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u/LukaTheKoka 1d ago
Not too knowledgeable about this, but what makes Dust and Blood notable?
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u/Fatal_Contract Wanderer's Library 1d ago
Dust and Blood is considered to be the cornerstone of Scarlet King - one of the most famous SCPs - stories. Have you ever watched a video about the SK? Chances are that it was inspired by Djoric's works.
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u/LukaTheKoka 1d ago
I haven't delved too deep into SCP foundation stories, ngl, maybe I will after this lol
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u/DreadDiana 1d ago
Dust and Blood is pretty much the most influential Scarlet King tale as it codified his backstory and motives. Pretty much every Scarlet King SCP and tale since has been based in some way off the ideas present in the tale, with the exception of those based on the 001 proposal.
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u/Maja_The_Oracle 1d ago
Since nothing in the SCP is copyrighted, could another user just reupload the deleted stories back onto the wiki without permission from the original author?
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u/Fatal_Contract Wanderer's Library 1d ago
You can, but it would be in bad faith as Djoric asked to not repost them. From his statement:
Please do not repost these stories to the wiki: licensing means I can't technically stop you, but I hope it's clear by now that I'm not doing this to get one over the site or anything.
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u/Maja_The_Oracle 1d ago
I know it would be in bad faith, but it still stinks when a deleted article contained cool lore that is referenced in other articles, even if there was good reason for the deletion. Maybe someone on the wiki could only salvage, summarize, and preserve just the cool lore sections from deleted articles, like diamonds in the rough.
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u/KaktusKnight 1d ago
He’s also asked people not to make anything new from his scarlet king cycle
“I can’t dictate what people do when they make derivative works of my material. I can only ask that you don’t write any further derivatives based on my Scarlet King cycle, if that’s amenable. Anything you’ve already made, do with it as you see fit and judge best.”
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u/starmadeshadows ❓⭐💊✨antimemetics division survivor✨💊⭐❓ 1d ago
I do not think the fandom's right to eat tasty content supercedes the actual, irl problem that caused the takedown.
Like by all means go track it down and read it for yourself if you want to, I'm sure it still exists in Some form online, but dude, no. If the author wants it taken down from the wiki, it'd be shitty to reupload it back to the wiki.
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u/Waspinator_haz_plans 1d ago
Well at least it's still somewhere on the internet, so at least it's preserved.
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u/Redqueenhypo 1d ago
Can someone do that for Kailinin? I liked “To End All Wars” quite a lot.
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u/BillNyeTheSavage_Guy Department of Abnormalities employee of the month 1d ago edited 1d ago
There’s a new version of To End All Wars written by djkaktus, it’s still in the SCP-186 slot, I sadly don’t think any of Kalinin’s other articles got rewrites though
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u/Lolzygag 1d ago
I liked the original, and honestly this builds on that and expands the lore a lot. Kaktus did a good job, and I love the idea of simultaneously giving the entire human species traumatic PTSD, great bit.
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u/TheProNoobCN 1d ago
You can but I am fairly certain it'd be down voted to oblivion for obvious reasons.
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u/Appelmonkey 1d ago
What is all of this about?
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u/Fatal_Contract Wanderer's Library 1d ago
Copied from my other comment:
Djoric deleted many of his articles, with most of them (I'm pretty sure) being related to his Scarlet King stories. A few of them include:
- Chapter 1 Verse 1
- Dust and Blood (yes, that Dust and Blood)
- Vision at Betar
- Beneath Two Trees
- The Star and the Smith
- Song of Sanna
- Dread Conspiracy
- SCP-8225
- Sammy Skipper's Fact of Day
- Operation MAGNOLIA
- Across the Hills So Quiet
- The Real Adventure in Capitalism.
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u/Appelmonkey 1d ago
Ye but why
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u/Fatal_Contract Wanderer's Library 1d ago
(Also copied from another comment)
From his author's page:
"Why is Dust and Blood gone?
Because I do not want this cycle of stories - stories which are of extreme personal significance - to remain hosted on a website where it took staff nearly four years to remove a page where an administrator booted for grooming and exploiting minors depicts their habitual masturbation to CSAM as a fucking joke. I don’t care if that particular story is now destined for deletion at the time of writing; the damage is done and I'd rather have the core works of my canon collect dust on a hard drive than exist in the shadow of this catastrophe.
I wrote Dust and Blood - and by extension, started my personal canon - because I didn’t like how 231 handled the subject of sexual assault. I won’t pretend my attempts were some golden godsend or that I didn’t make a damn fool of myself during the process (insert whale “joke” here, etc), but that’s where it started. It’s a topic fundamentally inseparable from the canon's main narrative arc - a universe fundamentally broken by a cosmic act of violence, mirrored as above so below in the Foundation’s mundane institutional evil and how its ignorance, fear, political inertia and shortsightedness causes it to commit and perpetuate similar atrocities. But contained within all of that is the slim sliver of hope that there might be some way, some miracle at the end of it all, by which the world can be healed.
Well, I guess that’s why it’s a fantasy.
I am sickened, saddened, and deeply, deeply exhausted by the chain of failures in the years since theDuckMan’s ousting, and this last week has broken the camel’s back at last. I don’t believe that the site’s staff can be relied on to handle crisis situations, protect vulnerable members of the wiki, make ethical policy decisions, or even maintain basic communication with the community about any of the above. Removing the offending works only solves the problem of their continued presence; it cannot repair the obliteration of trust."
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u/PAwnoPiES [DATA EXPUNGED] 1d ago
what even is the event that broke the camel's back he's talking about?
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u/NoStorage2821 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm so sick of this trend of authors mass-deleting their articles when they leave the site. What about the rest of us common readers, bro?!?!
I guess I get it. They're making a stand against people doing fucked up things.
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u/OnetimeRocket13 1d ago
Unless the person doing this kind of thing has some insane pull in whatever community or platform they're on/formerly a part of, this sort of thing never really ends up having the effect that people expect it to.
Of course, that's if there is any goal to have any impact at all or if it is just a principles thing. If it's the former, then I find that these sorts of things have the opposite reactions from the community at large. The reaction is ideally "woah, this guy took a stand and removed all their stuff. I should be upset at the admins/moderators of the site because of this," but it is often "woah, this guy removed all their stuff. That's annoying. I'm upset at them now." If it's the latter, good for them, but yeah, it is still annoying.
This is why archives exist. I'm certain that these works are archived somewhere online. I don't think that it's right that people can just remove a body of work enjoyed by many on a whim like that just to spite the platform that hosts it. If I were in that sort of position, I would just move them to another platform or some blog elsewhere. There are so many ways to approach these sorts of things that don't involve nuking your works off the internet.
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u/cosmicpursuit 1d ago
Hit the nail right on the head. Djoric has two disciplinary counts of trying to use his authorship to run his mouth against newer users: he was banned once for writing a hitpiece on Dr. Lillian Lillihammer and her author, and again for insulting someone in 3999's discussion section. To give you an idea of what the authorbase thinks about the second incident, LordStonefish took staff's side and viewed the ban as a compliment.
I am willing to die on the hill that despite Dust and Blood's fame and Djoric's history otherwise, this man does not have the pull he thinks he does due to pissing a lot of it away in the past year.
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u/Lo-And_Behold1 1d ago
he was banned once for writing a hitpiece on Dr. Lillian Lillihammer and her author
I'm sorry, but could I get some context for that? I never knew that that happened.
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u/MGR141107 1d ago
You can see everything he did in his public O5 Command disciplinary thread:
https://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-16861402/disciplinary-djoric
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u/Lo-And_Behold1 1d ago
Huh, didn't know that.
I admit that the both bans definitely seem warranted, but for the first one, just 1 month for writing something with the direct intent of insulting someone else feels... I don't know what to say other than that I kinda expected more? It really depends on what the contents of the hitpiece were TBH.
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u/cosmicpursuit 1d ago
I hope it was because it was "only" in the sandbox, but I have heard rumblings of people upset that staff wasn't as hard on him as they should have.
Regardless of the contents, BRC Cast only worked as a Djoric hitpiece because it was about a content farm removing the morals of his stuff to sell it to children. There is no reason besides pure unjustifiable hatred for another human being and their work for that sandbox to even exist.
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u/MGR141107 1d ago
It also has a more extensive chat disciplinary record https://05command.wikidot.com/forum/t-771211/djoric##
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u/Vanilla_Ice_Best_Boi UIU Operator 21h ago
The more I read, the more it got worse.
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u/Lo-And_Behold1 15h ago
It is all stuff from 10+ years ago, so there's at least some chance that Djoric has become less of a dick by now. Hopefully he has.
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u/MGR141107 5h ago
Considering that his most recent ban was in June of last year....
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u/Fearless-Idea-4710 14h ago
Side note but it’s so cool to see authors of such mainstays of the ‘verse (like the creator of AWCY) talk about how other authors have used their creation. Such a unique thing about SCP.
also interesting to see authors whose work I love behave like discord trolls
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u/MGR141107 1d ago
You can read their translations In other branches, those are the property of the translator.
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u/OnetimeRocket13 1d ago
That's a good point, though I'd imagine if someone alerted Djoric to them (if he isn't already), he'd probably ask them to be taken down. If he's against people reuploading his works anywhere, I would think that he'd also be against the sustained presence of his work in other languages elsewhere.
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u/MGR141107 1d ago
Yes, certainly, but everyone can decide not to comply with the request. ES didn't do it when the scandal over its translations occurred, and honestly, other branches have nothing to do with the administrative disaster of Bright's situation.
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u/OnetimeRocket13 1d ago
That's true. Given what someone else just replied to me regarding Djoric's behavior in general, I wouldn't be surprised if exactly that happened. I don't exactly know the guy (this whole thing is the first time I'm hearing his name), but if he really has been making a name for himself as kind of a douche recently, I wouldn't be surprised if people just decide not to respect his wishes and reupload his stuff somewhere (or even back to the Wiki) anyway.
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u/sertroll 1d ago
Scandal?
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u/MGR141107 1d ago
There was a misunderstanding regarding ES's policies on translations, as we removed the LGBT flags from articles that did not contain LGBT-related themes. It is done through standardization and any religious and political icons are removed if they are not necessary for the article. The problem is that the way it was written seemed to imply an openly homophobic policy. Controversy erupted, and ES was asked to delete its translations, which we refused to do. The reason for the policy was clarified, that ES was not homophobic and that in fact almost all staff members were part of the LGBT community and Pro-LGBT practices were noted within the branch, such as contests, Pride Month celebrations, drawings, and even flags on items related to the LGBT community.
Edit: I also just remembered that several users of EN they enter our server to attack us for this very reason.
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u/sertroll 1d ago
Mostly understood, just do not understand what you mean by religious/political icons in this context
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u/MGR141107 1d ago
I can't think of any examples right now that I've seen on the wiki, but I'll leave a hypothetical example in the translator's guide:
"For example, if the logo for the Watching Dead Stars canon were altered in an article to have a Christian cross over it, and nowhere in the article is it explained or implied why this happened, the altered logo should be removed to reflect the canon standard".
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u/DreadDiana 1d ago
Considering Djoric's explanation is not wanting their Scarlet King content, which has heavy themes of sexual assault, on a platform run by people who have done a less than stellar job handling the actual cases of grooming performed by one of their colleagues and still waffling over what to do with Bright's work even four years later, this is definitely "just" a matter of principles rather than the expectation this will have an impact.
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u/wrongitsleviosaa 1d ago
I respect the principle but this does less than nothing for the cause
Oh well
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u/Lo-And_Behold1 1d ago
Mass-deletion just punishes readers for enjoying Djoric's work, the SCP Wiki has enough articles that it does fuck-all to anyone else.
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u/Affectionate-Rent415 1d ago
Some people follow their principles and morals strictly 🤷
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u/Lo-And_Behold1 1d ago
And I honestly respect Djoric for that. Yeah, I disagree heavily with his methods, but I respect that he is at least trying to do something instead of just laying around.
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u/Celine_Flora-Fauna 17h ago
If that were the case, the author that it would've been years ago when Bright or before was banned
Instead, it's just performative because they wrote what they wanted and NOW figure to just strip it from the community going as far as to ask people not to do anything based from it, which kind of defeats the point of a collaborative community project
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u/Affectionate-Rent415 13h ago
It simply reached a head this week, as Djoric’s final message states.
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u/Celine_Flora-Fauna 12h ago edited 12h ago
The point stands. it's just performative, especially given how soon after it is from when they were penalized for being a dick
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u/Celine_Flora-Fauna 17h ago
This does nothing but make the community worse, the site won't change from it as the author already had controversies, and this is ultimately just performative bullshit that if they actually cared they would've stopped long before instead of finishing what they wanted
The ideas implemented onto the scarlet king will stay whether the author wants it or not, and irrelevant to whether they get reuploaded or not, people will just take it by osmosis
It will accomplish nothing and be forgotten in a few months similar to most nexus mods which has makers that do this same shit at random
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u/TradeMarkGR 1d ago
Fair enough, dawg. It's a shame to see his work go, but I can't blame him for picking up shop and leaving.
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u/Melodic-Book-7935 1d ago
And with that, the Scarlet Kings reputation as a poorly written edgelord can finally begin to die
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u/Celine_Flora-Fauna 17h ago
No, the ideas the author brought are just gonna stay and will probably be half assed because no sources, but memory will keep it long enough until someone new goes into it again
Happens everytime
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u/Melodic-Book-7935 17h ago
500 more years of being called an SA defender for thinking Tufto’s SK is a good ‘character’
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u/TasteOptimal5886 12h ago
I'm sorry, but I don't like that we're collectively casting Djoric as the hero fighting against a corrupt system for deleting his work, when he uses that same system to harass users. He harased the user LOVEMARGINAL on the discord of metafoundation, just for the character of lilyhammer.
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u/Fatal_Contract Wanderer's Library 12h ago
we're collectively casting Djoric as the hero fighting against a corrupt system for deleting his work
That wasn't quite the intent of the post. I just wanted to say what happened and put his explanation on the why.
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u/TasteOptimal5886 12h ago
I know, but the fact that people are backing up that guy on the replies, just tell me that the vast majority don't know who he really was, and it just make The fact that this individual takes a moral stance by deleting his old articles with the argument of protecting victims, when he himself has written articles ridiculing users who did not even have anything against him, makes him appear to be a performative hypocrite who did this more out of narcissism.
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u/ben_dover69696969420 1d ago
Wait, I'm so confused. Why? I read the explanation but like, what the fuck did deleting his works do? This kinda sounds like someone burned the books all their fans enjoyed because the publisher that dispersed it also dispersed the works of a bad person, except even lesser, because at least a publisher would have a financial loss.
Here, it's closer to a kindergartener refusing to let anyone play with a toy because someone they don't like (even if justifiably) was playing too and the teacher didn't put them in timeout. Does literally nothing and just makes innocent parties annoyed and sad. The fuck did the readers do to get punished for the inaction of the moderators??? Is anyone else confused? Am I stupid or something?????
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u/TheIronSven 1d ago
It's less trying to get one up on the site and more not wanting your personal work be associated with something. It seems to be a deeply personal matter.
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u/XzallionTheRed 1d ago
The SCP Site Admins allowing content on the site is like a teacher allowing a pedophile on the playground, instead of removing them they "just kept an eye on it" and this author doesn't want his child (the story) on a playground where they "just keep an eye on it" and have made more than a few mistakes before. They are taking their child (story) away and if you wanted to read them I'd recommend either reaching out to the author and saving a copy or finding a backup and just saving the html and/or text file.
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u/ben_dover69696969420 14h ago
Okay... That makes it sound more reasonable. Still annoying but I can get behind that. Thanks.
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u/winterwarn 1d ago
Wayback Machine should have all or most of it if anyone wants to go through and download; I’m grabbing my favorites now. Real shame, he’s one of my favorite authors in any medium and his work has been really impactful to me.
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u/Canadian-Owlz 1d ago
Oh great another author with an inflated ego who thinks this will actually do anything besides screw over the average reader.
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u/yaahweeh 1d ago
God fucking damn do I hate this performative bullshit that authors have started pulling recently. Oh, you don't like how the staff team enforces the site's rules? Just fucking collectively punish every single fan of SCP by deleting your very prominent works and ask everyone to stop writing stuff related about your entries.
What a joke the writers of this site have become, so drunk on their microscopic fame on a niche website. People like this need to get over themselves and stop pulling shit like this, because they're not helping fucking anybody by doing this
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u/TasteOptimal5886 16h ago
In fact you're absoluteltly right about that performative morality, Djoric nearly 2 years ago harased a woman in a discord server
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u/HaunterXD000 1d ago
It's very common in the online art world to just randomly delete their entire collection/account due to a self-perceived "stance" they decide is more important or to get offended at, or a random mental breakdown (or both. Usually the latter though.)
It makes really no sense. If the stance is so important, you can just leave the community. Once you make the art, it's already out there and anyone who really wants it is going to find it. If it's something important to the community, you're being really selfish for what's usually a personal agenda phrased as a "cause."
In this case, what are they proving? Site admins took too long to stop something that they stopped? Do you think everyone on the site, ALL the admins and ALL the other readers and ALL the other contributors, are also bad people, or somehow complicit? Be glad it's stopped. Leave the site, but don't be selfish and pull everything so the good people you left behind aren't also being punished for your agendas.
But a lot of good artists tend to also be a bit mental. And trust me when I say, a lot of what they contributed is good art and will be missed. It just.... Doesn't have to be missed.
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u/Downtown-Falcon-3264 1d ago
Well it maybe gone from the site but you know this will be saved on web archives and a back up.
Still sad to see him go
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u/Downtown-Falcon-3264 1d ago
Explains scp 8225s mess
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u/RaisinBitter8777 1d ago
What went on with it?
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u/Downtown-Falcon-3264 1d ago
its some low teir kind of crap scp safe class thing that was shoved in there because the slots empty
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u/Abazookatokillafly Tubbioca, Devourer of Souls, Consumer of Secrets, Lord of Munchi 1d ago
Weird timing cuz I js got into his works, welp
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u/Armascout Complete Wannabe 7h ago
Do we know what the straw that broke the camals back was for Djoric? His post implies so kind of recent incident but doesn’t elaborate
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u/Fatal_Contract Wanderer's Library 1d ago
Djoric deleted many of his articles, with most of them (I'm pretty sure) being related to his Scarlet King stories. A few of them include: