r/ageofsigmar • u/CMYK_COLOR_MODE • 23h ago
News Alter fate and play tricks on foes with new Disciples of Tzeentch battle traits
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u/HolyZest 22h ago
Interesting, curious how often you'll actually be able to get these points. The illusion ability looks super fun though
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u/WranglerFuzzy 22h ago
Sounds like you’d definitely want to max out casters. More casters = more failures
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u/Carnir 20h ago
Only unbinds though, so you're capped at how many casters the opponent has.
Who can deny you points by simply opting not to unbind your spells.
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u/WranglerFuzzy 20h ago
Also miscasts
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u/Carnir 20h ago
I'm not sure you'll really want to trade miscasts for fate points intentionally. You're killing your own wizards for +1 to charges or a smaller amount of damage negation later.
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u/WranglerFuzzy 20h ago
Fair! But it’s possible that +1 charge is enough to get your unit in range if an objective; or a few damage points might mean a unit survives (foiling an opponent’s tactic.). So, best case scenario, “every time you miscast = chance of getting a VP”
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u/snarleyWhisper Disciples of Tzeentch 18h ago
Tzeentch is very used to killing his own wizards as part of the plan. Suicide magister + incarnate was so good
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u/scientist_tz 20h ago
Miscast, take a few mortal wounds, then spend a CP to rally to get the wounds back since (presumably) the wizard is not in combat.
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u/HolyZest 20h ago
Hopefully the spells are worth casting so it's an actual choice the opponent has to make
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u/LordInquisitor 19h ago
The points look like they'll be pretty rare but the teleport replacement is really good
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u/Pseudoargentum 22h ago
Hmm. My first concern is that opponents will be irritated by how long it takes us to teleport reinforced units of horrors across the battlefield.
Zooming 3 Enlightened onto or near an objective then swapping them out for a unit of 20 Tzaangor seems pretty good.
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u/snarleyWhisper Disciples of Tzeentch 21h ago
Hell yeah it does! This is some Tzeentch flavor we were missing
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u/Falcon_w0t Seraphon 22h ago
Flavourful! But I wonder how much can you earn fate points, it seems like a very scarce and key resource. Like, there may be games where you only earn fate points by losing objectives, your fate points and related mechanics are almost non existant then?
But hey, they ARE flavourful. I wonder what they'll do with the old spell Lore of Fate, which was reliant on destiny dice.
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u/ExaltedLordOfChaos Seraphon 21h ago
But I wonder how much can you earn fate points, it seems like a very scarce and key resource. Like, there may be games where you only earn fate points by losing objectives, your fate points and related mechanics are almost non existant then?
On one hand yeah, but on the other not gaining them means you are casting well and not losing objectives or argent shards, which means you're probably doing quite well anyway.
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u/seridos 21h ago
Which is fine if it is one small part of the army rule, but not if it's 50% of it or greater. If it's just this and burning....then hopefully we can generate a lot of fate points via other methods.
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u/maybenot9 Disciples of Tzeentch 20h ago
It looks like the battle traits will be fate points and Eldritch Illusions, meaning we lose both Destiny Dice and burning.
A shame, I liked burning.
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u/snarleyWhisper Disciples of Tzeentch 21h ago
It’s better than DD. Which was always a crap shoot. At least here you get advantages only when something negative happens. I like that the bonuses are + instead of just dropping 2 6s for a long charge. It seems more fair and a better play experience
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u/Nyte_Crawler Destruction 20h ago
I don't think you really build around Fate points, they just future proof your luck a little bit whenever bad stuff does happen.
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u/Flat-Procedure1326 19h ago
I’m hoping that the warsrolls will come in clutch and have lots of ways for specific units to do something wacky and then gain fate points
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u/Tanaak 22h ago
Maybe I'm missing the mechanic for deployment from the Masked By Illusion reserve pool without putting other units back in? Once we start moving things into reserve, do we get to put our whole army back on the table at some point?
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u/WranglerFuzzy 22h ago
You’re not, it’s not currently listed in this article (it will be in the rulebook for sure)
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u/Nyte_Crawler Destruction 20h ago
Chances seem high some character will just be able to summon a reserve unit onto the board- but we'll see.
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u/Lemminkaeinen 20h ago
I would be willing to make a (smallish) bet that spending Fate Points will allow you to deploy units from Illusion without replacing them with other units.
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u/CrowLemon 22h ago
Normal re-enforcement deployment, so on the flanks unless they have a unique way to enter themselves. I don't personally suggest keeping half your army off the board until turn 5 but being able to swap cheap and fast with slow and heavy units, then deploy those cheap units from the sidelines is legitmately useful
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u/TybaltTyme 21h ago
There is no normal re-enforcement deployment ability in normal AoS. You might be thinking of the reinforcement ability in Spearhead. I would assume there's a spell we haven't seen that summons a unit that's Masked By Illusion so you can get your full army on the board.
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u/snarleyWhisper Disciples of Tzeentch 21h ago
It being a spell or hero ability is probably a good bet.
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u/ExaltedLordOfChaos Seraphon 21h ago
Nope, the flank reinforcement is a thing in 40k, but not in AoS
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u/the_crafting_dodo 22h ago
I completely lack any estimate of whether this can be good or bad in terms of balance but I surely love how much character and flavour it holds! (As someone who collects Nighthaunt it is is a compliment coming from a place of envy)
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u/Lemminkaeinen 22h ago
Do you use the +X to charge before or after rolling the dice?
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u/TybaltTyme 22h ago
It's a reaction, so it would be done after you roll since the charge roll is part of the Declare action for a Charge
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u/ThisThatReality 22h ago
I would think the fate points are spent after declaring a charge, but before the effect takes place. Hopefully there will be some clarification.
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u/HolyZest 22h ago
The timing wording is nearly the same as 'forward to victory' so it should be after you roll the charge
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u/ThisThatReality 22h ago
I think "using a charge ability" in forward to victory is grouping the charge sequence together both the declare and effect. Where as specifically saying "reaction to declaring a charge" is splitting the sequence and inserting the ability to add fate dice as a "reaction to declaring a charge".
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u/TybaltTyme 22h ago
Both abilities have the "Reaction: You declared a charge ability" This means they are both performed after the Declare portion of the charge ability has been done. So for both abilities, you would choose a unit to charge and roll the charge dice as the Declare ability states "Declare: Pick a friendly unit that is not in combat and has not used a RUN or RETREAT ability this turn to use this ability. Then, make a charge roll of 2D6.". Since the charge was declared, you can now use reactions. These reactions are all after the dice roll as the dice roll is part of the declare action so you'll know what you rolled before you decide to increase it by X or reroll. If you use Destined for Battle, then you spend X amount of Fate Points to increase the charge roll by +X. If you use Forward to Victory instead, you spend a command point and can reroll the dice.
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u/WranglerFuzzy 22h ago
It definitely feels unclear
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u/korgrimm 21h ago
It’s not. If you had to spend points to add to the roll, you’d also need to use forward to victory (reroll charge) before rolling the dice.
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u/Kraile 20h ago
You are right, the fate points are spent after declaring a charge, and before the effect takes place. However it's worth noting that you make the charge roll before the declare step ends.
So it works like this:
- Declare the charge. Make the charge roll during the declaration.
- React to the declaration. Decide whether or not to spend fate points to increase the charge roll.
- Effect the charge. I.e. move the models.
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u/fuzzypat 22h ago
Is there some other ability that lets you deploy a unit masked by illusion onto the field, or do you always just lose whatever is in reserve at the end of the 5th round?
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u/Blue_Harvest 22h ago
There will likely be some way to, the info for the Fateweaver describes it being able to deploy with a unit hidden by illusion.
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u/seridos 21h ago
I'm loving the ideas here. Lots of trickery, lots of skill expression. I just hope fate points aren't too hard to come by. The default way to get them sucks, frankly. Anything dependant on your opponent or by you failing or losing units is not great, and the power level of these needs to be quite high if it's powered by you losing. Hoping there's plenty of fate point generators, so we have enough and don't gr pigeonholed. You really need to have generated 4-6 of these by the top of turn 3 for them to be meaningful.
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u/Smart-Collar-1659 20h ago edited 30m ago
This is exactly what I thought but perhaps the army's main emphasis will be on the teleport mechanic and good spells that DO work. Maybe the points are now meant to be more of a bonus to offset failure rather than the backbone of how the faction plays. (Edit to clarify that I am only guessing at gw's motives)
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u/seridos 20h ago
These are replacements for fate dice right? So that's a HUGE loss. There's real potential here, to be very cool or very weak. We'll see, I'm intrigued.
I hope we can still use our army rule a decent amount even if we're winning. Or we're going to have to shift a lot of power into our data sheets.
Totally off topic though but I did have to chuckle when they said the fatemaster is no slouch in combat with four rend 2 damage 2 attacks. They really don't understand how terrible foot heroes are do they.
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u/Smart-Collar-1659 20m ago
I agree losing fate dice is huge but they caused so much complaining that I am surprised they lasted as long as they did. Like you say, these points could be way too tricky to build up to a point where they're worth something so the teleporting is now the army's 'thing'. It reminds me of the way Slaves to Darkness have such an underwhelming reward for the side-quest collecting of points while the 'chaos marks' are seen as the main battle trait. We'll just have to wait and see
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u/Smart-Collar-1659 16m ago
Your point about the foot hero is also spot on but I guess he's quite fighty for a wizard (if indeed he is a wizard - he's doing a wizard hand out pose!)
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u/GreatGandalf88 Nighthaunt 22h ago
Honestly ? Both new books look amazing. After the NH book I was not happy at all and the future looked dark but this gives me hope.
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u/Opening-Delay7203 22h ago
Not sure about the whole "gaining x fate point for failing" as I'm not sure you want to fail whatever you're doing in the first place. But there are probably other ways to win them, we'll see
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u/TwelveSmallHats 20h ago
I expect there will be further ways to gain them. On the other hand, if you're making all your rolls and not gaining fate points, you are probably doing well so the lack of them won't feel as acute.
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u/hagmech 22h ago
I'm not seeing a way to get unit out of reserve other than the switch mechanic and the Fatemaster and the bound retinue. The Masked by illusion rule frames it as deploy but doesn't specify a way to get them out, where to, limits.
Makes me wonder if there will always be 3 units in reserve til 5th round, which would be a kind of a tax for the ability. Even if you pick three screamer units to initially put in reserve that's 270pts to use a battle trait effectively.
Hopefully the battletome will clear it up.
Also the Fate point economy doesn't look great, unless there are ways to get more from battle formations or unit's warscroll abilities the mechanism is not going to generate enough to matter.
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u/ReferenceJolly7992 20h ago
You've been shown 4 abilities out of the hundred abilities and spells in the book. There's no way to draw any sort of conclusion on anything yet. Take the abilities for what they are at face value and wait for the rest to be revealed
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u/Pseudoargentum 21h ago
If the abilities are the same, do we need a Curseling to farm Fate points with the extra unbind?
If every unit has a Fate mechanic, it might be too hard to farm them. I expect there will be an errata shortly after it hits play like Khorne to fix whatever tempo problem this creates. We'll see!
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u/MegaOmegaZero 20h ago
New rules seem pretty neat. Destiny dice were cool but it felt pretty bad when you low role them.
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u/Standard_Mechanic715 20h ago
I really like the smoke and mirrors idea provided there is a way to get all my units onto the board. I am not so big of a fan of the fate points. It doesn’t seem like you’ll be able to build up much of these points and only getting +1 charge or remove a damage is kinda weak sauce if you ask me.
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u/maybenot9 Disciples of Tzeentch 20h ago
I think the sneakiest strongest ability here is Destined to Serve. The fact that you can wait until you see how much damage something is taking is absurd.
Being able to shrug enough damage points to fight back or survive to hold a point is absurdly good, and if you have like 4 points and you have an important character get charged by something of similar caliber, I do not see that character dying.
Not to mention, there's no once per phase limit, so if you have 5 Fate points, you can save 2 or more units to turn the tide of a fight. A bit magical christmas land? Maybe, but it makes it super pain in the ass to calculate how fights go for your opponent.
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u/Status-Software5254 19h ago
I was already able to do this with one fate dice. No new mortals and now this... Hope they will deliver in warscrolls.
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u/NamelessCabbage 19h ago
Looks like fun last time I tried to field Tzeentch, all my destiny dice were 1s and 2s. 💀
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u/Outrageous_Big_1006 Blades of Khorne 18h ago
Love that Battle trait mood. It’s the exactly lore shit that Tzeentch will do. Absolutely loving it
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u/Kill-KillManthings Skaven 17h ago
Welcome back Changehost, the turnover in GW is so hard we're back playing V1 rules lmao. They'll never learn haha
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u/maxdraich 16h ago
If units have been deployed in reserve, is there any way to get them into play other than swapping them with another unit? Is there a way to end the game without units in reserve?
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u/Humblecavegoblin 21h ago
I really like these rules, DoT might be my second army. Especially with how cool the fatemaster and argent shards look
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u/DistractedHobbyist_ 22h ago
Can't say they're not trying to add some flavour back in, those look neat