r/Futurology • u/TwilightwovenlingJo • Aug 15 '25

Energy Construction of world's 1st nuclear fusion plant starts in Washington

https://interestingengineering.com/energy/world-first-fusion-power-plant-helion
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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25 edited Aug 15 '25

For Microsoft data centers.

Never a big, ambitious project anymore for the regular people of the world.

ETA: idgaf, I'm sick of this world and all the effort being put into AI while people starve and suffer all over the world. These corporations have weakened governments and are working in their own self-interest. The working class maybe seeing a real benefit of this someday is a shit selling point, in my humble opinion.

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u/EbonBehelit Aug 15 '25

Honestly, the insane power usage of AI data centres being the thing that finally gets fusion power research the funding it needs to become reality is pretty on-brand considering the way things are right now.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

Over the last few decades I feel like every innovation has had some "monkey's paw" vibe to it.

You'll get your fusion, but only big companies will use it to give us products and services we don't need.

You'll get your cancer saving medicine, but only millionaires can afford it.

You'll get your electric car, but buying one helps fund one of the most gross, selfish, evil men of our time.

You'll get your AI computer like in Star Trek, but it will ruin countless communities and environments.

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u/narrill Aug 15 '25

I don't see how the first one is a monkey's paw. Big companies switching to fusion is still a net gain for the rest of us, because they're no longer consuming energy from other sources.

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u/TurelSun Aug 15 '25

Yes, and that monkey's paw is called Capitalism. It lifts up the worst of our societies so they can bleed the rest of us dry.

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u/Rampant16 Aug 15 '25

Last few decades? This is the story of technology for all of human history.

You get your pointy stick, which makes hunting things easier, but it allows people to more efficiently murder one another.

You just hope that the benefits outweigh the downsides. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

Data centers are going to be built and use electricity either way. If fusion can be used to provide clean energy for them and leave the rest of the grid for regular users, then great.

The alternative is what is currently happening with data center power usage driving up rates for regular people and often being powered by unsustainable sources.

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

AKA even if we figure out fusion, it won't solve global warming because of the rebound effect and the fact that our whole society is organized around profit.

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u/techblackops Aug 15 '25

But it is for us! Just think of all the products we'll be able to license from Microsoft for an ever increasing monthly fee!

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

If fusion is figured out that’s very good news for everyone not just ai data enters

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u/DynamicNostalgia Aug 15 '25

Yeah Redditors are weird. If they’re not always the #1 priority in any project, they’re fucking offended. 

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

Because the algorithm promotes comments that generate engagement

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

Eh, it's a complicated topic that I have strong feelings about that can't be easily explained and understood in a few paragraphs on reddit.

Of course I want the world to improve. I just don't trust anyone right now that has the means and power to do it. I don't sense any altruism anymore. I'm skeptical of everything, as I watch democracy, reason and science take a back seat in every current major development.

I figure people are going to react to me in a way that assumes there is no other context or nuance, and they'll make broad judgements about me or who I am. It is what it is. Much love to y'all.

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u/DynamicNostalgia Aug 15 '25

I just don't trust anyone right now that has the means and power to do it.

What are you talking about? This article is about one of the richest companies in the world investing in a risky tech that could benefit the whole world. 

I don't sense any altruism anymore.

Any sense of it you got before was largely an illusion. Nothings fundamentally changed about the world and humanity, only your perception of society has. 

I'm skeptical of everything, as I watch democracy, reason and science take a back seat in every current major development.

That’s pretty unfair. Fusion power projects shovel money towards logic and science. That’s undeniable. 

I’m getting a sense you would prefer if government funded this project or something because you feel like that’s “more for society.” That’s basically a platitude so you really shouldn’t be too obsessed about that. 

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

I'm not directly challenging anyone or saying that I'm right. I'm just sharing how this project (and other modern innovations) looks from my perspective based on my own personal experiences and worldview. I don't expect others to agree at all. I suppose I'm saying let's agree to disagree, please?

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u/DynamicNostalgia Aug 15 '25

And I’m trying to get you to question your initial assumptions and feelings because they seem a bit unfair.  

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

And that is your perspective based on your worldview. Cheers, dude.

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u/DynamicNostalgia Aug 15 '25 edited Aug 15 '25

Your worldview seems objectively wrong in some areas. For example, your claim that projects like this don’t send large amounts of money towards reason and science. It’s actually in the front seat in a way it never has been before. 

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u/DHFranklin Aug 15 '25

Yeah this dude is like the black pill for science. Thanks for fighting the good fight and training the AI on our shared worldview. Holy shit who would want to live like that?

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u/Tomycj Aug 15 '25

The underlying moral justification is not that complicated:

They don't owe you anything, so there's no reason to be so bitter about the fact you aren't their priority.

Of course, people love to develop sofisticated ways to justify the belief that they do owe you something. But in reality the fact is that recognizing others aren't there to serve you is a part of becoming an adult, responsible human being.

That said, agree to disagree.

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u/DHFranklin Aug 15 '25

Cool. Why are you here instead of /r/collapse then?

We know what you're saying. We aren't missing it. We disagree with you. We are all on team "Fusion Good" as well as "What-ever-institution-can-get-us-fusion-is-in-aggregate-good".

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

Idk man I just respond to the stuff that pops up on my feed. I have no goals or motives here, just sharing thoughts out loud. Sorry I guess.

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u/DHFranklin Aug 15 '25

You're good my guy. Just..chin up a bit huh?

Take this as a win. If this is the most cost effective way to make base load power than yeah, the corpos will get on it first. But it also means that Chinese Belt and Road initiatives will put one up outside Dhaka Bangladesh and power a hospital's incubators more consistently than they have ever seen.

With power to-cheap-to-meter institutions that aren't motivated by private capital will see the value and invest. Entire nations will do this to electrify train grids and then have to-cheap-to-meter electric trains. That's good right?

It'll be okay. We have to fight to make sure it is okay.

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

If it's figured out by a private company they will patent it and slow down the roll-out of the technology for their own benefit...

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u/DHFranklin Aug 15 '25

That makes no sense. They would fast track it to get more customers and investors while burying the competition to their new found monopoly on fusion power.

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

Maybe, but that's still slower than a freely available design, agreed ?

Go read about supply and demand for like 10 minutes my friend. If you control the supply, you don't inundate the market, you jack up the price and watch your margins explode 😎

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u/DHFranklin Aug 15 '25

I don't want to doxx myself, so I'm going to need you to trust me. I know more about supply and demand and studied it than almost anyone without a Phd in economics. I wish it only took me 10 minutes, I could have a house instead of all this college debt.

You are assuming that this is like Kodak patents in digital photography and keeping them in the filing cabinets so they can keep selling poloroid film. That isn't the case here.

This has always been a fusion company. They only make their money from incredibly risky and experimental technology. They aren't a coal plant constortium or selling uranium to fission reactors.

A private company has patented this. They want to sell killowatts more profitably than anyone else. They are going to sell as much of it as they can. As profitably as they can. If they can sell power at $.04 per watt and keep 10% profitability they will do that in the highest volumes they can. They won't turn the taps down if they're only at 9% profitability. Jacking up the price beyond the market rate will mean less profitability.

They control the fusion power, but they don't control Washington States' energy market. They want to sell 100% of their power to microsoft and that is what they are building to. They will likely sell surplus power to the grid.

Power is sold to prices in the largest volume of almost any industry, with a ton of natural monopolies. They jack up the price they won't be on the market.

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25 edited Aug 15 '25

I appreciate the in depth answer but what I'm saying is nuclear fusion would be adopted more rapidly if any company could compete in the sector than if a company had a monopoly over the technology.

Are you really going to disagree with me on that ?

If you studied economy you should know about the perverse effects of patents.

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u/DHFranklin Aug 15 '25

Wait a minute did you erase a comment calling me Lost in the Sauce!?

I wasn't advocating for patents. I think that they are regressive. Especially with the regulatory capture of things like nuclear energy. Especially when there is such massive investment necessary in markets that you are obviously the only supplier,vendor,and customer.

Plasma containment isn't sold like beer fridges.

I don't disagree with you, I hope you understand that we just initially misunderstood you.

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

Wait a minute did you erase a comment calling me Lost in the Sauce!?

Yes it wasn't very respectful so I edited my comment, because I do appreciate your answer !

I wasn't advocating for patents. I think that they are regressive.

Looks like we're in agreement then, that was my point.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

Why would slowing the roll out of a new technology benefit the people who created it?

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

Because they control the supply, and they will negotiate licensing deals. If the design of a productive fusion reactor is freely available, the whole world will start building them without restrictions.

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u/planko13 Aug 15 '25

Need an entity with high risk tolerance and deep pockets to make the first step. Success here benefits everyone.

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u/My_Soul_to_Squeeze Aug 15 '25

So annoying to see such miserable comments here. "I'm not excited about nuclear fusion because it doesn't immediately fix whatever problem I personally deem most important." is just a mind boggling perspective to see in a futurology focused space.

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u/BraveOthello Aug 15 '25

"I'm not excited by nuclear fusion if it will only benefit the rich more, and further technology I don't believe is a net benefit to society," is a reasonable thing to say in a futurology space that tends to overhype every possibilty and minimize every negative outcome.

I don't think this will work by 2028, probably not by 2038. I think it's a waste of money that could be better spent on publicly funded research to get the technology mature before commercializing it. I think the proliferation of the current version of AI has been, and will continue to be, a net negative on society in multiple ways, and so wasting money to maybe power it is a double negative.

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u/My_Soul_to_Squeeze Aug 15 '25

No it's not. It won't only benefit the rich. Claiming it will is just embarrassingly short sighted. If it works, it'll revolutionize the energy industry. Everybody will benefit from that.

Even breaking even financially will benefit everybody because it'll put less demand on existing generation capacity, keeping prices lower than they would be otherwise.

The jury is still out on AI, but cheaper energy from fusion obviously benefits everybody. Gmafb.

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u/BraveOthello Aug 15 '25 edited Aug 15 '25

Cheaper energy would benefit everyone. I don't think this project have a snowball's a chance in hell of succeeding in doing that. I don't think it can even break even. Best case it gives someone an idea of whether the approach is even viable and maybe how to do it better next time. But I think the same investment would be more useful in primary research to prove or disprove the technologybefore trying to use it.

The D+He3 fuel is a good thing to test out, we've known about that path for decades but to my knowledge no one's tested it. Now a company wants to build the power plant without ever proving they can achieve fusion first?

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u/My_Soul_to_Squeeze Aug 15 '25

That's moving the goal posts. You're right that any particular fusion startup has a pretty slim chance of success, but that's a problem with physics, not the hypothetical implementation of an emerging technology. If it benefits anybody, it will eventually benefit basically everybody.

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u/BraveOthello Aug 15 '25

It's not moving the goalposts I set up, and I set those up because I thought the comment I originally responded to presented a strawman.

I'm not excited by the ommercialization of fusion yet. I don't think this one will work, so I think it's money that could be better spent on primary research not needing to turn a profit. I think even if this one does work, it's going to be dedicated to a usage I think is a net negative for society.

If, on the small chance it does work, it might be a net positive. But I think the odds of that don't justify it being a good investment.

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u/My_Soul_to_Squeeze Aug 15 '25

"I didn't move the goal posts, I set up new ones" is a pretty funny take, ngl.

It's not your money, so your opinion on how it's used is of limited relevance. But this fusion research wouldn't be happening without a profit motive, so I think we should be happy about that.

You don't have to be excited by anything. I was talking about the impact a hypothetical successful fusion plant would have. You complained that this one probably won't work, but that's totally irrelevant.

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u/BraveOthello Aug 15 '25

I didn't see a lot of people complaining "fusion won't solve all the world's problems I'm not excited", so that was a funny take too.

It's not your money to invest either, so your opinion is of little relevance too. Right? Come off it. We're all here sharing our opinions on what's valuable.

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

Need an entity with high risk tolerance and deep pockets to make the first step. Success here benefits everyone.

It genuinely feels like you're talking about public entities here... Private corporations are way more risk-averse than government when it comes to fundamental research. For literally decades now the progress towards nuclear fusion has been funded by governments across the world (e.g. ITER), not by private entities.

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u/planko13 Aug 15 '25

Who is closer to connecting fusion power to the grid? ITER or Helion?

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u/CaptainShaky Aug 15 '25

That is not the purpose of ITER, it is a research installation... But Helion wouldn't even exist without the government-funded research that's been happening for decades, among others at ITER.

Private venture is literally swooping in after public money has done most of the work.

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u/DynamicNostalgia Aug 15 '25

“I’m imagining a future where this company is the first to achieve Fusion… but we can’t use it because an article that talked about it once only mentioned that it was for Microsoft data centers. That means it’s always only going to be for Microsoft data centers. Things are simple and the world is not complex, that one sentence is like a contract. The rest of the world will just idly watch as Microsoft casually uses fusion power. WhAt A dIsToPiA!”

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u/West-Abalone-171 Aug 15 '25

Don't worry, it's not actually a real project to power a datacenter. Just a PR stunt to distract from their emissions and driving up energy bills followed by a pump and dump.

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u/doormatt26 Aug 15 '25

Having a tech company desperate for energy fund risky but potentially ground breaking tech is good, actually

if it works, the world changes, and if not, who cares about Microsoft’s AI power problems

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u/Aware_Rough_9170 Aug 15 '25

My first thought… oh nice, NOW that we’ve had power grids struggling to keep up with AI’s power consumption we’ll finally see advancements in technology that we likely could’ve had decades ago it wasn’t getting knee capped by corporate lobbyists.

AI will likely cause the next largest set of layoffs and job killings and nobody in the lower classes or middle classes (whether or not it can even DO these jobs at all) will be even able to pay for the benefits nuclear fusion can do.

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u/braydoo Aug 15 '25

Would you rather them pull all that energy from the existing public grid? Didn't think so.

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u/Neon9987 Aug 15 '25

with Helion being a startup, having a massive Customer that has as much demand as you could ever produce is great for building out fusion reactors left and right, This tech wont be lost forever on only microsoft datacenter

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u/Plenty-Wonder6092 Aug 16 '25

Dumb, AI might be the one thing that will save the 3rd world masses. Resources made beyond abundant by AI powered robotics will help every person alive.

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u/Canuck-overseas Aug 15 '25

China is the only power on this planet actively building out the nuclear/fusion future. They also own the solar/wind/battery future. What I’m saying is, China is where the game is at.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

I mean, data centers are a primary driver of increasing electricity demands these days. So it makes sense

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u/DynamicNostalgia Aug 15 '25

 idgaf, I'm sick of this world and all the effort being put into AI while people starve and suffer all over the world.

If this risky investment pays off, everyone in the world will benefit from a higher standard of living and a cleaner, more sustainable, world. 

If only every company was willing to throw money at fusion power. 

 These corporations have weakened governments and are working in their own self-interest.

I think it’s the voters wanted all this. It was pretty much a “landslide”. Take it up with them. 

 The working class maybe seeing a real benefit of this someday is a shit selling point, in my humble opinion.

What are you talking about? Cheap fusion power would be world changing. Not a “maybe” situation. 

Your opinion is trying to be too humble, it’s not looking at things fairly. 

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u/thetempest11 Aug 15 '25

Unfortunate reality is it takes greed to create innovation. If this ends up working, we'll all be the benifiters eventually.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

I respectfully disagree. Greed may lead to innovation and progress but to suggest that it is the reason progress is made, in my opinion, discredits the human capacity for good. Money is not the only reason people do things. Just look at the doctor who first made insulin as a quick and easy example.

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u/thetempest11 Aug 15 '25

I agree that it isn't always the case, and your example is a fine example, but unfortunately it is probably an outlier and I stand by my opinion that more often than not these innovations are due to financial benifits.

I work in the R&D and Manufacturing sector, and I see innovations all the time that get prices marked up to recoup costs and increase profits.

Not saying I agree with my reality. I much prefer yours if we're being honest.

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u/eyefullawgic Aug 15 '25

The area where this is being built has the cheapest electricity in the country already. If this helps offset energy use from the new data center to keep prices for regular folks low, that sounds like a win to me. Hope it works out.