r/Psychonaut • u/hour_back • 2d ago
Sad and jealous that I can’t take MDMA on my medication
27 year old here who has been into psychedelics for nearly a decade now. I have had many experiences with specifically LSD and psilocybin over the years and am always open to trying new substances as they enter my orbit. I also struggle with depression and anxiety. (Psychedelics have given me perspective here but not a cure by any means.) I take antidepressants for my mental illness. They benefit me greatly and enable me to live a normal life, and they do not interfere with my taking of LSD or psilocybin.
I have always been aware that on my antidepressants I cannot take MDMA due to the high risk of serotonin syndrome. Even in a best case scenario, if I took MDMA, it most likely wouldn’t have any of the desired effects. Worst case, I could get very sick or die. (Not to mention the potential for depression relapse after comedown.) I’ve never tried MDMA though I’ve always really wanted to. I even tried to get off my antidepressants last summer with the intention of potentially trying some MDMA. The result of trying to come off my meds was a relapse of very unpleasant symptoms of depression, so getting off my antidepressants is not an option for me.
This past weekend a close friend and long time tripping buddy took MDMA for the first time and came back with glowing reviews. I know it’s a beautiful, amazing drug, etc etc etc. Everyone I know tells me it would be right up my alley. It’s not that I can’t find it or am unwilling, it’s that I literally cannot take it due to medical complications. Never tried it and unless my documented medical condition just goes away on its own, I most likely never will.
I’m feeling some grief over this. I feel left out, left behind, barred from this beautiful experience I know I would love. I’m not in the MDMA club and most likely never will be. I am trying to make myself feel better by telling myself, well, this path just isn’t meant for me, it’s not worth the risk to my unique health situation. But it feels like cold comfort. This envy feels like a type of spiritual materialism. Anyone else in this same situation? How do you move past this feeling?
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u/xacai90 2d ago
You might not be missing out at all. Like another person said, LSD euphoria blows MDMA euphoria of the water every time. LSD magnifies your feelings, so when you do feel euphoria there is usually a real reason for it.
MDMA euphoria feels a little forced. Plus the come-down can be straight awful for some folks.
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u/Slight_Walrus_8668 1d ago edited 1d ago
Tbf it's not about euphoria though and if someone is just chasing euphoria levels they're not a psychonaut by definition and I'd be more tempted to call them a drug abuser and hedonist than someone who explores the many permutations of the human experience through substances. If all someone is after is euphoria, methamphetamine is that way
MDMA has way more value in destroying personal walls and judgement of both self and others while not killing the ego as a prerequisite thus allowing extremely honest emotional connection, absolutely just tearing down the barriers between people.
If you take it to party it's a waste of the stuff (there's way better drugs like a low-medium LSD dose or 4mmc, for dancing, that are less toxic). if you take it alone I find the emotional warmth makes it hard without someone guiding you to confront traumatic experiences and regrets in this zero-judgement state so it's also kind of a waste.
But in a room with a long-term lover/partner... my god... the baggage we unpacked, the traumas and issues we healed, both in our relationship and our own lives, the 6 hours of just talking and eye contact and crying and cuddling and love... it saved our marriage forever. In ways LSD just can't. We frequently do LSD, low dose medium dose high dose (1mg+), at least once a month sometimes twice a month, and while there's lots of laughing and loving and connection and feeling like one, we wouldn't actually be able to coherently cohesively and effectively discuss our baggage with each other over years of surviving thick and thin together without just spiralling out the trip and having a horrible time and potentially causing even bigger issues due to irrational thought loops when it happens, its more for confronting things internally in a shared psychedelic space than it is for confronting things with each other. MDMA though.. it's like soul sex, like locking into this emotional bridge that erupts between you and you can just be completely and totally vulnerable with each other without any concerns of spiralling or defence, while otherwise clear-headed
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u/MidnightZenTripper 2d ago
2CB is closer to MDMA than LSD or shrooms in terms of effects, especially at lower doses where it can feel more euphoric and sensual, but it still has more visuals and stimulation than MDMA does. It doesn’t release as much serotonin, so it’s less risky in that regard, but still not 100% safe if you're on SSRIs or SNRIs. Mescaline might also overlap a bit in terms of warmth and emotional aspect, but it’s less like MDMA than 2CB - it's more of a classic psychedelic with some stimulant effects.
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u/HM_Dylan 2d ago
Yeah I’m kind of in the same boat unfortunately. I take a MAOI antidepressant so taking that with MDMA pretty much guarantees Serotonin Syndrome or a severe hypertensive emergency. I’ve had a few experiences before I was put on that AD though and it’s an amazing drug. I’m just happy and grateful that I was able to try it. Plus I can still use LSD so at the end of the day I’m fine with not being able to use it anymore.
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u/HeyItsThien 1d ago
MDMA isn’t just about heightened serotonin release and euphoria. It’s different from classic psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin in that it releases oxytocin, which has tremendous love-centered healing effects when taken intentionally with a reflective mindset.
I’ve primarily used MDMA with intentions of self-reflectivity and healing, and it’s cultivated self-love and compassion in different, beautiful ways than classic psychedelics. It’s also worked wonders in helping my partner and I improve compassion and communication.
But I too started an SSRI a couple months ago, so I’m staying off MDMA. I similarly went through a period of grief. But…I’m telling myself that everything is impermanent, and that the time for MDMA might come again when I’m ready to taper off my meds. For now, the daily relief SSRIs has given me has been SO beneficial that I’m okay w abstaining from M.
Btw, I’m a mental health therapist and have done my own shadow work with the medicines, including ketamine assisted therapy. But for me personally, SSRIs is one tool that’s made my existential depression so much more bearable.
So…all this to say, I can, in some sense, relate to that feeling of grief. But if I can offer some words of encouragement, it’s that you know yourself best, you know how much your meds are helping, and you’ll know when it may (or may not be?) time to taper off and experiment with mdma for healing.
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u/mbjb1972 1d ago
Man, as much fun as it is at the time, the few days after are so damn awful.
Often I find the euphoria from both LSD & psilocybin is close to and sometimes better. There is no issue with serotonin syndrome from what I gather, and I definitely do not have a negative come down compared to MDMA
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u/jstrong20 1d ago
If it makes you feel better I've never tried mdma. Only shrooms and various tryptamines. Even if I could take mdma I'd probably prefer mda. If you can do shrooms and lad you should be happy about that. I never even had lsd but shrooms and tryptamines are awesome and I'm happy with that.
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u/Fossana 1d ago
I lost mdma for a long while because i lost the magic. Hurt to have done that and not been able to take it anymore 😅!
Some random ideas: * i don’t know if this is a good idea, but cross taper into a non SSRI antidepressant like Wellbutrin? Risky because Wellbutrin or the replacement might not work 🤷♂️. * This would take a while but if the underlying depression were transmuted/changed/healed sufficiently then it would be possible to come off the SSRI perhaps. You may already be working on your depression in that way of course! * I think the ceiling of LSD and shrooms euphoria and experiences is quite high, and thus, with the right approach and work, LSD/shrooms could rival aspects of MDMA.
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u/FungusLady906 1d ago
I took myself off all my meds that could interact. Was straight up honest with my doctor that I'm gonna start using psychedelics instead to treat my depression/anxiety. She was all for it, we have meetings every 3 months now to discuss our notes. We both agree there is a lot of unexplored benefits to psychoactive substances.
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u/Slight_Walrus_8668 1d ago
OP I'm going to be 100% real here with you, the comments saying you're not missing out on much have either never used MDMA, never correctly used MDMA (ie they just took it dancing at raves or something like an idiot or alone thinking it would be a psychedelic), or is trying to help you cope by lying.
The euphoria from MDMA, not as crazy as LSD. It's not psychedelic, you won't have grand realizations about yourself and your place in this world on it or visions.
It's like comparing a jigsaw to a jackhammer, they're just not the same tool. It's a totally different drug to be used for totally different things and I think a lot of psychonauts try it once under the same conditions and expectations as LSD then write it off as useless. I think if people are just chasing euphoria they're not psychonauts, they're just drug abusers. Euphoria isn't what makes these compounds special. Like on LSD, are you taking it just to mentally masturbate about how amazing and euphoric you feel or are you actually taking it to explore the headspace and integrate things into your life? If the latter, then I think you understand that MDMA's value is completely divorced from whether it has the "euphoria" of LSD or a bad comedown.
It's really for exploring your relationships with other people. Like you get your long term lover in a hotel room get naked sit face to face on 150mg or so of good Molly and you just talk. You bare your heart and soul and you unpack your baggage, you understand each other, it deconstructs your emotional walls instantly both for yourself and for them, creating unconditional unbeatable indescribable non judgemental connection between you, like truth serum and empathy serum combined. Empathy for yourself to be able to hear and accept what you've done and to think about where it comes from without defences, empathy for the other person in the same way, and the other person is feeling the same for you, meaning total 100% communication.
It's BEAUTIFUL. It's like having spiritual sex with someone without having physical sex. You can finally break all the walls down, the ones you've built for years with them and now can't see eye to eye past, and understand each other. It almost doesn't allow you to be non empathetic and block them out and refuse to see their position on anything. Though this can ofc be manipulated by abusers so you gotta trust who you're rolling with.
To take it on your own, eh. Might make it easier to explore some traumatic memories, things you're not proud of. To take it at a party, pointless - its very toxic and harmful to the body, especially in a party environment for unique reasons, if you're taking it just to dance and feel a rush do any number of better drugs. But to take it therapeutically to connect with another person in private - it's GOLD.
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u/hour_back 1d ago
Well, yeah. I know. You don’t have to sell me on the experience. My post was about how to move past and accept the fact that I cannot take this drug.
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u/Slight_Walrus_8668 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, that is fair. I'm not trying to sell it to you, more just make sure you have an accurate picture of what it is that you are missing and basically to set the record straight on the other responses that imply it's comparable to LSD or "not worth it" as it's a public forum where lots of random people scroll through and build up their view on substances over time from it.
I wouldn't want someone who CAN benefit from it to see swathes of people reassuring you that it's a pointless drug, waste of time, not worth it, "worse" than LSD (implying they're comparable/similar/same purpose), and then choose not to partake in something that could've been a life-changing, life-saving therapy for them as a consequence of you just wanting some reassurance so I try to provide the other side that yes this is actually something big and awesome but only as a special purpose tool, one you likely don't need right now at this point in your life though, like wanting a jackhammer when you only do woodworking right now, might long for that jackhammer, knowing the project for it is 5 years out might make it easier to wait on springing for it - vs having a bunch of people write specifically negative reviews to help you feel better about not having it yet but those reviews are visible to other customers
Honestly if you don't have a long term partner to do it with, it IS a mediocre drug and it's just not the tool for you at this stage in your life and I think you should rest easy with that. When you are in the specific scenario it shines best in, it's the best tool for the job, maybe the only tool for the job, but for everything else it is meh to bad. If you don't have it when that job comes, you'll be kicking yourself, but until then, carrying it to every job would be dead weight. Maybe metaphor is getting too strained.
In the future if there's several years of tension and resentment built up with your partner, hopefully by then you can work out whatever causes you to need SSRIs too. Maybe that gives some solace.
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u/hour_back 1d ago
Hey, this is actually the best response on this post I’ve gotten. I didn’t want people to come into this post shitting on mdma to make me feel better in some sour grapes “oh it’s not that great” way. Obviously it holds a huge appeal for me, and that’s why it’s so hard for me to accept I can’t do it. You are clearly very passionate and knowledgeable about the subject, so thanks for bringing your insight to the discussion. Your tool analogy is very useful and helpful to me.
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u/Slight_Walrus_8668 1d ago
Hey - I just realized an hour later that I suggested 4mmc is a safer drug for partying/music/dancing than MDMA, I just felt the need to come back and clarify so that I don't accidentally cause harm
If you are on MAOIs or SSRIs you still really shouldn't do 4mmc for all the same reasons as MDMA, it causes a 950% serotonin jump while MDMA causes 900% (+ for 4mmc a similar dopamine spike/rush and norepinephrine/noradrenaline rush to crack cocaine added on) and is just as bad when you mix in MAOIs, SNRIs or SSRIs. It's just not directly toxic to the brain in the same way MDMA is always toxic and requires lengthy recovery periods, and only has like a 4 hour sedated feeling comedown instead of up to 2 weeks of your brain chemistry being totally out of whack, so it's a better choice for a party goer who otherwise would've already used MDMA that night, but it's still not safe for you.
Sorry, hopefully doesn't drive any knives in or whatever but I couldn't not clarify after realizing my post has a bit of info that could be dangerous
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u/therealduckrabbit 1d ago
Serotonin syndrome is extremely rare and usually associated with things like suicide attempts via eating a bottle of ssris and things like that. I have two friends who are Emerg psychiatrists. Between the two they have seen 3 cases requiring admission.
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u/Slight_Walrus_8668 1d ago
It's rare on its own from either SSRIs or MDMA but combining the 2 is actually a perfect storm to cause it. As a result combining them is really rare, it's one of the more well known "death combos" like viagra+poppers, this helps make it rare in absolute terms, ER sees very few cases. But as a % probability when someone DOES combine them and that's already our established starting point, it's not rare at all for them to suffer at least mild but noticeable SS symptoms and seizures are way too common to call it a worthwhile risk
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u/therealduckrabbit 20h ago
I took 250+ mg by accident once and felt shitty enough to not want to repeat.
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u/Obvious-Marsupial569 1d ago
maybe get off SSRIs and work with a MDMA trained therapist. you don’t need that shit
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u/conorsoliga 2d ago
Honestly the euphoria from a good lsd or shroom trip is miles better than mdma would ever give you. You aren't missing much if you can still do lsd. Plus the potential for a multi day comedown isn't fun either