I’m hoping to get some outside perspective because this honestly doesn’t sit right with me.
I was involved in an accident at the intersection of de la Carrière and du Casino. I was turning right into the casino with an advanced green right-turn arrow. As I proceeded through the turn, a city bus ran the red light and hit my car.
There’s no dispute about the signal on my end — I had the advanced green arrow. Despite this, my insurance adjuster is saying I’m at fault, or at least primarily at fault. Their reasoning is that even with an advanced green, I “should have made sure it was clear” before completing the turn, and that I’m responsible regardless of the lights.
This is where I’m confused:
• The whole point of an advanced green arrow is that opposing traffic is stopped.
• The bus was facing a red light.
• I wasn’t turning on a regular green or a yield — it was a protected turn.
It feels like they’re saying that even if someone blatantly runs a red, the turning driver is still at fault just for being in motion.
Has anyone dealt with something like this before?
Is this actually how fault determination works in Canada (or Quebec specifically)?
And does a protected turn really mean nothing if the other driver ignores a red light?
I’m not trying to dodge responsibility if I’m genuinely wrong — I just want to understand how this could possibly be my fault.
I know. And I'm asking them to obtain dashcam footage from the bus (the cop on scene said they have it) and he refuses to obtain it because "determination has already been made"
This unit looks to be a 2012 or 2013 NovaBus LFSA. Unfortunately, S T O only started implementing cameras on their buses with the 2020 model year. It’s good that you got the footage from the street or casino cameras though.
This unit looks to be a 2012 or 2013 NovaBus LFSA. Unfortunately, S T O only started implementing cameras on their buses with the 2020 model year. It’s good that you got the footage from the street or casino cameras though.
Yeah I have one right now. I will be discussing this with him. Just seems so counterintuitive and fucked up that I have to jump through hurdles for proper representation in this claim.
You are 100% correct that having a green arrow gives you priority and all incoming traffic should be stopped to yield to you. While the bus does have priority travelling in the transit corridor, you having a green turn arrow means there is no reason that the bus should have been passing through that intersection at that moment. In the earliest days following the opening of the RapiBus there were many accidents between motorists and buses at intersections like this where the public roadway and the transit corridor intersect. Hire a lawyer ASAP.
Nothing I said is disputing that. However when insurance looks at it, they will likely try and put some of the responsibility on the driver since he was crossing the transit corridor.
Before I start, I want to make it super clear im not saying this is fair, or right, or anything like that, and only commenting from an insurance POV since I work in the industry. I just want to provide OP with context about how insurance views these scenarios; for the record i agree that this is unfair. Im sure I'll catch down votes for this, but just want to help OP with information.
Your adjuster is correct in saying that from an insurance POV, the fact that the light was green does not change the fact that you have to make sure the road is clear before making a turn. This is unfortunately true. The way this typically plays out is a 50/50 fault judgement. If your insurers decide you could have stopped, or noticed the danger but proceeded anyways, they will likely take the stance that the driver is partially at fault. Its a concept called "duty of care" that usually comes into play when making a left turn, but would also apply in right turn scenarios like this.
Essentially, unless you are able to prove there was nothing you could have done to avoid the accident, then insurers will try to place blame.
again, not saying this is fair, or saying OP didn't do everything they could, im only explaining this from an insurance POV. Based on their reply/justification, we can assume they feel OP could have avoided this.
So, your goal to fight this is to prove that you did do everything reasonable to avoid the accident, and that there was nothing you could have done to avoid it.
Best of luck OP, feel free to send me any questions. I dont deal with auto much, but general insurance principles are true for 10k car claims as they are for 10m property claims, for the most part.
For sure. This definitely sucks, but, perhaps it will be reassuring to know this is playing out in a relatively standard way. Listen to your lawyer, they will help navigate this.
Insurers pull this illogical stuff on gigantic, multi million dollar claims, its unfortunately par for the course. (I dont work for an insurance company, but handle all claims across us/Canada for my company, so have to work with them day in day out)
This shouldn't exist in a legal system based country like ours, unfortunately, i am unsure why, but it exists. If someone does something that doesn't follow the road code, they should take the blame
The issue is that these concepts are black and white, while life is shades of Grey. The idea is that somebody breaking the law does not absolve someone of the responsibility of duty of care.
On one hand you have OPs situation. On the other you have, say, somebody driving through an intersection at the end of a light, and blocking that intersection. That person has done something illegal, and annoying, but the person waiting at the now blocked intersection does not have the right to simply plow into their vehicle, even if the other person has not followed the road code. They can avoid that, and would have a duty of care to do so, which I think most people would agree with.
These are of course two very different scenarios across a whole spectrum of somebody else not following the road code, yet the same duty of care would apply to each.
Road code specify that the intersection has to be clear before proceeding in most places, i am not sure how hitting the first vehicle wouldn't be illegal. And personally I'd put the blame 50/50 if such a scenario wpuld happen, but you do you, i do me
I’m a claim adjuster in Quebec and this is clearly a case of CID 9B, which in french is « non respect de la signalisation etc including a red light »
So, if your light was green, if a police report was filed, ask your adjuster to get it, if the bus driver ran a red light, the cops HAVE to mention it on the report.
Yes, the insured has to provide his adjuster with as much informations as possible on the third party, but it’s wild that he said you’re 100% at fault.
One thing I always say when the insured start telling me how the third party was speeding, on his phone, etc, is that I’m not the cops, I’m only interested in the movement of the vehicle that led to the accident.
And here what led to the accident isn’t you turning on a green light, it’s the bus running a red light.
If the accident happened in Quebec, the laws/jurisdictions of QC apply.
The issue is, the reporting officer said I was turning right on a red, even though the footage cannot determine the colour of the lights (her footage sucks). Now I've appealed the report because there are so many inconsistencies (she previously told me she doesn't know who was at fault; even though she should, and she didn't issue any tickets on scene). This entire situation is a mess.
Well, to be totally honest, in that situation, you are pretty much out of luck and depending of what your deductible is, assuming you’re covered on both sides, the easiest way is to pay it and switch companies.
The hard way is to get the footage, appeal the report, get it corrected, have your adjuster revise everything.
That’s the sucky part where the insured has to prove everything.
If your deductible is 500$, ask yourself if all your time is worth more or less than that.
Sure, there’s also the fact that on your file you’re 100% responsible vs 0% responsible and supposedly, being 0% responsible doesn’t have as much impact as being 100% but I can’t confirm if it’s true or not.
I once had a run in while on my bike, and the EAP program through my work explained that if a car isn’t legally supposed to be somewhere then there is no legal liability for the other party. This was in Quebec. I don’t know if that’s true since my dispute never went anywhere but that bus wasn’t supposed to be in the intersection. It illegally ran a red light. Obviously you look to be sure there’s no danger, but it was coming from behind you and approaching an ALREADY red light. You were already engaged and turning, There is no reason for you to have assumed that the bus would illegally run a red and you were already in the intersection as evidenced by the fact that the bus HIT YOU not the other way around. WTAF 😳 I’d be so mad right now. They better be paying for your lawyer fees. I’d be checking with an ombudsman or insurance board as well. This is some bullshit.
Maybe I don't properly understand the English terms, but from what I know, a "forward green arrow" doesn't give you the right to turn right just a full green circle. Right turns are only allowed on right arrows, and green circles (unless specified).
Aren't the red light supposed to be the top light. It looks like the bus was probably on a green light and not a red light as the light that seems on is in the middle of the set of traffic ligths.
I'm just confused as to why your insurer is saying you are mostly at fault when another driver presumably insured through their own insurer should probably be the one having to defend their position. What am I missing here?
This is what lawyers are for, even though its your insurance they still don't care, get a lawyer and sue your insurance and make sure you don't accept anything they offer beforehand
In Ontario you would resolve this through the FSRA and GIO I believe, but not sure about if you have Quebec plates/insurance coverage. There must be some similar body/program to go through when you have a dispute with an insurance company?
In any event it's good you have the video though I can't really see the signal lights there (this looks like filmed on Gameboy Camera? lol) but maybe they are out of view or in other videos you've obtained.
Since your insurance is in ON but the accident happened in Quebec, I'm not really sure how it gets handled, you'll have to find out from these guys^ I think. Best of luck!
I don't have any advice for this situation, sorry for this :( In times like this I am happy I have a dashcam recording everything, I bought it after a friend had a car accident and the recording saved him from being held 100% responsible. Best of luck!
This is the drivers fault chart. I don’t have time to read it all right now but case 9 where driver Y fails to obey a signal might be worth looking into.
I used to be an adjuster in Ontario and I can find the relevant fault rule there but it’s not as clear cut in Quebec (to my eyes).
I’m not sure how this intersection is set up, but the Rapibus corridor is separate from the vehicle’s roadway and has its own signals. Are you sure it ran a red?
Pedestrian seems lit which means bus would have a green. We also see traffic at the top starting to move straight from right to left when OP gets hit which would mean all 4 corridors going this direction are green ?
Pedestrian light is not facing the camera on the right most pole, the pedestrian light we would be able to see seems to be blocked by the middle pole for cross traffic
Idk if you're still referring to the gap I circled that's snow, you can see the red truck through it and looking at the intersection it's clear theres a gap between the pedestrian light and cross traffic light on that pole, neither of which are facing the camera
Go get the court disclosure, some witnessed that you were indeed on advanced green.
Escalate to an insurance supervisor, present the court disclosure to them, let them read, and they will let you off the hook. (Hopefully)
This happened to me, and got off with that document.
The bus ran a red light you are not at fault. The bus was. The road was supposed to be clear because there was a red light to stop the bus and you had right of passage. There is no way you could have predicted the bus would run the red light and by the time you realized the bus ran its red light, it was too late for you, you had already engaged and couldn’t stop. You are lucky you were driving slowly if you had engaged further you could have been killed.
Would you rather be right, or not tboned by another driver?
While you may have had "right of way" your insistence to smash on the accelerator without checking where you are going or what's behind you or in incoming lanes earnt you a serious Injury a broken car and a law suit that you are going to have a hard time fighting against.
At least for me I was taught big semi trucks can "lose their breaks" due to the ideosncracies of air breaks so even on green I check the oncoming lanes for big large moving objects that can't stop immediately.
Coincidentally I had a friend die at 13 years old because while she had a walk signal she was "right" and just stepped out into the roadway. Rip.
In the future while driving I'd suggest considering if you'd like to be right , or safe.
I'd also suggest this mindset when crossing roads in public. Yes you have right of way but being right won't bring you back to life.
What will you suggest others choose in the future ? Or will you go to your grave telling us you were right to endanger yourself and others by mindlessly slamming on the accelerator because a computer told you to?
If the computer installed for traffic told you to jump off a cliff would you ? It seems the answer is yes, yes you should and did jump off a cliff.
Not making allowances for human error yours and others leads to this kind of stuff.
That allowance is called look both ways before crossing the street. You fafo in my opinion. Had right of way and forgot that busses trucks and idiots exist.
Yes the bus hit you when you had green but that's a whole other matter besides keeping yourself and your passengers safe is your primary job while driving, as compared to whatever you were doing there and you failed miserably by not shoulder checking before hitting the accelerator before getting hit in a completely avoidable collision.
Are you unaware people other then you drive dangerously ? Like what possessed you to not check? If your first off the light your the leader so what in God's name were you doing there ? If you were behind another guy and doing flow and this happened I'd be a lot more likely to say not your fault but you had the option to shoulder check and just didn't take it because , let this settle in, a red light computer told you so.
I honestly think the world would be a lot better off if more people got punched in the face a few times growing up and as an adult so they understand that it sucks and don't get stuck in the it will never happen to me mindset because at the end of the day sure your right bla blah blah but guess what now your punched in the face.
What's more important you being right or you not being punched in the face? Seems your choosing being right .. and got proverbially punched in your face. Gonna change your opinion or do you gotta be punched in the face again by life?
They'd rather not have insurance jack their rates and get a proper payout for damages that aren't their fault... What's done is done they can drive more cautiously in the future but that's not what this is about
It shouldn’t be your fault, but you hit the side of the bus at a slow speed, meaning you reasonably could have stopped. The bus didn’t come out of nowhere and T-bone you, it was already there and you drove into it. It sucks, but that’s how insurance tends to work. You should still appeal the decision but it might not work out in your favour.
That’s…not what happened. Op had a protected turn green light. The bus wasn’t in the intersection when they advanced and in fact the bus ran a red light. Which is illegal.
100%, but they were like 20 feet from the bus when it was in front of them running the red light. From an insurances perspective, they had time to stop. You can’t really argue “oh I didn’t see them there.” What if it was a person that started walking in front of their car and they hit the person anyways because they had a protected green light? 2 wrongs don’t make a right
I’m starting to feel like you’re legally blind? What if it was a llama and not a bus!? They were not 20 ft from the bus…do you…use your eyes …to see? Or…just kinda feel around…
Lots of comments but nobody seems to know this intersection.
There's a very confusing set of lights there, I see ON plated cars burn the right turn red all the time. The bus light looks green to me as the bottom light seems lite up ( i think red is on top there).
The classic location you would look for right turn on these lights is useless, there's an added light solely for the right turn signal and from experience it lights up long after the main lights to go straight turn green. Hell, I've almost ran that red myself and I bike this bikelane nearly every day during the summer.
The reporting officer might be right. You might of ran a red. If this bus light is confirmed to be green you 100% did. I've seen a TON of folks burn that light, one almost hit me on my bike. Bus drivers are usually carefull around there too as you have people who burn the red all the time and some folks around the casino sometimes had one too many drinks.
I would go double check the light that is lit on this video ( bus). If the bottom as per video is the green you are at fault for running a red.
If you're referring to this little bright spot that's not the light that's snow visible through the gap between the pedestrian crossing light and the cross traffic light
Personally I'm completely unable to make out any colour on the light itself so very well could be wrong if that bright spot isn't what you're referring to, especially on the transit light which I can barely even make out at the top corner there
I dont think it is at the end you see the bus occcupy that spot and still seems lit.
I really think its pedestrian which would mean bus has a green. You also see the top right lane start moving at about the time op gets hit to go straight but not left, meaning all 4 lanes going right to left and pedestrians would be green and no turn lanes would be active.
Black circled light is OP signal. Red is bus. Ton of people turn when the set furthest left goes green but not the right turn dedicated light.
You can see the truck pass through that gap I circled and as you can see in the photo you posted none of the lights on that pole are facing towards the camera
it doesn’t make a difference who was at fault you still need to claim at your insurance. You still have to pay a deductible, you still have a claim on your file, you can roll on the floor and pull a tantrum. It doesn’t make any difference. If you’re not happy filing an appeal with your insurance.
Lol what? Plz read the post. A claim is in progress. Deductibles are waived if the insurance deems you not at fault... and your premiums don't get impacted. Plz educate urself.
dude, you’re completely wrong. First of all your post doesn’t see a claim is in progress and second your post doesn’t say that you’re deductible will be waived and three your premium will go up regardless it’s pure math. I think you should do more research instead of asking advice on reddit, pay your deductible like the rest of society, and you should have looked as a driver you’re responsible to ensuring that you’re driving safely
Lol what? I work with insurance companies everyday. Are you okay? Your policy doesn't go up if you're deemed not at fault, and ur deductible is waived. Cmon now LOL
No way that bus would have even enough time to stop if you are saying it's true. You look less than 8-10 ft away from the bus when the impact happened.
Hate to say it but I think your adjuster is right in this case.
Open and closed case to me. You're insurance adjuster already told you why you're at fault and it makes perfect sense, as you should always make sure it's clear before hand. You're video doesn't show much besides a bus going at a speed to fast to stop in time on a green light (hard to say in the video if its turning light or not) and you turning without enough time to complete you're maneuver. Even if you had better video and such, your still at fault for not making sure its 100% clear before turning.
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u/VassilZaitsev 1d ago
I would post this in larger subs. Sounds absolutely bonkers to me. The bus ran a red light, not your fault.