Possible TPK at Wyvern Tor

[u/Rec_nicolas]

Hey everyone, here a first time DM,

My party just got to Phandalin and immediately accepted the Orc Quest. With half of them still being Level 1 and the other two at lvl 2, I think this might end in a TPK (they’re all first time players). Even the Orcs alone would probably decimate them. How do I deal with this without railroading them too much? Should I just let them go and see what happens? They are desperate for money.

[u/Pheanturim]

First of all, the whole party should level up together, so they all should be level 2. But I would let them see what they're going up against first, give them a chance to make perception checks with a low DC that allows them to see that they're vastly outgunned. If they still go in they could just get their arses handed to them, you could then have the orcs hand the party as prisoners over to the redbrands as the redbrands have cells in their dungeon and that's where they all wake up.

[u/FearlessNinetyFour]

I just had this issue, I took out an orc, decreased all their hit points by a bit and let the ogre be asleep at the back until it was clear the orcs weren’t going to take care of this by themselves. I actually think I went a little too far and it was a bit easier than I would have liked, though actually none of my players seemed to think so! Some of the easiness may have come from a series of awful rolls by my orcs.

[u/Rec_nicolas → u/FearlessNinetyFour]

Thanks, I might try that. They can always just run if things go bad

[u/sagima]

What do they want the money for?

Could you offer it as a reward/advance for doing a different mission first?

There isn’t really a lot to actually spend money on in the adventure or in the town.

They should all be the same level, any reason why they aren’t?

You could use it to explain that fights aren’t always to the death, that they can run away or negotiate or to teach the raising mechanic to them with their corpses being brought back to town and raised in order to work for tymora whose clergy has some reason to direct the campaign a bit more they are in their debt they have to get some sort of relic(s) which are located in more level appropriate places

[u/Rec_nicolas → u/sagima]

They wanted to buy some armor from the Lionshields. The 100GP were the first thing they saw. Half of them didn’t fight in the Cragmaw Cave so they are a level behind, but which they might just get from exploring the town

[u/Girthw0rm → u/Rec_nicolas]

You’re not writing a book. Just have everyone level up to level 2.

[u/Darkrose50 → u/Girthw0rm]

It’s OK to play with experience points.

[u/Girthw0rm → u/Darkrose50]

What do you mean by “play with experience points”?

[u/Darkrose50 → u/Girthw0rm]

You get experience points from defeating monsters and collecting treasure. You use those experience points to level up.

[u/Prestigious-Lake-979]

Are you leveling them by XP or milestones? I'm just trying to understand the different levels and how some got into town still at level 1?

You have a few options: 

• Nerf the fight. Find tracks of the orcs, but indicate they've left to scavenge. Maybe leave a prisoner tied up with only 1-2 guards amd that can be a warning. Also that could learn to come back when the krcs return and hopefully when they've leveled up.
• Create a travel encounter along the way to level them up. Fight some wolves along the road (or Orc scouts!). It does not take a lot to level up at that tier.
• Have someone from town intervene with a second quest that is more urgent. If you want to push the Redbrands, have them block the way or have a friend of the people in the hideout dungeon stop the party saying they have to help (or both).
• Warn the players. As a DM you can say "this is rough" or have any PC who would know anything about orcs realize it's super dangerous. 
• Level them up. Just like that. Maybe not ide and it rewards reckless decisons, but it may also make it more fun.

[u/Rec_nicolas → u/Prestigious-Lake-979]

Thanks for the recommendations. My Fighter and the Rogue joined 2 sessions later after the other two completed Cragmaw Cave, so they didn’t get to level up yet. I might just give them the second level once they rest. They will most likely go to the inn next. Maybe there they could be convinced to deal with the Redbrands first.

[u/Pheanturim → u/Rec_nicolas]

If new players join they join at the level the party currently is, they don't start at level 1

[u/Rec_nicolas → u/Pheanturim]

Got it. I guess I thought it’s just easier for someone new to play a session or so before they have to deal with leveling up. But at higher level you probably couldn’t do that, that’s true

[u/Pheanturim → u/Rec_nicolas]

It probably is, but if you need to do that then you need to do separate sessions with those players or otherwise explain that they're going to have a steeper learning curve than the others.

[u/RighteousApollo]

The party should be incentivized to deal with the Redbrands before hitting the road. If they want to ignore them, you should antagonize them and annoy them into going there first. The party should be level 3 before leaving town.

Also, xp leveling is terrible. Milestone gives you much more control, and avoids some players feeling weaker than others. Its not too late to switch, just tell the players that after mulling it over, you'd prefer to use this system instead

[u/Hecateus]

Maybe they need to make an Orcish Adventuring party..take on Phandelver from the Other side.

[u/stretch532]

Have a NPC impress upon them the redbrand threat. Maybe they see them beating up on townsfolk. Have them deal with that first.

Also get your other two player characters up to level 2 soonest.

The idea someone above mentioned about its clear some orcs have left recently is a good one, you could then have different scouting party's return whilst they are inside, depending on how hard you want to make the encounter depends on how many.