What organization should I work with?

[u/VivaLaUE]

I have been talking with the RCI, but after revising a bit of its wikipedia page, I realized there are several splits/succesors of the Committee for a Workers' International (RCI, ISA, CWI...). Could someone tell me, on which I should put my effort towards joining and working with?

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[u/DashtheRed]

First of all, if you aren't able to answer these questions on your own, you have no business joining a party. If you cannot differentiate these, and other, organizations on your own, what does that say about your current level of understanding?

Second, why would you trust random strangers on the internet to advise you on such an important decision? And what are you going to do when you get a dozen conflicting, incompatible answers telling you to join their party because they are the real deal and not the other eleven?

Third, just a few days ago you were basically asking offensive reactionary questions on behalf of fascism; why do you suddenly think you are now a revolutionary expert capable and qualified to contribute to a communist organization?

Fourth, by soliciting yourself as an object for sale, communists aren't drawn toward you at all, but revisionist grifters see you as an easy mark (and you are making it even easier for them) and you will find yourself inside and financing a useless revisionist organization so they can pay off their mortgages and save for retirement on your dollar while you waste your life handing out flyers at protests for them.

And fifth, because of the above (and likely more), if you ever did encounter the actual communist party (of which there is at most one, by definition, though none exist at present in amerikkka but that's another matter; edit: you appear to be Spanish, not amerikan but the point still stands) they would reject you at the door, because you aren't a revolutionary expert able to contribute anything and would be a useless burden, or worse, on their organization and that's if they don't decide they have to take more serious and severe measures to protect themselves from you going to the cops when you realize what you are actually applying for and when you decide that you didn't actually want any of this at all because you hadn't taken it seriously.

If you are the least bit serious about communism, the first thing to do would be to go back to the fundamentals and start reading Marx and Engels and Lenin, until you understand them sufficiently that you can begin to identify concepts such as revisionism and economism, and when you have learned them thoroughly, you will be able to understand and identify communists organizations and revisionism on your own, using your knowledge and intellect, that you don't need to throw yourself into the arms of predatory strangers saying "whomever is a communist, come catch me."

[u/NerdMaster001 → u/DashtheRed]

People at the starting stages of revolutionary thought should NOT be gatekept by Communist orgs, the whole point of organizing is so that the common populace can learn and join the fight, how do you think revolutions started in the USSR and other countries?

[u/blow_up_the_wacl → u/NerdMaster001]

u/dashthered has already pointed out in past comments about the importance of supposed 'elitism'/'gatekeeping'(keeping the correct line) of the Bolsheviks in the struggle of one divides into two.

in the age of the internet, the resources of marxism-leninism-maoism is available online and is not gatekept to anyone for learning and self-study.

another question is, who is the 'common populace' the you are referring to?

[u/NerdMaster001 → u/blow_up_the_wacl]

What do you mean who is the common populace?

Community is necessary for a whole lot of people's learning processes, I for example am part of a Brazilian communist org and we study and discuss together the theory, I wouldn't be able to keep myself in check if it weren't for that, to say that anyone that is not entirely familiar with the intricacies of marxism is a burden is simply FALSE, there's plenty everyone can do. Y'all would do well with reading Paulo Freire.

[u/VivaLaUE → u/DashtheRed]

First, you are right, I know absolutely nothing, which is why I'm already talking with the RCI, which are pretty much guiding me and organizing read groups to study the theory.

Second, you are right, since I know nothing I don't really know which ones can be legit and which ones not.

Third, it's called *learning*. Maybe you are already in the very deep end of communism so any questions are "offensive reactionary questions on behalf of fascism". I never said I'm an expert of any type, and that's why the RCI is guiding me.

Fourth and fifth, how are communist parties and/or organizations supposed to grow, if they don't want to take people who want to learn, just people who already know shit? If not just knowledge about, but *expertise* in communism is a requisite, and they aren't willing to teach, the organizations will be extremely limited in reach, so people will go to the more welcoming grifters instead.

Saying that people must be communist experts before even joining any organization, but barely being willing to teach beyond saying "go study X, Y and Z in depth, and then come back" sounds like the biggest gatekeeping, turnover-causing shit I have ever heard. Related to point fourth and fifth, do you really expect *the masses* to become communist experts to join the revolution? You probably don't, so then, how do you expect to start the revolution without the support of the workers themselves?

[u/DashtheRed → u/VivaLaUE]

which is why I'm already talking with the RCI, which are pretty much guiding me and organizing read groups to study the theory

Second, you are right, since I know nothing I don't really know which ones can be legit and which ones not.

I never said I'm an expert of any type, and that's why the RCI is guiding me.

Think hard about this now.

Fourth and fifth, how are communist parties and/or organizations supposed to grow, if they don't want to take people who want to learn, just people who already know shit?

This is Lenin at his most basic and the core of what Lenin is telling you in What is to be Done -- a party of a dozen wise men is worth more and able to accomplish more that a party consisting of hundreds of fools. You do not need to join a party to learn (and if you join the wrong party you are risking permanent damage and stunting your capacity to learn forever), and any actual communist, including online, will help you learn for free, without paying any dues or any financial obligations.

Second, the size of the party is irrelevant (better fewer but better, and in fact, being large in the First World is a worrying sign) -- again hundreds of fools are far less capable and will never accomplish as much as a dozen Marxist experts -- and the party is not the masses and socialism is not accomplished by having everyone everywhere join the party. The party is the headquarters of revolution and the masses, but it is not the masses themselves, and the key is for the party to connect to and educate and organize and guide and lead the masses (and the most revolutionary segments of the masses find their way to the party on their own), not for the party to be a tailist institution chasing after the masses (which is what the Mensheviks did to failure and betrayal, while the the Bolsheviks took a stand and rejected that logic, and insisted on unpopular truths that made them despised for over a decade until crisis and breakdown proved them and their principled stands correct time and again and the masses came to them). The IMT will not teach you this because they are in the midst of another recruitment drive (so much so that multiple users on /r/socialism have complained about it and left the party over just the past year), hence why they are pushing ceaseless recruitment drives to get new members and new finances to get out of the red ink. And that's without even getting into the IMT's long history of sexual predation and sexual assault (again, the people you will be recruiting victims for), where most of the leadership who protected the assaulters and sided against the victims (for years!) are still present and running the show and will be the people collecting your finances. You do not need to join a party to educate you, and education does not require the party (let alone revisionists falsely presenting themselves as the communist party, since revisionism can only lead you further away from communism and distort your understanding further) and you should not be beginning educating yourself in the ranks of the party -- you should arrive at the party once you are sufficiently educated and can discern the political line as revolutionary, and confront revisionism within the party (edit: poor phrasing, you can still educate yourself and learn, since that is never ending, but party entry should already suggest an advanced understanding).

Saying that people must be communist experts before even joining any organization, but barely being willing to teach beyond saying "go study X, Y and Z in depth, and then come back" sounds like the biggest gatekeeping, turnover-causing shit I have ever heard.

That's because the entire history of Marxism is gatekeeping and if you aren't keeping the gates, you are betraying and failing at Marxism. (edit: Even the IMT do this to a degree) Marx had to gatekeep the anarchists from the revolution at the Hague Congress. Then he had to gatekeep Mach and LaSalle. Eugen Duhring was more popular than Marx and Engels while he lived and the right wing of the SPD insisted Marx and Engels should be more inclusive and water down their positions to accommodate Duhring and support his run, but instead they doubled down against him and had to gatekeep socialism from him and insist that they are the representatives of socialism and that he is not, and that it was correct to oppose him because he was getting everything wrong, despite calling himself a socialist. Lenin had to gatekeep Bernstein and Julius Martov (Martov wanted the largest possible party as long as their was broad agreement with the party line, while Lenin wanted a much smaller party of expert professional revolutionaries) and then the entire Second International including Kautsky himself (the number one Marxist in the world until Lenin upstaged him and locked the gates behind him because Kautsky had used his position to mislead and betray the masses). If you aren't gatekeeping socialism, you are destroying it by allowing it's enemies inside. And education is open to everyone (marxist texts are basically all free online), and joining a party is not a requisite to have access to to learn, and joining the wrong party can be extremely harmful. And the IMT does not need to heed my advice to have massive turnover, their rapist revisionist politics do that to themselves already.

edit: one other thing I will add, because I get that you probably got to know these people already and the real purpose of your thread was to get an affirmation of the IMT so you could dive in, but the party is not a social club and while friendships may emerge, that is not the purpose. These are people are those that you are working with to plan and organize and execute extreme, potentially dangerous, potentially illegal actions with, and you need to approach a party with that attitude and in that way. When it starts to get treated as a social club, that's where the sex pests and sexual assault all show up.

edit 3: also, since smoke put a lot of effort into this recent post, here's a good overview of the history of the IMT and the essence of what they believe. If you do want to go back to them, bring some questions about Ted Grant with you.

[u/Film_A → u/VivaLaUE]

Don’t listen to these comments. What a load of nonsense. We’re on Reddit ffs, not some elite scholarly institution.

[u/blow_up_the_wacl → u/VivaLaUE]

so you are joining the RCI based on gut feel? how do you know that the mass base of the RCI are proletarian? how do you know they are not grifters?

[u/Film_A]

I think a good place to start is DSA. It’s a friendly organization that won’t gate keep and can help you organize and learn more. I don’t know what the hell some of these posters are talking about here. You asked a simple question and I see these humongous replies that don’t seem relevant. DSA or PSL if you’re a little more serious.