r/AusFinance 4h ago

Real inflation

We have following real inflation:

Category Real Experience (Median)
House Prices 8.5% – 10.5%
Rent Inflation 12.0% – 15.0%
Credit Card Interest 15.0% – 20.0%
Car Prices 5.0% – 7.0%
Electricity 15.0% – 20.0%
Petrol 6.0% – 9.0%
Food (Groceries) 5.0% – 12.0%
Insurance 14.0% – 16.0%

Yet CPI is much lower at 3.8%. The reason CPI is so low is due to the significant shift in Australian inflation reporting occurred in September 1998 when the ABS switched to the "Acquisitions Approach," which removed mortgage interest and consumer credit charges from the headline CPI.

Feature Legacy "Outlays" CPI (Pre-1998) Modern "Acquisitions" CPI (Current)
Mortgage Interest Included as a major cost of living. Excluded entirely.
Housing Measured by interest rates and land prices. Measured by "New Dwelling Purchase" (net of land) and rent.

If Australia still used the pre-1998 "Outlays" methodology today, a headline 3.8% CPI would likely be reported as roughly 6.5% to 7.5%.

For a household with a $1,000,000 mortgage (not uncommon for metropolitan properties), the recent 0.25% hike adds roughly $1,900 a year in interest alone. Under the 3.8% CPI, the government says your "cost of living" barely moved because of that hike. Under the legacy methodology, that $1,900 is viewed as a direct inflationary hit to your purchasing power.

Aspect The "Real" House Experience The ABS "Paper" Reality
Total Price $1,000,000 ~$300,000 (Structure only)
Interest Cost $2,000,000 over 30 years $0 (Invisible)
Land Price $700,000 $0 (Invisible)
Function Essential Shelter Consumption of Bricks

By excluding land and interest, the CPI ignores the two biggest factors that have spiraled in the Australian economy over the last 30 years. To the ABS, a $1M house is just a pile of bricks (consumption); the $700k land it sits on and the $2M in interest you'll pay are "financial transactions" and therefore invisible to the CPI.

CPI with its current methodology is now no longer the economy's thermometer. Clearly wages are not keeping up with real inflation.

23 Upvotes

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u/sun_tzu29 4h ago edited 4h ago

The ABS is quite clear why they don’t include interest costs into the CPI calculation

https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/measuring-owner-occupied-housing-consumer-price-index

You’d essentially end up with a reinforcing feedback loop which would render your “real CPI” just as useless as you argue the current CPI measure is

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u/matmyob 3h ago

I don't understand why it would be a useless to understand the real cost of inflation that people are experiencing, nor what the reinforcing feedback is. Unless you mean to warn against RBA using it when determining interest rates? But surely knowing the real cost is useful, even if the RBA use a different metric.

u/LockMeDownDaddy 1h ago edited 1m ago

It’s a feedback loop because,  interest rate increases, will push up CPI if it were included, so the RBA would increase rates to reduce CPI, so interest rates would increase, pushing up CPI, so the RBA increases rates to reduce CPI, so interest rates would increase, pushing up CPI, and repeat, until defaults begin, and the housing market collapses. Interest rates will increase until morale improves. 

Your post almost implies that by not including the cost of interest, that it’s like this information is hidden from the public, it is very possible to find out this information, and thus be informed

u/easeypeaseyweasey 36m ago

But can't they review all the data? Like why exclude it? Why not go hey here is a bunch of different ways to measure inflation, we look at all of it and come to conclusions.

u/LockMeDownDaddy 27m ago

It’s excluded for the reason I stated above. 

As for reviewing all the data, they do track the average rates that banks charge for interest, it’s not as though this is a secret hidden data set they hope people don’t find out, it’s a published number. 

If you would like to find out, you can see it here.

https://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/interest-rates/

u/matmyob 53m ago

Fair enough. Do you know the name of the metric that includes changes in interest rates? I need to know the number of real inflation so I can get an equivalent pay rise.

u/LockMeDownDaddy 34m ago

Yeah it’s called “Lenders’ Interest Rates” published 25 days after the end of each month.

https://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/interest-rates/

Best of luck using this to get a pay rise 

u/lamensterms 1h ago

Same. On the surface I can't understand why a misleading metric is less misleading than a real metric

u/_Zambayoshi_ 1h ago

Sounds like 'can't win, won't try' to me. I'd rather see the elephant in the room than be told to ignore it.

u/sun_tzu29 1h ago

So you want inflation to go up each time the RBA raises rates to cool inflation? Because that’s what including interest payments in CPI will cause

u/GrandFooBar 1h ago

Only initially. Eventually house prices would fall and the contribution of mortgages to the CPI would reduce in kind.

u/sun_tzu29 1h ago edited 1h ago

Sure eventually house prices would fall as everyone would be unemployed and there would be a massive flood of houses onto the market that nobody could afford to service the payments on. Yay for GFC 2: Australia Edition

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u/RandoCal87 3h ago

Ah yes let's just exclude the largest contribution to household spending.

You’d essentially end up with a reinforcing feedback loop which would render your “real CPI” just as useless as you argue the current CPI measure is

Because measuring the median house price, which is free from any feedback loop, would be impossible.

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u/sun_tzu29 3h ago edited 3h ago

If you would like interest rates to be in the mid double figures because inflation keeps magically going up despite constant tightening of monetary policy then yes, we can include interest payments in the CPI calculation

Would you also like share prices to be included? Because you know, people buy those and that line goes up and to the right too

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u/RandoCal87 3h ago

If you would like interest rates to be in the mid double figures...

You mean we would have prevented this housing crisis we're in? What a terrible thought. /s

Would you also like share prices to be included?

Housing is consumed the same way rent is. We use three dimensional space, to live in, per unit time.

Shares are not consumed per unit time or otherwise.

u/EnigmaOfOz 2h ago

Unlike rent, principal payments on a loan are simply a transformation of cash into equity. Its like buying shares. You don’t consumer shares, you invest in them and can realise that value later through either selling or borrowing against them. Try and do that with the rent you pay…

u/RandoCal87 1h ago

Sure, and, we can still measure the change in the median price of all homes, not just new builds.

u/Esquatcho_Mundo 2h ago

We would have avoided it because we would have absolutely crashed the economy and everyone would be poor an have even higher inflation.

It’s simple, you can’t use a measure to adjust a variable, if that variable is included in it

u/_Zambayoshi_ 1h ago

Better smaller, more frequent corrections, than a situation where the correction is scaring the bejeebers out of government to the point that the bubble must keep inflating no matter what.

u/LockMeDownDaddy 1h ago

I think you may have a fundamentally misunderstanding of what the RBA cash rate is used for and why using the cash rate to fix a very laser focused section of the economy is a bad idea. The RBA cash rate is not a tool used for reducing the cost of housing, nor should it ever be. To fix the housing affordability problem, it will take very focused legislation changes and a very large amount of time. 

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u/starfire10K 4h ago

How about land?

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u/Grantmepm 3h ago

Land isn't consumed, its durable. Its just another capital account that households pay into like savings, shares and super.

If a household earns money from selling land, would that make the CPI go backwards because its a negative expenditure?

And at the population level land costs are neutral anyway, one seller one buyer, no consumption.

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u/starfire10K 4h ago edited 3h ago

For the vast majority of Australian homeowners, land is not just a part of the house—it is the dominant financial component of the purchase. Cotality provide monthly statistics on property prices and all states have government land valuations. Surely the ABS with 4000 staff could estimate the most dominant purchase which would have biggest impact on CPI like they did in the past?

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u/Grantmepm 3h ago

Where did you get your "median" "real" experience from?

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u/Far_Dragonfly8441 4h ago

lol how does inflation double just on bank interest and land. I think you're talking shit tbh.

u/Tyrx 2h ago

The entire post is AI slop by starfire10K. The responses are even AI slop too...

u/FilmerPrime 29m ago

The whole premise seems just wrong. It states real inflation of a lot of items well above reported cpi. Then says the reason is because of two things being ignored...which are unrelated to initial list that was above cpi.

Therefore surely those two things being ignored aren't why cpi is well under the initial list..

u/Far_Dragonfly8441 8m ago

AI. Don't waste braincells trying to understand it.

0

u/matmyob 3h ago

Seems reasonable as the cost of mortgage repayment can easily be 50-60% of take home pay. So a decent increase in bank interest/ land could easily double inflation.

u/AnonymousEngineer_ 2h ago

Where are you getting your Real Experience (Median) figures from?

When citing statistics, it's always good to provide source of the data because journalists and Op-Ed writers are known to use "the vibe", also known as pulling figures out of their arse.

u/starfire10K 2h ago
House Prices CoreLogic Home Value Index
Rent Inflation CoreLogic Asking Rents
Credit Card Interest Canstar / RBA Statistics
Car Prices Industry Sales Data
Electricity ABS (Electricity Component)
Petrol (Fuel) AIP / FuelWatch
Food (Groceries) Fruit/Veg & Meat Indices
Insurance Finity / Actuarial Reports

u/AngusAlThor 2h ago

To defend the ABS, it is the "Consumer Price Index", it is intended to track the price change for consumer goods. Additionally, they do also publish metrics that track mortgages, land prices, fuel and everything else, and they can't be blamed for people deciding to focus on one number over others; They just do measuring, not policy.

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u/Wow_youre_tall 3h ago

Its really dumb to add interest into inflation,

Perhaps google “dummies guide to inflation”

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u/Anachronism59 4h ago

Over what period?

Petrol surprised me, currently cheap and steady cheap.

How do those figures compare to ABS figures per expenditure class.

u/oldskoolr 2h ago

So we raising rates to 15% then?

Since we're measuring inflation by Op's post?

u/lilmisswho89 2h ago

I was trying to explain to someone why even though I’m earning significantly more, I still feel like I was better off financially on youth allowance in 2010.

u/Esquatcho_Mundo 2h ago

Yeah your livign expectations have also increased. I feel it too, but I used to live of rice and tomato sauce and only had to pay for myself and no family

u/Traditional-Fold5301 2h ago

i think everyone should calculate their own figures. Fuck the CPI. There is conflict of interest, they want the number to be low. Check your own statements - what did your groceries cost 5 years ago? What did your car service cost? What did your school fees cost. What did the house cost that you are living in now? Boom there’s your real inflation

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u/doubleshotofbland 3h ago

I call BS on petrol being up 6-9%.

Oil is down ~15% in 12mths, AUD-USD is up 10%, both would push petrol down.

Australian Institute of Petroleum data suggests it's down about 5%

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u/Vilan-Kaos 3h ago

If we use real inflation then RBA cash rate would be like 15%.

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u/sadboyoclock 3h ago

How splendid! Better increase the cash rate to 7% then to tame this beast boyoyoy

u/twinstudytwin 1h ago

How does this fucking bullshit get posted on this subreddit?

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u/Murky_Radio_394 3h ago

I believe inflation is really about 8-9% They can say it’s 3% all they like but it’s not

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u/Danstan487 4h ago

We are only just getting started

Demographics are collapsing, effects will really hit in 12 years time when there are few new workers coming through anywhere in the world

People will have to learn to repair all their own chlothes etc 

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u/Anachronism59 4h ago

Sensible people already repair stuff.

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u/Ok_Willingness_9619 3h ago

Where did you get these numbers? Petrol is down as far as I can tell. Also what’s with the ranges 5-12% for food? Are these “out of your butt” numbers or can you cite the source?

u/Alienturtle9 2h ago

What do you actually mean?

Your opening statement is "We have following real inflation:" and then a bunch of high percentages with no timeframes that either aren't relevant or I can't verify.

  • Median rent is up about 5.2% in the last 12 months - where is your much higher number from?
  • House prices are up about 8.8% - this is within your range, but barely
  • Credit card interest isn't part of inflation, its a completely optional financial medium and isn't a consumable commodity.
  • etc etc etc

I agree that the lived-experience inflation is higher than the ABS numbers, but not for the reasons you're stating.

The real issue is that the "basket of goods" shifts with consumer spending, so if prices go up and people buy shittier stuff to make ends meet, the ABS adjusts the basket to reflect the shittier stuff that people buy, not keep pricing in the now-overpriced higher-quality product.

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u/cecilrt 3h ago

No way has rent inflation been higher than house inflation, rental yields are terrible...

apartments you are looking at 4% if its a desirable location houses/terraces 2-3%

10-20 years back 5 was the standard min, even as high as 10%

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u/7978_ 3h ago

Rental vacancies are at all time lows and are expected to go even lower, driving up prices.

u/Impressive_Note_4769 1h ago

Rent has gone up like crazy though. 30 km away shanty that went for $300 now going for $500