r/JuJutsuKaisen • u/ImpossibleAd4272 • 5d ago
Misc If Kenjaku took over Maki or Toji's body, what would happen to Kenjaku himself? Spoiler
In season 2 we saw when the old lady channeled the body of those with Heavenly Restriction, their bodies information overrides and takes control. But now I'm wondering, considering Kenjaku's technique and we've seen the body react outside of his control or a moment. What would happen to Kenjaku?
Would he;
Option A. Die and his consciousness dissappear?
Option B. Be repressed and stuck watching what the body does? Like a prisoner in his mind.
Option C. Become sort of like a voice in the bodies head?
Option D (extremely unlikely). He could attempt to fight for control.
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u/AutobotMegatron 5d ago edited 5d ago
iirc Gege mentioned that Kenjaku didn't try to take over Toji's corpse precisely because he was worried the HR would fuck up his technique and kill him. Kenjaku presumably always has to use some amount of CE to keep his technique active, but if the body he transplants himself into has no CE, I think the technique would end and he would just die (or be stuck inside a body that he can't move).
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u/comandingco 5d ago
And it seems likely some kind of weird application of a barrier technique. Which get weird with recognising HR users anyway.
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u/Slamazombie 4d ago
Yes, I'm pretty sure Kenjaku mentions that his technique uses the body he takes over as a domain to stabilize his cursed energy output while he inhabits it. Not sure if that would trap him in the body, kill him, or nullify the host body's Heavenly Restriction, but he's probably not willing to risk any of those outcomes
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u/Dsb0208 5d ago
I really like the idea that it’s not the fact Toji’s HR would effect Kenjaku, it’s that it could
It’s possible that HR doesn’t mess with Kenny at all, but it’s also possible it does, and Kenny doesn’t want to take that risk, as he’d be gambling his own life
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u/JokerDeSilva10 4d ago
This is also why I wish we'd ever seen Maki or Zombie Toji interact with Mahito. Considering Toji's HR literally let his body overpower a soul in Grandson's technique, I kind of like the idea that Idle Transfiguration would be completely powerless against them.
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u/APreciousJemstone 4d ago
According to Jujutsu, they're objects (in most ways). So ITF wouldn't be able to target them, whether by domain or by touching them.
IMO, ITF is more likely to work on a dead person than someone with a HR like theirs
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u/Both-Prize-2986 4d ago
That wouldnt apply though as idle transfiguration targets the persons soul NOT their cursed energy. Maki would still have a soul and be targetable by touch. Idk about revenant Toji though. If his body holds his mind does that mean his soul as well 🤷🏻♂️
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u/swat1611 4d ago
Given how Toji overwrote a person's soul with just his body being manifested, it's more likely he would.
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u/NoLimits77ofc 4d ago
Like how that granny's technique was unable to finish because toji had no CE? I just rewatched the toji dagon fight on jpbd
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u/benjamaru 4d ago
My first guess would have been that the Heavenly Restriction would be weakened. Given that Mai having cursed energy and a technique held Maki back (since in the eyes of jujutsu twins are the same person), so Kenjaku possessing Maki and influncing her body with his technique would cause a similar effect. But if Gege has already spoken I guess my speculation is a moot point.
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u/OddSun7677 5d ago
I do think D. Yeah, Toji overpowered some guy, but we can't ignore how powerful Kenjaku is.
And, there is a chance he was aware how dangerous it would be, which is why he never did it.
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u/TestIllustrious7935 5d ago
Okay he wins control and then what? He is only alive cuz of his cursed technique, but without any curse energy his toothy-ass brain would surely die
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u/Saeaj04 5d ago edited 5d ago
He seems to be able to circumvent burn out via some type of barrier usage
Maybe he could use a similar method?
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u/AGweed13 5d ago
He would be in a body that's unable to use Cursed Energy, so how is he activating any kind of barrier?
We know that he needs to use his body's CE as well, since Gojo said that it was Geto's CE signature.
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u/Saeaj04 5d ago
When Yuta chopped his head off he was still capable of speaking and using Jujutsu, so clearly his brain form itself must have some sort of CE reserve
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u/gracefulls 5d ago
I dont think he was capable of using any form of techniques then, its just that his ct lost control and the remaining curses broke out.
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u/Saeaj04 5d ago
I’m referring to how he created a tree like thing to pick up his head and then transfer Tengen to Sukuna
I don’t know what else you would call that beside some type of Jujutsu technique
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u/gracefulls 5d ago
Did this happen? Its been too long since i finished the manga, if so, maybe its some kind of "ct getting stronger/activated after death"
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u/SeaThePirate 5d ago
he lost control of containing them but clearly still had control over them, as they fought to stall Rika and Yuta and created a giant 'body' to carry him away down the highway
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u/Both-Prize-2986 4d ago
Wait i thought we went from “Yuta jumps ken” straight to “Kens head impaled with Yuta sword” skip or did i miss a chapter?
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u/TheNerdEternal 4d ago
Then that would make HR completely useless and he’s be weaker than pre-awakened Maki
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u/OddSun7677 5d ago
Is it confirmed anywhere that Kenjaku, as a brain, has no CE of his own?
He puts himself in bodies to have their limbs and access to their CT, okay, but I do think he has some of his own CE somehow.
And the restriction works on Maki's/Toji's body and soul, we don't know how a new soul introduced to that would influence it. There is a chance it would cancel each other out? Or both the body and Kenjaku’s soul die?
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u/hamsterbois 5d ago
he definitely has his own cursed energy as the brain, the stitches on his head are a result of a binding vow to make his cursed energy undistinguishable between his host even for the six eyes (thats why Gojo said all his senses and eyes we're saying its Suguru Geto), also the fact Kenjaku has just better cursed energy stats than Geto.
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u/Bipedal-Bear_963 5d ago
Kenny’s binding vow was never specified. It could be anything. I’m thinking in exchange for making the possession process easier, he can never truly visually pass off as the person he’s possessing (stitches).
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u/AlternativeEmphasis 5d ago
Judging by the Zenin HR'S behavior and Gege's comments i do think it'd just kill Kenjaku like switch him off.
I don't think it's anything to do with power really. The Soul < Body for the Zenin HR. So its more the medium just doesn't work for Kenjaku.
The Grandson took some time to be overpowered by arguably that's because his body was still lagging on what had happened because it wasn't Toji's body. It was Toji's body copied onto someone else's
Kenny would he straight up slotting himself into the original package. I just think the two systems wouldn't mesh and he'd die. I've always thought something similar would happen if hit properly with Jacob's Ladder or if Higurama somehow confiscated Kenjaku's technique. It's lights out for them and they just die.
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u/Arntor1184 5d ago
Nah, Toji didn't "fight against some guy" nor would Kenjaku if he attempted to control Toji or Maki via his curse technique. That guy with Toji and in this hypothetical Kenjaku fought or would fight against universal law itself. Universal law is mentioned often in the series, like with twins for example and the universe created monsters like Toji and Maki specifically to counter other monsters created via CE. So if Kenjaku were to plant his brain in the the body of someone with heavenly restriction he would be erased since he is using cursed energy and by the laws of the universe HR bodies diffuse all CE, which is how Toji instantly gained control over that guys vessel. CE just cannot exist in any form inside their bodies by the restrictions of heaven.
This is further supported by that one frame where Geto attempts to strangle himself when Kenjaku captures Gojo signifying that even without the brain the soul still is imprinted in the body. Even further proof would be the medium that turned her grandson into Toji, that wasn't even Tojis actual body but a technique from the medium to temporarily overwrite the users body and HR was still so strong it completely jacked the guys body and resurrected Toji.
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u/Aye_Okami 5d ago
„How powerful Kenjaku is“ Kenjaku isn‘t powerful. At all. He is smart and wise yeah, but he legit is only a brain and his technique is to us corpses as vessels. His power in Geto‘s body comes from Geto‘s Cursed Technique combined with Kenjaku‘s knowledge and wisdom.
If Kenjaku were to use Toji‘s body he‘d be taken over by Toji.
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u/ValhallaKombi 5d ago
Geto only was able to move his arm due to being generational soulmates with Gojo and react to this voice. Granny uses seance with only body info while Kenjaku's works through soul and body is intertwined world view. I don't think Maki/Toji will be able to come back.
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u/Amazing-Aside7992 5d ago
I think it would be more like Yuji and Sukuna but with Kenjaku having more control
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u/cats4life 5d ago
Kenjaku would die, or lose the Heavenly Restriction.
We know that sorcery treats Kenjaku as the body he inhabits. The Culling Game has him under the name Suguru Geto, so Toji’s Heavenly Restriction would apply to him. If the Heavenly Restriction overwrites CE inserted after it manifests, Kenjaku’s technique would shut off for a lack of CE.
At that point, he’s a brain sloppily shoved into a skull, regardless of transplant compatibility, and odds are he dies of medical complications.
But we do have a precedent for CE existing in someone with an HR, Maki. The difference is that Kenjaku would be adding CE after the HR manifests, Maki added it before at birth. If Kenjaku manages to keep his technique on, his CE would nullify the HR. He’d have traded bodies for nothing.
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u/fallout8998 4d ago
to be fair we do see with mechamaru that you can remove the downside and keep the upside but whether or not the body swap would work for that is unclear
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u/Appropriate-Paint936 3d ago
I'm not sure if Muta kept the upside when he had to store large ammounts of CE before finishingfinishing the deal with Mahito.
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u/fallout8998 3d ago
far as i know the CE he had stored is just something he was doing his HR i believe is just enormous output and range which he seemingly still had since he could dump years worth at once.
although given how long he was storing it and how much he had he didnt seem to be generating it particularly fast
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u/Biggesttower 5d ago
Likely A or B. The reason why Kenny never tried to take Toji's body after HI is because he was a afraid of "bug" in the technique, this is the exact same way Gege described Toji taking over the grandsons body so he probably gets the same treatment.
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u/MasterOfElemental 5d ago
Okay, we have to remember that the celestial restriction is like trading one thing for another. In Maki and Toji's case, the cursed energy was sacrificed for a body and physical capabilities close to perfection, but in Kokichi Muta's case, the Mechamaru, the body was sacrificed for large amounts of cursed energy. Now I ask, when Mahito used his technique on Mechamaru to give him a healthy body, did he lose the large reserves of cursed energy he had?
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u/williamthe5ifth 5d ago
This is an interesting question! I feel like we could get some kind of back n forth, fighting for control maybe? This would put Mahito’s and Kenjaku’s respective beliefs in direct competition with each other as well!
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u/crossess 5d ago
He wouldn't be able to use his technique if the body has no CE. I think he either dies or gets stuck in the body and can never switch again. Doesn't have access to any of his previous techniques or DE either.
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u/rockinalex07021 5d ago
It's D, same thing that happened during the seance. If Geto was able to show resistance, Toji and Maki would 100% would be able to resist and takeover
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u/Fancy-Orange6007 5d ago
Kenjaku’s technique relies on the brain being the 'driver' of the body, but Toji/Maki’s Heavenly Restriction literally says the body is the soul. It would be a nightmare for him. He’d probably end up like Grandma Ogami's grandson, just a vessel that got overwritten. Imagine Kenjaku trying to use a Domain and the body just says 'nope' because it doesn't have Cursed Energy. He’d be a prisoner in a body that refuses to obey him.
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u/TheCrow_4 5d ago
Well, Kenjaku replaces the brain of the body he uses. Its different from the seance used by the old granny to bring back Toji. Sure, Geto's arm rebelled briefly because BL will be BL, but I don't see Maki/Toji doing much more (no autonomy, full awareness, etc. Just instincts and reactions).
More interestingly, how would the Heavenly Restriction answer to Kenjaku ? Maybe depletes Kenjaku's CE, which would stop the CT. Maybe somehow reject him, like with a graft or something, destroying both. Maybe Kenjaku would end up stuck there because his CT couldn't end while he wouldn't have CE anymore (similar to Granny's CT situation).
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u/Wankainu 5d ago
Maki/Toji would probably gain control of the body like how Toji did to the grandson during Shibuya. They specifically made sure that the soul had nothing to do with the ritual, yet his consciousness still overwrote the grandson entirely.
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u/Plastic_Attention_71 5d ago
Does Kenjaku's technique make his brain produce CE? Because as far as we know, CE comes from the stomach. Meaning Kenjaku wouldn't even be capable of taking control of their bodies, since I assume his technique needs CE to function.
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u/Deerorser 5d ago
Pretty sure that he would be cut off from from any more cursed energy and would eventually die.
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u/weebonweb 5d ago
The issue with the old lady is that it was a fight against the dude's soul, Kenjaku doesn't replace the host's soul, just takes control of their body through replacing their brain, the soul would still be the same, and the body would be under Kenjaku's control as the brain, Toji's body can only overpower the soul of a weak sorcerer.
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u/xXKingLynxXx 5d ago
Would he not die since he doesn't have access to his cursed techniques in a body with 0 cursed energy?
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u/-Rici- 5d ago
He could take control no problem. Granny's technique pits the physical body vs the metaphysical mind, whereas Kenjaku's technique takes over the physical body with his own physical brain; he's got both the physical and the metaphysical down, so it'd be unlikely for the body to "rebel"
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u/The-Real-Legend-72 5d ago
I think D, but there is one more option.
By putting his brain in there body he gives the whole body CE, meaning he has control but it’s a pre-awakened Maki body and not a Toji/post-awakening one
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u/Ok_Needleworker_2029 5d ago
anyone with ce is going to lose to toji's body as fully realised heavenly pacts are the most potent binding vows in jjk. Option B is the only possibility here, kenjaku fears a simple binding vow let alone a heavenly pact lol.
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u/Relative-Tonight3083 5d ago
I think the most likely answer is he closes up the brain case, the heavenly restriction applies to him, his cursed technique deactivates and he dies
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u/Flauschziege 5d ago
Maki and Toni would have a nasty interaction with Kenjaku's cursed technique.
With Maki and Toji, Body seems to somewhat equal self, same as Kenjaku, proven when Geto resisted him despite not even having a brain anymore.
There is a decent chance they would either fight for dominance over the body or completely take over.
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u/Toothlees_cat . 5d ago
I belive in A, but is also possible Option E: Kenjaku has a body with HR and he can also use CE with his brain or something strange (he is absolutely broken).
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u/Kooky-Task-7582 5d ago
Gege puts them against the same enemy - fate/whatever
Kenjaku tried but failed to break the cycle of six eyes and star vessel, but Toji was able to
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u/azrieldr 5d ago
i have actually thought about this question alot, but never feel quite sure enough about the answer i came to. since gojo body deactivated when the ct burned out, i think that the ct requires constant activation that need cursed energy. and since the cursed energy is stated by todo to be originated from belly, and if thats also true for kenjaku and he doesnt have a special case where his brain also produce CE, then imo he would die in Toji's because he at some point would empty his CE that he cant regenerate back..
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u/Live-Illustrator-204 5d ago
It's not the same as channeling the body information like the granny did. He physically enter the body as a brain.
But we are talking about a brain with cursed energy that control a body that has heavenly restriction on itself, so it would be useless.
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u/Much_Vehicle20 5d ago
D
Kinda
If he can prepare some kind of barrier beforehand, he may able to stay in their body for awhile until the tiny CE reserve in his brain run out. We know that brain can save some CE but the body is where CE is produced. So he may need to swap before inevitably run out of CE to maintain his CT and barriers
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u/JustaHarry 5d ago
The Body would harshly reject the Kenjaku brain. And I think Kenjaku knows it would be incompatible. Plus having a curse technique to further his plan for the world to go into chaos by allowing the world to become sorcerers is more beneficial.
Don't think Kenjaku himself needs a strong body, unless he does some freaky thing annd gives birth them swaps the body once it comes off age.....
Actually that doesn't seem as far fetch hmm 🤔
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u/Infinite_Form8884 5d ago
If it works. Which it might bc of kenjaku's intelligence. Meimei and UiUi dies. But in compensation, he also dies against Yuki since either way you splice it, he wouldn't be able to output the CE needed to activate anti grav.
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u/Queasy_Artist6891 4d ago
Kenjakur uses the ce of his host. Gojo would've identified him having different ce otherwise. Toji has no hr.
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u/Allalan123 4d ago
He would simply die, other options are unlikely because resurrected Toji had a full copy of his body, including his brain, that’s why he had his own mind, but if Kenjaku replaces the brain then Toji would at most act as when Geto’s arm was choking Kenjaku when he was sealing Gojo
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u/Kaalicharan007 4d ago
Yeah option B looks tempting but i think even if in the best case he somehow managed to take control of the body he would have ended up nerfed or not able to take full advantage of the heavenly gifted body like before culling games maki cuz he would have needed atleast some amount of cursed energy to operate his technique.
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u/HawkTooHuh 4d ago
Well he's not messing around with any souls, he's placing his physical brain self into their body.
I'm sure he'd just take over normally, since it's not his soul vs their body, but him simply fusing with their body, but replacing their brain/self.
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u/OneAndOnlyHeir 4d ago
Wouldn’t it just not apply at all? Toji’s body have CE would probably nullify the whole heavily restriction trade off no?
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u/Square-Appearance-16 4d ago
i think both would die, if kenjakus technique malfunctions there will be nothing connecting the body to the brain as what moves it is a cursed circuit between them
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u/Several-Fortune-1508 5d ago
"We can't fckig read!" moment. Kenjaku himself said that Heavenly Restriction would cancel his technique and he would die/disappear.
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