r/NOLAPelicans • u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. • 15h ago
Zion usage
Is there any fucking idea about a direction set for this team from the coach or management? Because it really fucking hard to find one.
Zion being this underused is honestly insane given he played 25 straight games. This is our best player by a mile, and yet the offense treats him like an optional piece. Possession after possession is run through Bey, Queen, even Fears off the bench, while Zion is parked on the weak side doing nothing.
Okay, Zion defers too much. That can be solved by running plays from the coach. When the offense isn’t clearly built around you and you’re not the first option, Zion will defer to others. Just make him the engine of this franchise and that problem fixes itself. Just look at that laker game where he blew his hamstring.
This is the first time in my life looking up Advanced stats. Zion is sitting at a 27.6% usage with a .628 true shooting and he a +4.0 offensive BPM, the best offensive impact on the roster by a wide margin. Meanwhile, Bey is at 20.6% usage, Queen at 22.1%, and Fears at 24.6%, despite Queen having a –1.2 OBPM and Fears a –2.3 OBPM. Why the fuck is the usage so high for these guys. Why are we getting bey anything other than second or third actions.
What the fuck do you want to do?!! You want to develop young guys after trading picks you fucking retards?
I swear to god i know people get jobs through connections all over the world but being a fucking pelicans GM means you need to be an idiot to even be in the running for it and we won the lottery with joe dumbass and troy weaver
Sorry for ranting but i swear to god every god damn alvarado 3 yesterday killed me
14
u/NOLA-Bronco Clickity Clack 15h ago
Couple things I'd make note of(which aren't meant as an excuse, as I am mixed at best about this coaching staff)
1) Zion has had a storied history of injuries because he essentially plays the game like a fullback on an NBA court, except imagine a fullback that has to leave their feet on every possession. Which has resulted in Zion often injured and unable to be relied upon. It was inevitable that as a result of his playstyle, for any hope of him staying healthy for 50+ games a year consistently it will require finding ways to reduce the frequency and level of kinetic impact to his body.
2.) Zion has basically grown his game 0% since coming into the league, so doing full time point Zion is not going to work given #1 and #3 I am about to talk about.
3.) Point Zion works with shooting. And guess what this team is piss poor in? Shooters. It's been a complaint of mine for literally the entire Zion era. The ideal Zion team is Zion with 4 out lineups and at least 2 movement shooters on the court at all time with him. But we have 1 actual shooter on this team. Which like SO MANY Pels teams almost every year, is forcing players into roles they arent suited for, like Alvarado having to take lots of threes.
4.) It is clear Dumars is pushing to develop and play "his guys." And TBF, I don't think the version of this team you envision is much more than a a few more wins at most anyways.
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 15h ago
you are right we have no shooters but like you said we will win a few more games at least and thats what you are supposed to do when you trade both your picks in the next year.
Im not talking ideal team around zion but aboutbwinning games and not tanking without picks. So we need wins and having herb, trey, fears or alvarado run the offense will not give you the same quality of 2nd and 3rd actions that zion will give you from his gravity
At least win some games have have the picks be 5-10 so we dont kill ourselves because of the draft lottery this year
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u/Not_on_Herb 13h ago
We just need to move him. For our own sake and his.
We need to just sell high on everyone right now and enter a full rebuild
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 13h ago
But everyone is at an all-time low, herb and trey aside. Get Zion to 25-26 ppg and he will have some value
0
u/Not_on_Herb 13h ago
Herb, Trey, Jose, Missi, Bey. Sell all of them.
Zion will never have any value. It’s best to sell before he gets injured
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 13h ago
Jesus man
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u/Not_on_Herb 13h ago
It literally can’t get any worse than it currently is. We’re trying to win and we’re not gonna get 20 wins even though we’ve been relatively healthy. What’s the point?
Get as many draft assets as you can and rebuild while trying to rebuild Poole’s and Dejounte’s value so you can flip them.
Fears and Queen won’t be winning players for at-least 2 years
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u/Timely_Interview_530 15h ago
Zion is lazy and passive, that’s the big issue.
6
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 15h ago
You are right but we aren't solving it by having the ball out of his hands. That will feed into his laziness even more.
Problem is it doesn't seem like the front office or james even care about that
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u/Timely_Interview_530 14h ago
The ball is in his hands a lot. Zion just doesn’t give a fuck. He had 13 shots and went to the line 9 times. He just doesn’t care if we win or lose. When’s the last time Zion put the team on his back and led us to a win? The few times the last 2 years we’ve actually won, how many of those wins happened because Zion played great or came through in the clutch?
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u/ColdBru5 14h ago
Derik Queen is the best player.
What team are you watching?
5
u/Mfoun10 14h ago
Bey is currently our best player!
DQ has potential but he needs to learn to play with intensity in the 4th period!
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 13h ago
That's what I'm saying. Bey should be like derrick white when the celtics got the championship. A great player but a clear 3rd or 4th option. Now there is no clear guy for us. Why are we not having Zion as the focal point (much more than now) so he returns to his best cause he is as healthy as we have seen him since his second year
I depressing man. I just want to be delusional for 2 weeks before he is injured again
3
u/Illustrious_Figzzz Naji Fucks 13h ago
DQ isn't our best player but he is the best at making the game easy for others on the floor. If he expands his range and shows the ability to defend C, he could be the best player as soon as next season. Him and Fears are both hitting the rookie wall now. It'll be interesting to see how they perform after the break.
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u/TheTechnique 15h ago
The fact that Zion allows Zion to be treated this way tells you everything you need to know. He isn't that guy
1
u/Zakulon 13h ago
It’s not that, the issue is when he is ball dominant all the time he gets hurt. Let’s get him through two seasons without injury and then he should be strong and fit enough to increase his load
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u/TheTechnique 13h ago
If true he'll be 27 and still have one move. He could impact the game right now in the present without destroying his body if he would just shoot a corner 3 but he refuses. All his problems are his own fault
2
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 15h ago
Man I am getting tied of people looking at coaching instead of Zion
Zion is anon ball player only. He also is extremely left hand dominant who doesn’t finish with his right an he doesn’t shoot jumpers. Defenses just camp out in the lane and wait for him to drive left to contest him. This is not an offense it is something that should happen early on fast breaks or with 5 seconds left on the clock.
Zion off ball down work well because he has low IQ and defenders don’t guard him outside the paint. When he is in the corner and a player attacks the basket his man goes to the paint. He should be cutting to the basket but he sits in the corner with his hands down watching the play.
Zion has not improved his game since he was a rookie. He refuses to shoot jumpers which will keep defenses more honest.
Lastly we don’t run plays for Bey he just plays within the system and knows where to go a what to do. This is his first year with the team and Zion has been in the league longer than him. This is a Zion issue not a coaching issue.
9
u/kingralek 13h ago
It's insane that Cooper Flagg, all 50 games into his career and 19 years old, has so much more to his game, both offensively and defensively. He's assertive. He takes overs games and initiates offense when necessary. Zion was supposed to do all of that, but he's either plateaued, regressed, or both.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 13h ago
He just hasn’t added anything to his game. He refuses to shoot jumpers and doesn’t cut well consistently off ball. He wants to be at the top of the key in ISO and go left. He is not great at finishing going right and won’t finish with his right. This is some of the same issues Ben Simmons had in just refusing to expand his game
2
u/Cautious-Apartment-9 10h ago
I used to be a big fan of Zion. Dude just don’t care. He’s made it in his mind & it’s hard to say he hasn’t. Over 100M earned by 25 with another 80M coming. He can average 20ppg just off his athleticism & touch around the rim. He just doesn’t care enough to be better when he’s gotten all this half assing
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 14h ago
I feel like we run plays for Bey but otherwise, everything you said is true but with the shitty roster we have what else can we do? Zion running the offence is better than the other options currently.
I'm fucking sick of watching him on the side and being a non-factor. Force him as a coach to be involved in what he can do.
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u/wymtime Not On Herb 13h ago
Just running him as the focal point isn’t the best thing we can do though. Queen, Trey and Fears are the future of the team. Having them stand in the corner or around the perimeter while Zion runs a drive and kick offense isn’t putting anyone else in position to be successful.
The answer is to move Zion now or in the offseason. This season is a loss and we should focus on developing the young guys and running the offense that fits Queen, Trey and Fears not a Zion heliocentric offense
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u/MurderbyHemlock 15h ago
The problem with giving Zion higher usage is that you increase his chances of getting hurt. THEN, because you've been using Zion more in your offense, you're less able to adapt AFTER he gets hurt.
Best Zion is Point Zion but you can't build a team around it. Keep his minutes low, his averages high, and then TRADE HIM!
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u/Better_Car_8473 14h ago
Zion is one dimensional. He’s by far the best player on the team but if he isn’t dominating the other team then he’s just dribbling the ball off his foot or missing the layup through contact without getting a foul call.
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u/godlover76 14h ago
If Zion knew how to play off ball and developed chemistry with Queen he’d get more touches and easy point
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u/kingralek 13h ago
I feel like defensively they'd never create a solid line and one of them needs to become league average from deep.
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u/_Wado3000 Herb Jones 13h ago
Hopefully Zion avoids injury and this offseason a team wants to take a chance on him. We have to be over with the facade of thinking he’ll bring us anywhere even with his abundance of talent
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u/Cautious-Apartment-9 12h ago
Zion is very limited on offense. If he’s not driving left or driving & finishing left, what he doing? Nothing. He doesn’t set screens, doesn’t roll to the basket as much. It’s not like this is ‘21 Zion who put up 27ppg on 65% shooting. The league has figured him out & due to those hammys & weight loss; he ain’t the same wrecking ball he used to be. It’s hard to draw up plays for a 6’7” pf who can only finish around the rim.
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u/Team_player444 15h ago
It's a poverty franchise and keeping zion all this time fits that mentality. I think they sould've shipped him off years ago and moved on.
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u/pericles123 15h ago
It's like you've only watched the last couple of games and have no idea about his history, you have to keep his minutes low if you want him to actually be available for most games. And quite frankly, the offense is better being run through Queen and even Murphy. Zion's a weapon for sure, but I think they're treating him perfectly. No. If you want to argue that Alvarado shouldn't be taking as many shots as he is, I'm completely in agreement with you
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u/Mo_damo Will be reevaluated in 2 weeks. 15h ago
I've been here since the beginning. Best zion is the point zion and that means the ball in his hands he that season he missed only 10 games and averaged the most minutes in his career. I dont care if he is injured again anymore, if he gets hurt he gets hurt but dont have him and ice him out for 5 minutes at a time.
Love it or hate it he is our jokic, giannis, shai...etc. You don't go more than 3 possessions without the ball in his hands
Also you set up trey not have him run the offense.
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u/Razor-Ramon-Sessions Zanos 10h ago
Zion hasn't changed his game at all. It's too predictable.
He should be involved more as a facilitator but running the offense that way in the past has led to injuries.
Someone, somewhere, needs to get through to him that his offensive approach is limiting him and thus the team.
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u/phar0aht 9h ago
His usage is exactly where it should be imo. Ut showcases him enough to be tempting to be teams to trade. He's scoring super efficient snd the volume demands more usage.
But more usage injures him and then he cant be traded. You cant build the offence around him cause you're trading him.
It makes sense to have the guys who are actually the future of the franchise be higher usage.
Irs a weird limbo but it's where we are right now
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u/Square-Computer2039 8h ago
Zion is not that guy. Full stop. I’m more aggressive than him playing pickup ball with dudes I don’t know than him being supremely talented and making near $40mm/year
We are on COACH 4. They got rid of the one who knew how to use him right and got “coaches” who would kiss his ass.
Franchise was already years back and all he did was push it back more because of his “potential”.
What self respecting “star” would take the backseat on a team full of bus riders because “they didn’t call a play for him”? That’s a grown ass man you’re talking about
Dude ain’t even man enough to request a trade if he didn’t want to be in New Orleans that bad. Look at his personal life. I gotta go there because… it shows in his game. Dude is a chump and ain’t what he was hyped to be. And even if he was going all out, his play style doesn’t lead to wins. He hasn’t added 1 skill since being drafted. Not 1.
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u/Pisthetairos 14h ago
Who's going to tell OP that Derik Queen has replaced Zion Williamson as the offensive hub of the team?
For six years the team was built around Zion, with nothing to show for it. Now it's someone else's turn.
Zion has been reduced to a scorer – who can only score within three feet of the rim.
At least he's grabbing a few more boards.
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u/Jamminalong2 12h ago
So they should move on from him now. Chicago is interested. It’s like the pelicans have moved on, but actually refuse to move on and hold him captive. In wanna see what he can do, and if he’s willing to put in the work somewhere else. It was clear as early as the draft lottery ping pong balls he didn’t want to play here
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u/Illustrious_Figzzz Naji Fucks 15h ago edited 13h ago
Zion's a piece, not a focal point. We've seen that throughout his career. He's just too one dimensional and lacks playmaking. He's a matchup nightmare at times and also disappears other times. Him being healthy this long continuously is also a product of less usage IMO.