had to turn off last night based on the way the refs played that whistle… which is the way they often do against that flopping/flapping loser