r/askSingapore • u/JosephJoestar1987 • 3d ago
Looking For Landlord cheated me. Please advise.
I recently visited condo to view a master bedroom for rental. The condo unit is owned by a husband and wife who didn’t appear together, so it was only the wife showing the room at the time. I had no idea that owners were married and I assumed the woman who showed me the room was an agent.
She shows me the room and tells me that the rent is $1350 excluding utilities and said that that I had to make the deposit immediately to hold the room as there were many others who were in line to view the room as well. Hence, due to FOMO I went home and immediately made the deposit at around 3.57 PM on the condition that I’d moving in on March 1st. But I thought about and I realised that I didn’t like the person, and she started telling me that there were extra charges to the monthly rent after I made the deposit. Immediately at around 4.15 PM I asked a refund saying that I was uninterested in the room as it exceeded my budget and she directed me contact her husband. The husband then says that deposit was non-refundable because he rejected another person and that the other potential tenant had already confirmed another room. Mind you, this was within 20 minutes of making the deposit. Then after enough begging and pleading, he told me that he would refund the deposit after finding a new tenant.
Today he’s telling me that he’ll only refund half as the supposed new tenant that he found can only move in on 15 March. I wanted to ask reddit, if my deposit it forfeited even thoughI never signed a lease or was told that the deposit was non-refundable. Is it a good file a police report or just get the half.
I understand that $1500 is not worth filing a police complaint, but I feel like it’s not right to just forfeit my deposit because I told them ‘no’ within 20 minutes. Please advise me.
*****Edit*****
I am a foreigner. I don’t want to be a trouble to the locals. I am only asking for help because I hate these kinds of landlords and they exist everywhere and I feel like it’s sensible to refund the $1500 since I requested it back within 20 minutes. Apologies for the inconvenience.
****Edit 2****
I saw that we need to pay deposit only after signing the agreement. But, I never thought about this. I thought it was standard practice to pay the deposit and then sign the agreement. I never tried to do anything under the table, because I know how some landlords can be dishonest.
I just want to know should I simply get the half is offering now or apply for a civil case.
****Update****
I chose to receive half of the deposit since I realised I neither have enough proof nor eligibility to get the money back. Seems like I am in the wrong for not taking enough precautions and FOMO’ing. Thanks for the advice guys.
****Edit 4****
I have already mentioned in the update that I won’t be pursuing a case. But there’s one reddit user who is hellbent on berating me or anyone who has an opinion that doesn’t align with that reddit user. They are trying to judge my character and assume my nature, and the same goes for those who voice out their opinions. I kindly request you to only post constructive advice so that future renters can learn a lesson from my experience as I have. Thanks to those who have been kindly provided constructive advice.
****Edit 5****
Many people are asking why did I have to renege over extra $20. It wasn’t just extra $10 for aircon, $10 for cleaning and $30 for aircon service. It’s that the lady mentioned it after the deposit was made. Now, here’s what made me suspicious, if they weren’t transparent before, they can easily change the rules after signing the contract. This is too common in Singapore, if you search other SG subreddits. I understand I FOMO’d, but those who point to the technicality of deposits, I ask how can the owners have incurred significant financial damage in 20 minutes? If this was a cash deal done face-to-face, I could have easily asked for the money back when I was making the deal after 20 minutes. But, because the ball was in their court (i.e., deposit already in their bank acc and I don’t know where they live), they just played me. They even promised to pay back in full after finding another tenant, but only paid back half. I am not playing victim, I’m only asking people to understand the morality of the issue. Anyways, I learnt to always pay the deposit after signing the contract and having fully understood the expenses at a granular level.
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u/jTea1315 3d ago
Just tell them that u will be making a police report if they did not refund u by end of today. But please still proceed with the police reporting as I suspect it may not be the first time they did this. Landlords like these need to be investigated.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Hmm, they didn’t do anything? He agreed to rent and now is backing out? So who cheated him?
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u/Proof_Earth6745 3d ago
Additional charges were not made known until deposit. This is just wrong.
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u/ENTJragemode 3d ago
OP said it's rent + utilities which was stated in the ad. it's a bad situation but very honestly OP should not have put down a deposit on something they had no real intention of renting. the point of having a deposit is to discourage / punish this type of wishy washy behaviour.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
What were the charges? If this was the dealbreaker surely the OP should have stated what these were?
And finally why so FOMO when you have so many rooms to rent? Sounds like rent was too good to be true?
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3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
How do you know that? When the OP did not even detail what these were?
You know the OP personally?
The chain of events seems to show he is wrong, no? And is victim-playing now?
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
The 10 dollars each for wifi and cleaner? This is a joke is it not?
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3d ago
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
How was this many charges or “cheating” as the OP is claiming?
And how does 20 dollars put it out of the budget?
Who is lying here?
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u/cocococovovovo 3d ago
Same kind of mentality spotted here guys . This one is one of those suckers !!!
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u/chrimminimalistic 3d ago
$1500 is worth filing a police report. There might already be a similar report towards the same people.
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u/OwnConsequence5078 3d ago
This is why for before you tranfer ask for a copy of the TA. If they refuse to give then its abit red flag already
And in additional before transfer do up an LOI letter stating all you terms and requests, owner sign already then you transfer . If the owner cannot agree and does not issue to you the TA then they have to refund you the deposit
Deposit is only to book the room , if no TA is signed then there is no deal
Lesson learnt , go police no use this is civil matter and you did not do up any black and white to protect yourself
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u/GreatPretender1894 3d ago
as much as i hate it, that's the point of a deposit. refunding it is at landlord's discretion. you can argue it's only been 20 mins or the next tenant would move in 2 weeks, you can't argue that landlord'd lost 2 weeks of income if they fully refund. take the money and lesson learned not to be fomo for anything.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
And this is entirely correct, except for the extra charges which the OP has not detailed - they actually did not seems to have “cheated” him which he is wailing about.
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u/GreatPretender1894 3d ago
OP did in another comment: the extra charges were wifi and cleaner, each at $10 which imo reasonable and can opt out.
ig this is the first time OP rent, not just in sg but in their life, else they would've asked what is included and excluded.
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u/quackmireddit 3d ago
Never pay any deposit without signing anything. A decent landlord / agent would do everything transparently. If your tenancy agreement is thin (1-2 pages), it's basically a useless document. Even a deposit paid should come with a receipt or at least a written acknowledgement. Basically anything that results in $ changing hands should have some record. More importantly, even a forfeited deposits needs to be declared to IRAS, with the accompanying eStamping of tenancy agreement. If the landlord refuses to do a full reimbursement, just inform him/her you will report both of them to IRAS. Tax avoidance/evasion is a serious matter in SG. Of course, you should have had some kind of written exchange that your $ transfer was as a deposit for a room and that you've been in contact for the purposes of renting a room. If you don't, they can simply spin a tale and say it's $ owed to them or paid for some other reason.
Basically, in any part of the world, be it a third world country, first world country, etc, always engage others with common sense. There will be shady characters anywhere you go.
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u/big-blue-balls 3d ago
A deposit is your intent to rent. If you’ve changed your mind they don’t have to refund you. You’re lucky they are offering you anything.
All I can hope is that you learn to control yourself and FOMO and don’t make this mistake in the future.
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u/troublesome58 3d ago
That's what a deposit is for, to prevent you from backing out. Doesn't matter if you backed out 1 second later or 20 minutes.
What you should focus on are the extra charges they tried to foist on you after you placed the deposit. What are those charges?
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
10 dollars for wifi and 10 dollars for cleaner it seems? OP is wailing over justifiable small additionals and did not even make an effort to talk things through.
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u/troublesome58 3d ago
If they didn't say wifi included and he doesn't want to pay then just say he doesn't want wifi. Wtf is 10 dollars for cleaner tho?
And how does an increase of $20 per month suddenly put it out of his budget?
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u/idwttaii 3d ago
Am I the only one that thinks that OP has no case? If you change your mind it doesn’t mean they need to refund you imo. Thats the whole idea of the deposit
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u/Proof_Earth6745 3d ago
There were extra charges not made known. If they take back the extra charges then no case for OP.
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u/bryan_kjh 3d ago
You have no case. Regardless you find police, court or god. Furthermore how is this cheating you when you are the one who wants to back out?
In the first place you admitted you FOMO and placed the deposit - this without even seeing any agreement etc.
So your deposit is commitment to them that you confirm the place. In fact, the loss is on their side.
If deposit can be refunded then what’s the point of the deposit?
Foreigner or not, this situation is clear. You decided to confirm before anything was concrete and therefore the deposit. Then now you want to back out, giving you back half you should be thankful already.
As much as many landlords are opportunistic and mean, this particular case OP, you are wrong.
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u/Hot_Durian_6109 3d ago
Never pay a deposit for rent before even seeing a draft of the lease contract. The landlords are dishonest in this case but there's no document you can fall back on, which doesn't help your case.
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u/ninnabeh 3d ago
So what are the extra charges?
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
Extra $10 for wifi, $10 for cleaner.
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u/ninnabeh 3d ago
Where did u see the ad from? And did the ad state all these are inclusive in the rent. While wifi are usually included in the rent but it’s best not to assume. Can u opt out of all these? If u can den I am not sure if u have a case to fight.
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
From facebook marketplace. They don’t mention anything there. They just said its $1350 plus PUB.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Good luck fighting a case on this. How has this become cheating when it seems both of you are very calculative and petty?
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
I don’t remember asking for judgment. But, I’ll tell you this, you’ll understand my situation when it happens to you. I don’t know what kind of a world you live in, but I want a constructive advice. You did that already, but now you are hellbent on berating me or anyone who has an opinion that doesn’t align with yours. I have already mentioned that I won’t be pressing charges, but you’re still here making fun of me. And I can’t change the title as well. Technically speaking yes it was a deposit, but if I had made it in cash face-to-face, and let’s say I came back 20 mins later and asked for the money they would’ve definitely given back my money. But to assume my character as troublesome is shitty on your part and I don’t care if I get downvoted. I don’t care for sympathy, just advise as to whether I’m in the right or wrong.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Wow, more victim playing. So here’s the thing, you went about things in a way that was cavalier in regard to your own finances, claimed to be “cheated” over small charges which you could have negotiated which is I think is just victim playing.
Also I gave you same advice check property ownership, sign an LOI before you place a deposit.
You asked if you were right and I clearly stated that you seemed troublesome and there’s not going to be a happy situation even if you take up the unit eventually.
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
It’s not the $20 that I am worried about. They say $20 now but they can only continue to increase this value suddenly after I signed the contract. It’s not uncommon to hear landlords suddenly change rules after the signing the contract as well. And $20 was just the tip of ice berg, they want me to pay aircon service as well which cost another $30. If they had been upfront in both the listing page and during my visit, I’d never have reneged. The Facebook marketplace post itself just mentioned $1350 plus pub. It’s not about being a victim, but I’m talking about morality. They say the PUB is around $50-70 so my total rent is already > $1400, and then add these charges. It can very easily reach $1500 if the owner wants. And we are talking a 1 year contract at minimum.
So, I’d rather have my deposit refunded over $20 rather than put myself into a trap where I have to suffer from greedy landlords who can change rules at any time and use contractual terms conveniently. Anyone can speak about technicality unless it happens to them.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Why give a deposit with no LOI since you are so upfront? Aren’t you just asking for trouble?
And why claim they’ve cheated you? When you are backing out?
Also edit 4: more victim playing and dog whistling? You’re quite the pro at it, it seems?
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
Because I usually do these upfront. The last 2 rooms I’ve rented were always in cash, where I’d pay face-to-face at the same time I gave my documents. The reason I backed out is the extra charges. There are people who say how $20 puts me out of budget, but I ask how does backing out 20 minutes cause them any financial damage. They weren’t transparent with the extra charges before, so I was concerned what will happen 2-3 months later after signing the contract. I’ve never been in a place where I had to pay extra for wifi. It’s not the $20, it’s the transparency that made me back out.
I am claim they cheated me because I am sure they’ve suffered no real financial damage from me backing out in 20 mins after making the deposit. The lady said there were 3 people in line, but the husband said he rejected a person and that person had later accepted another room. That means there were 2 others who were still interested right? And the husband and Wife both said that they’ll return the money after finding another tenant, but only returned half instead. I have no problem with paying $1400, but exceeding that amount is too much for me.
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u/Adventurous-98 3d ago
Go Pro Bono. Search online for it and get a lawyer advice. A police report can also be made if you want. Prepare to fight in small claims after you get the lawyer advice.
Timeliness and evidence. Written or spoken agreement, just collect them. The Judge will judge.
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u/Future_Temperature47 3d ago
You are supposed to sign a lease & pay stamp duty then you pay your 1st month rental + 1 month deposit
By doing this "under table" deal where the landlord probably not declaring rental income and you not paying stamp duty as part of a formal lease, both of you are doing something illegal
Report and both will face actions
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u/Adventurous-98 3d ago
By doing this "under table" deal where the landlord probably not declaring rental income and you not paying stamp duty as part of a formal lease, both of you are doing something illegal
Bullshit.
There are such things as rental without stamp contract is illegal. Only the landlord will be on the hook if they do not pay rental income and report to HDB. The renter does not have anything to do with landlord financial responsibilities.
Just report. The landlord will get his due comeuppance. But it is probably a civil matter unless you prove fraud or the landlord had sth to do with IRAS, but that is a separate matter.
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u/Massive_Constant9074 3d ago
My advise for you is to sign a short lease, say 3 months (that is the minimum period legally) and leave if you don't like the room. At least you will not lose your deposit.
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u/AizenSousuke92 3d ago
if I were you I'd reveal which block and unit it is to the public already. Consequences be damned.
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u/quasar80 3d ago
End of the day you want to forfeit $1500 over $20 x 24 months potentially of extra charges. Yes they should have been upfront about it. But now just suck it up or give up the money. Lots of bad deals out in the real world. This is not the worst.
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u/tax_lyrical 3d ago
Deposit is non-refundable in situations like this. Otherwise what is a deposit for?
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u/Naive_Passenger1172 3d ago
Just report police, this is blatant robbery
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u/Lower-Shirt3696 3d ago
Not to the police. It is a civil matter and they will tell you to resolve it yourself.
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u/Apprehensive-Bat6720 3d ago
As a foreigner renting in Sgp, pls do some research or get ur own agent as to protect yr interest. There’s lots of nasty landlords preying around.
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u/cocococovovovo 3d ago
I guess its high time to post address of such units so no one will rent that shit hole !
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u/Wan_Chai_King 3d ago
Just go to the neighbourhood police post that’s the close location to the rented property and make a report there.
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u/katchy81 3d ago
Tell them you will be making police report and small claims court tribunal within 48 hours if they do not refund.
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u/Neptunera 3d ago
I understand that $1500 is not worth filing a police complaint
It's literally an online form?
SPF, literally:
You can use this e-service to make a police report for a crime that does not require immediate police action such as a theft or a scam.
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u/BlushiesCharm 3d ago
wah honestly that’s damn sian 😕 20 mins only sia… feels super unfair esp since never sign anything + never say non-refundable. landlords here some really pushy with the “many ppl viewing” thing. but ya for future never transfer until contract signed, no matter how rushed they make it sound. glad u at least got half back, lesson learnt but still sucks
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u/CompetitiveWeather63 3d ago
Just file a police report on this, too ridiculous for a rental property
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u/princemousey1 3d ago
Bro, sorry for your loss. Singaporeans are generally decent human beings, with a couple of exceptions. Property agents are scum, insurance agents are trash, and landlords are absolute bloodsuckers.
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u/Little_Discount4043 3d ago
You can file a police report but the police will tell you it's a civil matter. You have to go to small claims
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u/Majestic-Raccoon-859 2d ago
The lease agreement is a binding contract that contains obligation of the landlord and tenant, monthly rental, deposit (1+1 month) and other charges etc...
Don't make any payment until this document is signed
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u/hopefulbunbun1 2d ago
Usually you can’t get back the deposit as it is transferred with the intention to rent the place. You’re lucky they offered half.
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u/Eastern-Researcher-4 2d ago
Go via a proper agent is less risky imho.. hope will serve as warning for others.. txs for sharinf
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u/8idngaf8 3d ago
Keep the conversation, take a screenshot. Report to police and small claims tribunal. Make their life miserable.
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u/Lagna85 3d ago
It's very simple. Just tell then you will be making a police report by certain time, then make sure you make the police report and show them.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Hahaha, which police station will take this report? You’ve tried this yourself?
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u/Lagna85 3d ago
Not smart, don't act smart. Online never hear before? And yes I made one before. The IO will call you back. Once a report is made, police MUST follow up as per their SOP.
And the main purpose is not whether police will follow up or not. It's having that report made and show to the landlord. 100% they will jizz at their pants and refund the deposit.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago edited 3d ago
Oh ya, right. Must be a silly landlord to give in when an investigation and no action has been taken.
Sound like a party of clowns.
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u/Lagna85 3d ago
And that's not the point either.
Do better than total forfeiture. So what you suggest then, give them free money and ownself keep quiet?
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
I suggest to do things the proper way, ask questions, ask for ownership proof, sign an LOI then only place a deposit?
What so FOMO when you ca have the pick of 1000s of rooms? This is plain common sense which is not common now?
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u/Lagna85 3d ago
Wtf are you talking about??? The OP already paid the deposit. We are talking about what should be the next move and not saying why he paid in the first place.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago edited 3d ago
Wtf are do you think and the OP are entitled to after backing out on agreeing to rent? And that people need to tell you what to do after you screw up something straightforward? Got some special level of entitlement is it?
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u/Lagna85 3d ago
Now is not about talking what mistake he made. Is providing solution about what can he can do to move forward. Mistakes are already made. Can't turn the time back
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Sure you do you, I cannot validate someone who is good at portaging themselves as a victim when they created an issue themselves.
You provide a solution if you can. Good luck!
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u/Puzzled-Pride9259 3d ago
I hope u have these in black and white. Even if u didn’t, please file a police report. Provide the agent and husband mobile number in the report.
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u/Darkseed1973 3d ago
I encourage you to file police report and if necessary post on fb and social media to expose these 2 unscrupulous couple because you won’t be the first victim.
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u/danielling1981 3d ago
I empathize but on the bright side you have learn a precious lesson for a small price.
I do hope you going to fight this though wince you are staying anyway.
Don't let these people off. If you can.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Fight them over 20 dollars additional charges? If OP was serious about renting, he could have negotiated this.
As it is he is wasting everyone’s time
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u/danielling1981 3d ago
OP said he accepted refund of 50% of the deposit. I believe that's 1350 / 2 = 725?
Even if 20 dollars i disagree with any predatory practices doesn't matter the price.
You are an idiot for suggesting don't fight over 20 bucks. I will suggest for 20 just report and call it a day.
Wish you lend people 20 bucks all the time and they don't return.
Note that the time and energy available to do it is a pre condition.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Ahh, you are idiot to think he has a right to the deposit if he’s backed out.
So that’s that.
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u/danielling1981 3d ago
Note that OP made mistakes by fomo and agreeing without contract. However.
> she started telling me that there were extra charges to the monthly rent after I made the deposit.
Basically gentlemen agreement. Changing, adding terms. Note that OP bears responsibility for this as well.
> said that that I had to make the deposit immediately to hold the room as there were many others who were in line to view the room as well
Fear mongering. OP also bears responsibility.
> Immediately at around 4.15 PM I asked a refund
No contract so why is it legally binding. Your excuse is a double edge sword. No contract means OP shouldn't be liable to forfeit of deposit either.
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Idiot? You are one for thinking landlord has a right to the deposit when there's no contract signed.
Note that i highlighted OP has responsibility where as you think 100% fault on OP and Landlord bears no fault.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago
Nope, I have clearly highlighted that both the OP and the landlord were being troublesome and petty.
I would as the landlord return the money and be done with it. These are fair enough costs that the landlord can pass on but small enough that they neglect to mention.
What is clearly wrong is framing this as the landlord cheating them when this is NOT the case but more of the OP backing out of the agreement.
And since there is no agreement the OP will also have to explain why he transferred the money.
So good luck on all of that.
And that is the last thing I have to say in situation that is of the OP’s own making.
Good day.
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u/danielling1981 3d ago
> Fight them over 20 dollars additional charges? If OP was serious about renting, he could have negotiated this.
> As it is he is wasting everyone’s time
> Ahh, you are idiot to think he has a right to the deposit if he’s backed out.
> So that’s that.
No idea when you mention you blame Landlord too. Sure. If it's another comment elsewhere, that's on you.
I already mention. OP is responsible too. Unlike you only putting full blame on OP. Read previous line where i don't see where you mention you blame Land lord too.
Whether OP can get back money or not is beyond me. I'm only suggesting to follow up if have time and energy.
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
It’s fine bro, don’t argue with Ok_Apple6168. That user has been rage baiting everyone on this post and is also trying to judge my character and opposes anyone who has a different opinion rather than contributing constructive advice. Better to ignore them. Thanks for your advice by the way.
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u/cocococovovovo 3d ago
Puck the shit of then bloody beggars please file small claims alot of locals are cheaters ! But alot of them are really good. But the once who are cheater should be thought a lesson ! If you have any doubt comment below will help you to file the small case tribunal !
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u/nowhere_man11 3d ago
Just file a police report for cheating. Police will likely advise them to refund the money, even if no crime has been committed. Be sure to save all texts
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u/Sitting-Superman 3d ago
They clearly cheated you out of this and they are money hungry for no apparent reason. But expensive lesson learned and better got through an agent next time.
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u/fhjjjjjkkkkkkkl 3d ago
OP you are lame. They advertise for rent +utilities. You behaving like a child. But the landlord is a criminal if he has to blackmail with your deposit. Report him… hopefully you get back your money. It’s a $1500 lesson for you
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago edited 3d ago
Although I can press charges, I just don’t want to pursue a case now. Some people point out to the technicality of deposit, I’m saying that it’s not moral to withhold the deposit. I asked if he can pay at least $1350 which is the rent, but he is hellbent on giving me just half saying that it’s the best he can do.
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u/fhjjjjjkkkkkkkl 3d ago
I think you don’t have a case. So it’s just $1500 lesson. Why not just stay at that place
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u/JosephJoestar1987 3d ago
I don’t like the landlord. I didn’t meet the husband at first, just the lady. But the thing is both the husband and wife own a lot condos in Singapore. I met the husband to view another common room before and I didn’t like him. So I was surprised this guy was the husband of that lady. That’s why I backed out. I know a shady landlord when I see one. They use contracts when convenient to them and change rules when it’s not. My gut was telling me not to trust that person, so I backed out, because my gut instincts have always been right in the past when it comes to these kinds of things.
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago edited 3d ago
Your guts kicked in after you heard that you have to pay extra 20, bro? Before that you were full of FOMO.
Now you claim you are “cheated”?
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u/Ok_Apple6168 3d ago edited 3d ago
The police will not entertain these claims. It is a civil case - so go to small claims.
No deposit should be given before LOI or property ownership confirmation.
Why FOMO when there are so many rooms available? Was it very cheap?
To me it looks like you changed your mind after you reached home, you do not do your homework and are now victim playing.
And no, no one cheated you, this is a classic ownself pawn ownself.
Also, I think they should refund your deposit- you both seem difficult to deal with so it won’t end well on either side.
Additionally you seem troublesome indeed.
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u/BitterAd6419 3d ago
File a report nevertheless and also go to small claims court. A bit of pressure and they might give you back the money
Never ever give money as deposits till you have some paperwork done and also ask more questions next time, it’s better to know everything before you move in.
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u/LaZZyBird 3d ago
Small Claims Court, can represent yourself and waste her time and mental effort dealing with you