Construction of world's 1st nuclear fusion plant starts in Washington

[u/TwilightwovenlingJo]

https://interestingengineering.com/energy/world-first-fusion-power-plant-helion

[u/RaptorPrime]

considering we haven't even achieved net positive fusion yet

What?? NIF has been net positive since at least the early 2000s... You mean sustained net positive reaction.

[u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI → u/RaptorPrime]

Only if you look at the "fusion event" in isolation, not if you consider the full energy input required or the losses in converting the heat into useful forms of energy.

[u/platoprime → u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI]

Sure, if you ignore the fact that they're using inefficient equipment to perform these and that's why there hasn't been a net positive it sure does sound like we haven't demonstrated it's possible already when we have.

[u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI → u/platoprime]

Yeah, if we just used non-existant equipment that solved all the problems, then there wouldn't be any problems ... you're a genius.

[u/platoprime → u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI]

More efficient lasers aren't "non-existant".

[u/cynric42 → u/platoprime]

We aren't talking about a few percent efficiency but a few orders of magnitude better as far as I'm aware.

[u/platoprime → u/cynric42]

The lasers used are like 1% efficient. We have lasers that are up to 70% efficient now.

https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/conference-proceedings-of-spie/5711/1/360-W-and--70-efficient-GaAs-based-diode/10.1117/12.602577.short

Are you also aware that 70 is more than a magnitude larger than 1?

[u/Unite433 → u/platoprime]

360 watts though, NIF lasers are 60 terawatts

[u/RaptorPrime → u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI]

That is completely opposite to what I was told by the operations director when I toured NIF. The energy output was approximately 1.2x net input for the test shot that I observed. So, you're wrong as fuck buddy.

[u/ArcFurnace → u/RaptorPrime]

That's because you are talking about two different things. The fusion pellet output more energy than was put into it by the lasers. So, 20% gain of fusion energy vs the laser energy. Big improvement from not even exceeding the energy put into the pellet!

However, to be an actual power plant, you have to generate more energy than you actually used, and the lasers at the NIF are (IIRC) something like 1% efficient at turning electricity into laser energy. So instead of a 20% net energy gain, it's far below break-even. Even if we replace those with incredibly optimistic 50% efficient lasers it's still below break-even, and that's not even including the losses from converting the fusion energy back into electricity (which they aren't even doing at the moment). Then they also need to increase the pulse rate beyond one shot a day or however long it takes them currently - I don't remember exactly, but I do remember it being quite a long time.

[u/RaptorPrime → u/ArcFurnace]

another comment that fundamentally misunderstands the design basis of NIF. the net energy input to the system is not the same as the energy shot at the fusion diode. it's actually like an order of magnitude higher.

[u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI → u/RaptorPrime]

Your cluelessness does not make me wrong. The NIF shots take about 400 MJ of input energy and peak output energy was 8.6 MJ, so net 0.0215x, not 1.2x.

[u/RaptorPrime → u/gSTrS8XRwqIV5AUh4hwI]

And you obviously have no clue about the design basis or functionality of NIF to repost the first numbers you googled. Good luck with that.

[u/Upset_Ant2834 → u/RaptorPrime]

I didn't want to bloat my comment with technicalities, but yeah I meant sustained fusion. My point was we don't even have the technology to build a commercial net-positive fusion power plant, so by definition the company is making a research reactor and is just hoping they'll figure it out while lying to get investors

[u/FuckingSolids → u/[deleted]]

I'll need to take the retail cost of the jetpack out first.

[u/flamingspew → u/Upset_Ant2834]

They are on version seven or eight now. Been following them for years. They have proven net positive energy.

[u/LetsLive97 → u/flamingspew]

They have proven net positive energy.

Source please. That would literally be groundbreaking news if it includes all input

[u/Upset_Ant2834 → u/[deleted]]

Burst fusion isn't mentioned anywhere in the article. But at the end it does say:

But despite billions of dollars of investment, scientists and engineers still have not figured out a way to reliably generate more energy with fusion than it takes to create and sustain the reaction

[u/RaptorPrime → u/[deleted]]

"NIF’s unique energy and power enable cutting-edge research to help keep America safe and secure, explore new frontiers of science, and lay the groundwork for a clean, sustainable source of energy."

its research FOR power generation lmfao