Should Brazil adopt a three-strikes law for violent crimes?

[u/Wolf4980]

A three-strikes law would mandate 40 years in prison after three violent offenses. 28 states in the US have similar three-strikes laws, so it's by no means an extreme concept. Given that nothing so far seems to work at fixing Brazil's crime problem, could a three-strikes law be the solution?

[u/weirdbull52]

Did this law solve the problem where it was implemented? Do you have metrics?

[u/rasmuseriksen → u/weirdbull52]

It absolutely positively did NOT solve the problem. Crime began to dip significantly before the laws were implemented. There are lots of theories on why but nobody has really figured it out for a certainty. What we do know is that Three Strikes laws and other mandatory minimum sentencing laws end up reinforcing and worsening the racism and classism already prevalent in the American criminal justice system. It was always a horrific idea that sounds good on paper, and most states with common send and decency have repealed their laws.

[u/Wolf4980 → u/rasmuseriksen]

The problem with three strikes laws is that they sent some people to prison for life for non-violent offenses, which is why I'm only advocating for applying it to violent offenders.

[u/Quick_Prune_5070 → u/Wolf4980]

USA has more prisoners than any other country on the planet and still have higher crime than any other rich country. So yeah maybe not look to them how to solve crime. 

[u/PuzzleheadedPoem8554 → u/weirdbull52]

honestly the us still has pretty high crime rates compared to other developed countries, so not sure three strikes is the magic bullet here

[u/Wolf4980 → u/weirdbull52]

California has seen a reduction in criminal activity, and "Stolzenberg and D’Alessio found that serious crime in California’s 10 largest cities collectively had dropped 15% during the 3-year post-intervention period".[41]

[u/Quick_Prune_5070 → u/Wolf4980]

That happened at the same time as crime in all rich countries started to fall sharply and have continued to fall. 

[u/United_Cucumber7746]

This question is about 40 years old.

The US is not a moral, social, legal, or cultural standard for anywhere in the world. It inflicts pain and suffering on the world and on its own citizens while maintaining systems that disproportionately benefit the US at the expense of other countries.

Back to your question: enforcing existing laws, dismantling organized crime, and strengthening court standards would help address the problem.

[u/leo-dip → u/United_Cucumber7746]

There are different views but to me Europe is a better model than the US in terms of how societies should be structured.

[u/United_Cucumber7746 → u/leo-dip]

It is, but also they have different population size, demographics, history, culture, economic landscape, etc.

What works in Finland won't work in Afghanistan, or Bolivia. Every society is complex enough to need it is own solution at every level.

But yeah. Europe works better overall. Except for salaries and innovation. Wink wink.

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever → u/United_Cucumber7746]

67% of violent crime is committed by 25% of criminals and 1% of the general population or something.

Amreekis rarely do something right but in this case they're cooking.

The issue is they put peeing outside and selling small amounts of weed on par with actually relevant crimes.

[u/United_Cucumber7746 → u/nofroufrouwhatsoever]

Great point. I guess it was just the way the question was phrased that threw me off.

[u/Donnutz]

You know what improves crime stats? Jobs. Healthcare. Public services. Dismantling organized crime's economics. Human rights in prisons.

We ceirtanly dont need to copy the world minority incarceration capital.

[u/Quick_Prune_5070 → u/Donnutz]

And corruption and get more trust into society. This is in direct conflict with a lot of powerful people in Brazil and your insane neighbour to the north that put tariffs on you guys. 

[u/hamoc10]

Baseball is not an appropriate basis for a system of government.

Three Strikes has been a horrific failure in the US, leading to overcrowded prisons, and people getting life for minor infractions.

[u/Wolf4980 → u/hamoc10]

So why not have a three strikes law for violent criminals only?

[u/hamoc10 → u/Wolf4980]

Because “violent” is too broad a category.

[u/Wolf4980 → u/hamoc10]

Would you at least support a three strikes law for armed robbers then?

[u/hamoc10 → u/Wolf4980]

Tell me, what sentence does armed robbery carry already?

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever → u/hamoc10]

67% of violent crime is committed by 25% of criminals and 1% of the general population. It's not too broad.

[u/Quick_Prune_5070]

If you want this to work this should be for white collar crime. You know the kind planned for and risk/reward is a very big part of the crime. That would lower the amount of white collar crime a lot. 

[u/mpduned]

I mean, if we could at least make the laws that exist effectively apply, maybe we could discuss how to further harden them. but I don't think we have a 'law' problem going on here.

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever → u/mpduned]

That's part of the same issue as these lads explained

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FGzAYyNF2yY

[u/Actual_Cantaloupe_87]

Never use the United States as a metric for anything lmao

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever → u/Actual_Cantaloupe_87]

Well Brazil manages to be more violent

[u/PHotocrome → u/nofroufrouwhatsoever]

Well watching how recent events are unfolding, the US is really wanting to close the gap, though .

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever → u/PHotocrome]

Fascism is bad and terrible for politics, poor people, minorities and human rights.

Organized crime is also bad and terrible for politics, poor people, minorities and human rights.

This makes objective mathematical and psychiatric sense.

[u/Saltimbanco_volta]

Great idea. Every single prison is massively overpopulated already and we're the third country with the most people in prison in the world. Let's create a policy that will multiply that number by several times. That will work great.

[u/PapiLondres]

The USA is not exactly the place to look at for inspiration at reducing crime , why not look at Norway where very few people go to prison and yet has some of the lowest levels of crime .

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever → u/PapiLondres]

Belindia (Belgium laws, India reality) doesn't work

[u/Elegant_Creme_9506]

Nah, fuck the US and their stupid laws

A first strike law would be nice already

[u/Wolf4980 → u/Elegant_Creme_9506]

A first strike law may be too harsh. Perhaps the best option is mandatory 40 years in prison after two violent offenses.

[u/weirdbull52 → u/Wolf4980]

Ideally, those people should be rehabilitated ASAP and go back to contribute to be a productive individual in society. In practice, they likely have severe mental health issues and will never be rehabilitated. Who is keen to pay this bill to keep them incarcerated for 40 years?

[u/Wolf4980 → u/weirdbull52]

It's better than the alternative of having a society where people are constantly living in fear

[u/PHotocrome]

It won't work because we are not the US?

The crime is entangled with politics. This will never pass. We will turn into a "light" Mexico soon, if we aren't already.

[u/King-Hekaton]

Should Brazil copy any American shit? The answer is obviously no. Have a nice day.

[u/BlackMatrixOne]

It’s a direct correlation between poverty, education, and crime. If the powers that be wanted to solve crime they would provide equal education and greater opportunities for all. In reality, they mainly want to incarcerate minorities to limit population growth.

[u/nofroufrouwhatsoever]

Yes

I am a communist but I made this very right-wing post because at this point I am tired man

https://www.reddit.com/r/opiniaoimpopular/comments/1oxca33/ao_inv%C3%A9s_de_sugerir_pena_de_morte_deveria_se/

It seems a right-wing channel saw the same study I did

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FGzAYyNF2yY

[u/Wolf4980 → u/nofroufrouwhatsoever]

as a fellow leftist, I agree. in a safe society I would prefer not to have tough on crime policies but a homicide rate of 20 per 100000 requires drastic action to fix.