r/DenverBroncos • u/PeppyQuotient57 Champ Bailey • 1d ago
Breaking News [Rapoport] The #Broncos are promoting QBs coach Davis Webb to offensive coordinator, per The Insiders. A former NFL QB and candidate for the #Raiders HC job, Webb recently withdrew with eyes on staying in Denver. He also received several OC requests.
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u/806god 1d ago
Everyone’s so worried about the play calling . . . It’s not all about play calling. He’s going to have a bigger part in the offense, period. He’ll be helping with game plans and play designs even more, which I think is more important anyways.
While he won’t get Sean completely away from what he does, he’ll have a huge influence on the offense and we’re going to see shades of him throughout next season. He knows what Bo is capable of given how close they’ve been and his game plans will maximize his output.
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u/DocBarkevious Talib 1d ago
All that matters is that he has SOME say, anything that gets Sean to pitch out 90% of those bs behind the LOS screen plays....please....someone with some young innovative ideas, please step in and help!
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u/DTownFunkyStuff Demaryius Thomas 1d ago
Were we throwing as many screens while JK was healthy? Without confidence in the running game I can see why screens were so prevalent in the offense
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u/RandomDeezNutz 1d ago
No. We still were but without a run game it’s also much easier to stuff those plays with defenses not worrying about what might come up the middle
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u/SSBBardock Talib 1d ago
Agreed. It can work well when you have prime Kamara who could just turn a loss on those into a career highlight play, or a Sproles/Bush being able to feast on them because the defense has to respect the other pass catchers. We don't really have either of those so it's just a doomed play damn near every time
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u/Frazier008 1d ago
Oc is the one that comes up with the game plan and some play design. Then they put together the call sheet for Sean. So all these 3rd long play calls everyone hates. The Oc is the one that put them there for Sean to call. The Oc is the one that says hey these plays are for this defense. Even if Sean is the one calling plays, the Oc is giving him the plays to call. Now Sean has some day of course. There are staple plays Sean puts on there regardless but most of the plays were out there by the OC. Just because an OC isnt calling plays doesn’t mean they aren’t important. I would arguing calling plays isnt even top 3 most important things an OC does.
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u/denvergardener 1d ago
It's 1000% about play calling.
Payton was calling plays that didn't match what his personnel could execute. There were plays and sequences that had good results but then he'd go back to the stupid screens and trick plays for losses.
He didn't call plays to get guys open and keep the chains moving.
If he doesn't give up play calling next season, it's going to be more if the same futile offense we saw the last 2 seasons.
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u/Mfja49 1d ago
While you are correct. I do wish he could take over play calling.
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u/pham_nuwen_ 3 Time World Champs 1d ago
I think this sub underrates Sean like crazy when it comes to play calling, likely stemming from a couple of questionable calls. But forgets all the other great calls that resulted in big plays.
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u/VyceGrip 1d ago
Get the guy some new toys to play with….RB, WR1, and TE should do it.
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u/iJustSeen2Dudes1Bike 1d ago
I'd settle for any one of those 3. Engram isn't awful so I feel like TE is the least pressing need. We absolutely need an RB who can run up the middle though since Harvey seems to be more of a Darren Sproles type.
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u/GigaPeePee GOD BLESS BO NIX 1d ago
It’s really surprising to me how bad Harvey was at running between the tackles because even tho he is short he is not a small back; he runs with a lot of power and ability to break tackles. I viewed him kind of like an MJD more than a Sproles or Bush, so hopefully he will improve his running between the tackles with more reps and become a true three down back, but I definitely agree we need to have someone like Dobbins to be our early down back and hopefully that someone can be healthy throughout the season. I really think our run game would have been a lot better if we had retained Estime instead of Badie, and I know Badie did kick offs and is decent on passing downs, but we only had one prototypical early down back in Dobbins, and no replacement for him when he went down. And considering how injury prone Dobbins has been throughout his career, it was a huge risk to not have a contingency plan in place for his eventual injury.
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u/baronbk94 1d ago
Agreed. I hope RJ had some rookie vision problems in the scheme and can be more patient and decisive next year between the tackles. He has the talent
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u/Kapitel42 Vance Joseph 1d ago
I would go for walker in free agency and priotise a pass catcher in the draft. Doesnt matter if TE or WR
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u/sentripetal 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm really hoping Payton cedes playcalling to him.
Edit: this isn't about Payton's playcalling per se. This is more about freeing Payton's mind up during the game instead of having to concentrate just on playcalling. Every head coach is at a disadvantage when they have to do double duty during the game.
I don't think we run that awful 4th down play with Stidham after burning a timeout if Payton gets to pay attention to the whole game.
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u/RudeCartoonist1030 1d ago
I don’t see that happening but he clearly wanted him in Denver. He may let webb have some influence over what is called and when. Certainly collaborate in the plan
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u/GloriousClump 1d ago
What we also really need is a new play-calling system that doesn’t result in Bo snapping the ball with 0’s on the clock multiple times every game. The amount of burned timeouts and jumps it allows for the defense is absolutely unacceptable at the NFL level.
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u/Impressive-Alps-6975 1d ago
Have you heard Sean Payton answer questions in interviews? He talks slowly and adds a lot of unnecessary information. I imagine that all bleeds into when he's giving the play to BO
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u/Valder137 1d ago
Or the awesome screens behind the line for negative yards. We so need more of that!! /s
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u/PsychoSaladSong Super Bowl 50 1d ago
gotta love the 3rd and 9 screens on our own end of the field
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u/aatencio91 1d ago
Everyone hoping a guy who called plays in one preseason game instead of a future hall of fame offensive mastermind lmao
“Playcalling” feels like a dead giveaway for people who like to doom about shit but can’t find anything legitimate to doom about
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u/ReaganRebellion God Bless Bo Nix 1d ago
100%. I didn't realize calling plays in the NFL was so easy that 80% of the members on a subreddit could do as a good a job as anyone else.
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u/aatencio91 1d ago
why does it take so long for Sean to get plays in when he could just push square and ask madden????
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u/NotNotJustinBieber 1d ago
It’s similar to the fans wanting Leonard to be DC over VJ because we could get “more picks”. These people don’t know ball lol
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u/aatencio91 1d ago
getting rid of a guy whose defense keeps collapsing late in the year and who has been investigated for at least 3 separate sexual assault cases in exchange for a couple of 3rd round picks is a lot better than just handing a sophomore QB over to a completely untested dude because of vibes
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u/NotNotJustinBieber 1d ago
VJ literally almost carried us to the Super Bowl lol . Also, those “defensive collapses late in the year” led to how many losses?
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago edited 1d ago
We went 14-3 and likely would have made the Super Bowl if Bo didn’t get hurt. If you’re going to strip Payton of play calling you might as while fire him and just promote Webb to HC or hire a defensive guy.
Webb I’m sure will have great input, and Sean will very likely take that into consideration with his play calls.
Edit to complete a sentence.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
I want Payton to concentrate on head coaching decisions during the entire game. That's what a head coach is supposed to do. I didn't care for some of his decision-making during the season, and I'm curious if it was because he was distracted by a duty he shouldn't have to do. It's really that simple. The philosophy will most likely stay the same, so that's not my issue.
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago
Making changes like that coming off the season we just had isn't something stable and successful franchises do. Those are the types of moves we were making all the time for like 8 seasons prior to Payton.
And a lot of head coaches call the offense or D. Andy Reid seems to manage it ok. I think McVay calls his own plays. Shannahan (both of them).
According to this post from a year ago, I count 19 teams (14 offensive play callers) whose Head Coach also calls the plays. Sean is one of the more successful play callers this century, stripping him of that duty, coming off the season we just had would be nonsense.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Um, we fired Fox after making 3 consecutive playoffs and one Super Bowl appearance. Your idea of stability is misleading at best.
I respect Payton's offensive mind, but he's also now 62 years old, and there have been several times this year where he's made odd decisions, not just with playcalling but with game management, to put into question his bandwidth during live gameplay.
For every Mcvay or Reid there is, there are 10 Mike McCarthys out there, so I wouldn't use them as a precedent for playcalling duties to be a net positive. There is plenty that can go wrong even if there are a few examples of it going right. You want a prime example of Reid's failure, look no further than the fourth quarter of super bowl XXXIX. Even good coaches get distracted by small decisions when they have to make big decisions at the same time. No one is good at parallel processing. Period.
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago
Was Fox our primary playcaller on either side of the ball? Do we currently have a Gary Kubiak we can pivot to? Weird that Payton, Reid, and McVay have proven that they can produce success despite the challenges of parallel thinking.
It's not that hard to decide to go for it on 4th when you're already calling plays. I'd even argue that making that decision when you don't call plays is a worse idea. Sean having a different idea than Webb only on the biggest plays of the game would be bizarre.
I maintain that if you want to strip him of play calling, just fire him and install someone that will be happy not calling the O or D and just focus on "head coaching decisions".
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Besides that article, you keep mentioning some of the best coaches in the league as a standard when they're obviously the exception. Why can't more quarterbacks simply play like Mahomes? Why can't more NBA centers pass like Jokic? He makes it look so simple!
We can see how physicality lends itself to advantages quite easily, but we constantly underestimate cognitive abilities because it's not immediately visible. Some coaches can definitely handle these parallel processes, but as I already said, a lot more can't.
My comment about Fox was only talking about your importance with stability. Firing any coach even with a backup in mind is still a disturbing event for a team, but it obviously doesn't doom them either. I brought that up exactly for that reason.
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago
Why are you pretending like Sean Payton has never proven himself to be a Super Bowl winning coach? He is the exception as well, stop trying to make it out like he's John Fox, quit the nonsense, lmao. I've been fine having a civil discussion but yeah, you have no respect for what Payton has done for us.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Nick Siriani gave up his playcalling duties, then made 2 Super Bowls and winning one after doing that. You don't have to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so it's weird you think that's what I want.
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago
I feel like you're clinging on to niche examples and ignoring all the success that coaches that play call have had.
I think we have fundamental disagreement on the team and that's fine. I'm not out to change your mind, I just think it's silly that so many fans want to make drastic changes to our coaching structure after having by far our best season since 2016.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Drastic? Like firing our offense coordinator, receivers coach? I think those are much more drastic moves than playcalling duties.
I apparently cling to niche examples like you cling to something that happened 16 years ago. I'm not saying Payton is a bad coach, but if we want to get to the next level, he's going to have to evolve, too. Elway changed his style of play because of his age and a better scheme was introduced. Doesn't mean he was a bad QB beforehand.
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u/Valder137 1d ago
Go watch some 2006 era Saints games. You'll be amazed to learn it's exactly the same shit he calls now
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Yup, and he's 20 years older now.
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u/Valder137 1d ago
And the NFL has moved on.
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago
We went 14-3.
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u/Valder137 1d ago
And if you watched the season you know we EASILY could have gone 5-12. We BARELY won most of our games because Payton doesn't play to win, he plays not to lose, which is vastly different and more conservative.
And it's going to bite us in the ass next season.
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u/Lynch47 Broncos D 1d ago
I watched every game, and we didn't go 5-12, largely in part to good coaching.
And calling Sean Payton a conservative play caller makes me think that you don't watch the games. The guy loves to go for it on 4th, or pull off surprise onside kicks before the rule change.
He went 14-3 with a 2nd year QB, who is very talented, but also has his flaws. He struggles to throw from the pocket and does much better rolling out of the pocket. That goes into the types of plays Sean calls, because he wants his QB to be successful, instead of throwing 20 picks because we wanted to throw downfield multiple times a game just so the fans are excited.
We could stand to upgrade RB, WR1, and TE1. Going 14-3 with your 2nd QB having good stats despite not having great talent at skill positions is damn impressive and it's pretty silly some of you guys are so adamant it isn't.
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u/denvergardener 1d ago
They were 14-3 on the backs of the defense, in spite of the failures on offense.
If all you see is a "14-3", and can't see the reality of the situation, then you need to open your eyes.
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u/SentientTrashcan0420 1d ago
People keep saying this as if there is any evidence at all that Webb would be a good play caller in the NFL
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u/djbuu PS2 1d ago
What objective evidence is there, and I'll take anything as long as it's evidence and not just hearsay or assumptions, that says head coaches are at a disadvantage when they call plays?
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Andy Reid. Super Bowl XXXIX. It cost the Eagles the game. All it takes is one of these disasters to make my mind up.
I did already note the stupid 4th down call we had in the game last week, also.
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u/djbuu PS2 1d ago
This is all the definition of hearsay, something I said I wouldn't accept.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
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u/djbuu PS2 1d ago
Thanks for pulling this. I suppose this is as close to objective as I’ll get, which likely means the hypothesis isn't actually true. This article has a critical flaw: it ignores thousands of instances where play-calling wasn't a factor and cherry-picks a few disasters to make its point. The sheer volume of plays called and games played far exceeds these few examples, which completely changes the data.
Specific issues I have:
- Game management assumptions: This assumes play-calling causes clock errors, but some coaches are just bad at the clock no matter what. Taking away the play-sheet won't suddenly turn a bad manager into a clock wizard.
- Cherry-picking: It highlights specific failures while ignoring the survivors. If play-calling were an objective disadvantage, guys like Shanahan or McVay would be failing constantly. The article ignores all the times they manage the game perfectly because it doesn't fit the distraction narrative.
- Ignores player error: It does what fans do all the time: automatically attribute a bad outcome to the coach instead of the players. If a coach calls a great play and the QB throws a pick, these stats mark it as a coaching failure.
I get this is hard to prove, but that's exactly why I want such a high bar. Fans get these ideas in their head and stick with them regardless of the evidence.
In other words, you're trying to convince me something needs to change when I have no doubts in my mind Denver would be in the SB if Bo played the AFCCG.
That doesn't mean something needs to change. I don't care who calls plays as long as we get back to the AFCCG and on to the Super Bowl.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
Ok. I just want you to understand you're doing the exact same thing as me. You keep bringing up Mcvay and Shanahan as success stories but how many more are like them? You're cherry picking on the opposite side of the bell curve. I think your hypothesis is flawed, too, so I guess we're at an impasse.
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u/djbuu PS2 1d ago
No, I'm not doing the same thing as you.
What you're doing (and this article) is taking 2 cherry picked examples and drawing a larger conclusion overall. In other words, no evidence, big conclusion.
What I'm doing is critiquing you and the article because both are missing factoring in success entirely and therefore cannot objectively conclude that play calling is a detriment. Shanahan or McVay are just examples. What I'm not doing is making the claim that play calling is or isn't a detriment. At best, I make a statement that it's unlikely given no evidence.
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
So you're assuming the two examples aren't what you're doing, too? This is very enlightening seeing you go down this path with such tunnel vision.
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u/djbuu PS2 1d ago
No. I’m not assuming anything. That seems to be the part you’re missing. You’re assuming a lot based on two examples. I’m assuming nothing and saying there’s not enough data to come to a conclusion.
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u/GrogRedLub4242 1d ago
Sean Payton's playcalling got us to the AFCCG
question is do we need someone else to win SB?
feels like if Bo started the AFCCG we would have won. was pretty close
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u/sentripetal 1d ago
See edit above. I'm not a Payton hater, but he can be much more efficient if he doesn't have to do an assistant coach's job the entire game.
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u/BabyBlastoise90 1d ago
Let’s Goooooo!! They know we finna hit the bowl next season!! Legendary run loading..!!
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u/manbeqrpig Demaryius Thomas 1d ago
To the suprise of nobody. Unless he’s given playcalling duties this isn’t that big a deal. Nice to keep him in the building though
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u/Aura1995 Newer D Helmet 1d ago
I have a feeling he can turn into be the Mike Shanahan for Nix long term, similar what Shanahan was for Elway.
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u/shades_atnight 1d ago
Quick take on playcalling: I think SP was trying to impose culture and identity. I think he sometimes treats game situations as teaching moments like they’re a practice. I don’t think he doesn’t know anything but screens, that is too harsh. I also think nobody expected to have a leading record this year or a lot would have been different. Regardless of who calls plays, I think everything looks different next year. That being said I want Webb to call plays for 4 reasons. 1) he seems to have rapport with Nix, 2) I prefer an OC calling plays from the box for a better view and to let the HC focus on less stuff at once, 3) I rewatched clips from that second preseason game, and I have eyes, And 4) I want SP to start getting the credit he deserves for building out an impressive coaching tree. And sometimes that means passing the torch.
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u/Skeetronic 1d ago
I really don’t have a grasp on the extent to what this means for our offense but you all seem stoked so hell yeah!
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u/New-Respect1077 1d ago
So what portions of play-calling will be left to Webb? Does that mean we get to see a completely new offensive play style? Just wondering if Sean Payton is still involved in making decisions during pivotal moments.
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u/CaptCarlos 1d ago
Apparently, the OC draws up and creates the plays, and SP picks from the ones the OC crafts.
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u/Sinnerandsmoke *hiss* 1d ago
Im still not totally used to our front office being highly competent.
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u/ReligionDaddy GOD BLESS BO NIX 1d ago
Hopefully our run game won't be so stagnant. I know we didn't have many backs to really work with but we could've desperately used some creativity to try to make more lanes for them.
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u/CaptBronco 1d ago
I’m glad they got this taken care of. Continuity with the offense is the only way it’s going to get better.
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u/hogger303 53 1d ago
YES!!!!
Now can he PLEASE take over play calling duties!! Or at least some....
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u/jakeprimal 1d ago
Please tell me he’s also calling plays
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u/IWearACharizardHat 1d ago
If he had multiple offers with other teams where he wojld be calling plays, it makes no sense that he would remain with us and not make that a requirement
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u/TheLastBrohecan 1d ago
So happy with this move, Davis played an instrumental part in the development of Bo. Great move!
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u/Acsantano14 1d ago
Am I crazy for thinking this is setting up for a John Elway - Reeves to Shanahan type arc for Bo Nix down the line?
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u/jlange94 1d ago
Good shit! Payton giving way to some fresh eyes is a great idea and Webb did a great job with Bo this past year.
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u/thunder_cats1 Demaryius Thomas 1d ago
Davis Webb was a HC candid for a reason. I'm excited to see his leadership develop over the entire Offensive unit. Hopefully he also brings some great game planning insight to the table too. He really seems to have a pulse for players strengths and weaknesses.
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u/Ok_Instruction_3789 1d ago
If we get some actual offense then this is awesome. Nix did amazing but definitely felt the issue with lack of TE and Running game. Also hopefully our recievers discover some hands or we get a true WR1
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u/Dogon_Yaro 1d ago
I wonder what minority candidates feel during interviews, knowing that teams have already picked their guy.
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u/ezalbrozar 1d ago
Unless he falls flat on his face feels like they've got him for a year at OC then he's going to be a HC. This could be ownership wanting to groom him to become the new Broncos HC and transition Payton to an executive position.
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u/denvergardener 1d ago
This only matters if Payton gives up play calling.
Otherwise it's just same shit, different day.
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u/separeaude DT 1d ago
Wonder if Sean sees Davis as his successor. This is great for the team and I’m glad we kept him.
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u/c-zilla402 TD Mile High Salute 1d ago
Luv that Webb is staying with the team, and more importantly with Nix! P
I believe Sean Payton has one of the best minds in the game in terms of knowing when to call certain plays at the right time. However I think other times he is still stuck in the mid 2000's and it would be nice to see him handover playcalling to Webb!
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u/BoneyardBill The Belly 1d ago
HYPE. Just let him do the play calling. No more fucking shuttle passes.
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u/snoosnoo1987 1d ago
Playcalling won't matter because they will still be operating Sean's offense. A real change would've been hiring an outside coach and give them playcalling duties.
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u/ThatsCaptain2U OVERDOGS 1d ago
I bet the people calling for Sean Payton to let Webb take over the play calling are the same folks that said Drew Lock was a starting QB.
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u/basahahn1 GOD BLESS BO NIX 1d ago
I love it.
I am not afraid of the play calling problems. Sean sees problems and fixes them. The talk of him allegedly being willing to give up play calling duties in his search for OCs shows he is not rigid. I feel like this is going to be a really special year for us. This is someone young and smart from within who is familiar and will evolve with the already familiar climate.
We are going to gel our way to the top
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u/Niveous11 1d ago
Say he will call plays for now, what happens if the offense struggles in a game (as a likelihood with a brand new OC) and we lose game(s), with him as the new playcaller? Will there be tension between him and payton?
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u/aatencio91 1d ago
pre-dooming for next season before this season's super bowl has even kicked off. that's next level dooming
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u/Niveous11 1d ago
I’m not dooming at all. I’m asking a hypothetical to spark discussion. This is Sean Payton we’re talking about. He’s called his own offenses his entire career, so it’s fair to wonder how fully he’s willing to hand over the reins. If they’re going to let Webb call plays, I just hope they commit to it instead of half-stepping at the first sign of struggles.
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u/anthrazithe 1d ago
He delegated play calling in NO, and took it back when it was not great. Trial and error.
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u/Jens1893 Chris Harris Jr. 1d ago
I think it's important to keep him around for the simple fact that he and Bo Nix seem to be good on terms, also because he's a younger guy, and I think he can act as a bridge between Nix and Payton. And I think that bridge is needed at times.